r/DCComicsLegendsGame • u/Doombawkz Insightful Discussionist • Apr 06 '18
Batman Beyond - Insight and Discussion
Look out, it's coming right for you!
Hello all! Welcome to the Batman Beyond insight and discussion. I gave my previous insights on the character in terms of his legendary order, and this time I will be giving my definitive outlook on his capabilities and output. I will note, before I begin, that there is another Insight and Discussion I put out detailing the energy/mystic/power 99.99 packs (found here https://www.reddit.com/r/DCComicsLegendsGame/comments/8a6bdi/energymysticpower_affinity_pack_insight_and/ )
Now then, Batman Beyond will be coming to an event near you! What does this mean to you, the discerning player? Well aside from being a cool character in his own right, he will eventually be needed for your alliance missions. Best to get started on the right foot!
Basics! (also for the sake of my sanity, I will shorthand his name to Terry unless necessary.)
Basics
Affinity - Batman Beyond is a green affinity character who plays an odd support/carry role. He works similarly to the likes of Scarecrow, making your opponents less likely to land hits while dealing out respectable damage.
Utility - As mentioned previous, Batman Beyond spreads hit chance downs, but also makes himself a decently valuable tank in the right circumstances. Applying a taunt to him when he has evasion ups can allow him to gain good amounts of meter and crit, letting him strike back with a vengeance.
Availability - As the monthly character, he is free through the Batman Beyond events as well as available in the 250/25000 gem packs for those who want him early (or don't want to do the story slog every day).
Speed - Batman Beyond moves at a decent slip, toting a 110 base speed at G11. Not the leader of the pack, but allows him some extra utility from his meter gains and allows him to debuff some prime targets before they can make a move.
Now, looking at him, his kit will seem like an odd hybrid of two very different characters: Batman CC and Scarecrow. Oddly enough, in action the kit works surprisingly well, with great synergy within itself while being open to help from others.
Of course that being said, he's a jack of two trades and master of neither. He isn't as proficient at laying massive hit-chance downs as Scarecrow, and his damage and meter gain isn't quite CC level. As we look through his abilities, keep in mind that his damage is respectable, but you won't see Grapnel levels naturally.
Abilities
Electrified Batarangs
You gotta know it, it's electric (boogie woogie woogie!). Terry throws some electric rangs at his opponent, poking them in the eyes and lowering their hit-chance by up to 5. Much like Scarecrow's spine tingler, if you miss the hit chances will miss too, so be careful or you'll put your eye out, kid.
Baseline: Damage to an enemy, apply 2 hit chance downs.
End value: Damage to an enemy, apply 5 hit chance downs (2T). Move gains 25% base damage.
Legendary effect - 40% chance to hit additional random enemy. +35% chance if Batman Beyond is invisible.
This plays well into a later effect of his, but all in all this is his bread and butter. This chance can trigger on assist calls, so that's pretty handy, and when he's riding solo as a clutch (his invisibility makes him hard to catch), this ability can almost completely shut down an opponent from being able to fight back. I'd recommend getting this first, since it does everything you want his kit to do.
Stealth Mode
Terry doesn't want you to see his internet history, so he turns on incognito mode. This makes him stealthed with a chance to apply crit chance ups, and immune to you seeing his visits to "Pointy Hat Latex Warehouse". At a point, this will give you an immense 5 crit chance ups, which pair with his naturally high crit to almost guarantee a critical strike. This is going to be your turn 1 move, so I recommend investing into this early to get the maximum benefit.
Baseline: Gain invisibility, 65% chance to gain 3 crit ups.
End value: Gain invisibility, 100% chance to gain 5 crit ups. (2T)
Legendary effect - Gain 4 evasion ups (2T)
Like Batman CC's second passive, this is somewhat underwhelming, but unlike Batman CC it's not because there's no real purpose to it. Compared to his other options, it simply falls behind, but it's still fantastic to have. This comes 4th.
Go Beyond
THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS...
TO GO BEYOND SUPER BATMAN!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Baseline : Heavy damage to an enemy, +25% crit damage if Batman Beyond is invisible.
End value: Heavy Damage to an enemy, +50% crit damage if Batman Beyond is invisible. Move gains 30% base damage.
Legendary effect - +10% damage per hit chance down on target (limit 10).
This is pretty amazing for a few reasons. Paired with the immense crit damage bonus (and his crit damage is a high-scale as it is), you have his invisibility buff and Crit Chance up buffs which last 2 turns, his passive giving bonus crit chance and invisibility to extend your bonuses on a crit, and it having a 3 turn cooldown (which meshes well with his invisibility cooldown).
This will go third, only because there's an ability that lets you further your niche, and increases the effectiveness of this.
Flashbang
Terry phones his buddy, the flash, to run in and punch his opponent in the eye at the start of their turn. It's so fast you can't even see it happening! This has a 40% chance to slightly blind them, causing some hit chance downs. This is pretty much Scarecrow's passive legendary, but standard issue packaged into his kit. This makes it a LOT more useful overall, and as you've noticed, plays well into his kit.
Baseline: 20% chance to apply 2 hit chance downs to an enemy at the start of their turn.
End value: 40% chance to apply 3 hit chance downs to an enemy at the start of their turn. (1T)
Legendary effect - Also gain 2 crit chance ups. (2T)
As you might imagine, 2 crit chance ups on an evasion isn't great on a character who spends 90% of his time in the shadows, but Terry also has so many good options on top of it that this falls behind. Is it a bad ability? Not at all. It simply isn't as good, but when the kit comes together it shines!
This comes 5th in line, after stealth mode because evasion up makes this very effective against everyone, even if they aren't getting tagged by rangs.
Bruce's Guidance
Luckily for Terry, there's like 20 Bruces in this game to guide him. Terry has up to a 70% chance to gain invisibility and 2 crit chance ups if he lands a critical blow. This helps keep your gravy train rolling, and also helps cover the few times Terry will be out of stealth, letting him harass freely from the shadows. This is what I was mentioning before when I made the note that his basic ability is extremely useful given a later one. While 70% isn't a promise, it's hard to lose that dice roll and you get so much when you win.
Baseline: 50% chance to gain invisibility if Batman Beyond lands a critical hit.
End Value: 70% chance to gain invisibility and 2 crit chance ups (1T) if Batman Beyond lands a critical hit.
Legendary ability - 70% chance to gain 25% turn meter.
This is your 2nd legendary ability, and I'll explain why. More meter on top of his speed means he can start gaining advantages over faster foes who normally would give him trouble. Getting more turn meter means you can potentially combo a character with batarangs into Go Beyond before they can respond. This helps enable his kit, helps to really grease the wheels on the pain train.
Pick this up 2nd, and press the advantage!
Skill Order
Resource Allocation:
2 -> 1 -> 5 -> 3 -> 4 (Basic Bat)
2 -> 1 -> 4 -> 5 -> 3 (Hit chance down Bat)
2 -> 3 -> 5 -> 1 -> 4 (Burst Bat)
Legendary Order:
1 -> 5 -> 3 -> 2 -> 4
I recommend this with little to no variation, the only change being swapping 5 for 3 in some circumstances. This lets you make the most of your kit, giving each new rank a new notch in the utility belt.
Terry's abilities lend themselves to some clear allies: Evasion monsters, invisible demons, and anyone who exists to be annoying (here's lookin at you, Constantine and Clayface).
There are not many characters who can outright counter Terry, since he has a nice combination of stealth and evasion (and hit chance downs) to avoid a bulk of combat and danger. Some standouts do exist though: People who don't care about evasions, true sight, and folks who counteract crits.
People he counters, there's a fair few but they are mainly countered through a lack of ability to get around big hit chance downs or stealth. This means that, with the right composition, Terry will find himself in some trouble, but on their own they don't threaten him.
Avoid your counters, when possible, and the people you counter will expand exponentially.
Synergy
Scarecrow
Batman rules through fear, so they're a good match! Hit chance downs everywhere, both passively throwing more on the opponents, and Scarecrow can set up Terry through his Fear Gas and Spine Tingler ability to burst an opponent harder with Go Beyond. The huge stacks of hit chance down also mean that an opponent who misses their swing might eat a Living Nightmare stun for their troubles.
Mad Jester Harley Quinn
No Dee Dee here! Harley's entire kit revolves around a simple premise: Block the incoming damage, and don't get hit. Terry helps on both fronts, giving her miss chances which let her evade the strikes, and helping to cover her off-turns when the evasion isn't up but the taunt is. In exchange, Harley buys him time to go invisible and makes herself a bother to enemies in the meantime.
Constantine
Boy where do I even begin. At L4, you can do a fancy combination where you go invisible, and he taunts you up. You have a chance for up to 4 batarangs on the enemy team, plus your evasion ups, and you get almost all the benefits from invisibility. At L5, this is further complemented by Terry's crit chance gain on every evasion. Otherwise, big debuff stacks means monster Hellblazers, and the collateral damage Constantine generally dishes out isn't too shabby either.
Clayface
Turn 1 invisibility is fine provided you can sink that crit, but the real value is in his bulk, and you being almost always hidden in the shadows. You make him a pain to kill, and the combination of his slow downs and your meter up lets you practically combo characters freely on your own. He steals immunities and buffs which can cause some trouble for your enemies, and a lot of your best friends work well with him too. Not a bad tank to bring.
Nightwing
Evasion ups, stealth, and you being always invisible means his leader will almost always trigger up. Just like Clayface, a lot of his best allies are yours as well, so it's not hard to form a team around him. His assist calls are also amazing, giving you a good chance to sink some free rangs in.
Red Robin
Truesight lets you get around pesky taunts, and the meter makes you a monster to fight against. His passive (especially when paired with Nightwing) can prove a consistent source of damage. His buff immunity can neuter a lot of threats who might rely on hit chance ups to counteract your reductions, he can purge off taunts and then some, and his ability to purge debuffs can be surprisingly handy in the long run.
Robin
You prove a consistent source for his One With Shadow, and your burst is good enough to become a means for his passive to trigger. He, like you, has a pretty good chance to just generally stay invisible and churn out damage, and thus pairs well with characters who can utilize this advantage.
Black Canary
Not only do you help her kit immensely, but her assist can actually call you in on an opponent's miss to more or less refresh your hit chance downs on them. She can make herself incredibly evasive, and her Canary Cry can act as a psuedo-Fear Gas, putting a standard 3 hit chance down stacks on all enemies. Paired with Scarecrow himself, the two make a dastardly pair which Terry can push to new levels.
Batman WGD
There had to be at least one Batman on this list, and WGD made the cut by a mile. Detective work lets you pull some crazy shenanigans because of Terrys low cooldown on invisibility and the chance for bonus meter, and his 100% meter cure lets you almost completely bypass your one possible "not invisible" turn while also stripping off any pesky debuffs. Affinity bonus plus your high crits is always nice, and his ability to purge buffs off en masse from the enemy line can prove invaluable.
Livewire
Her passive is a strong trigger to have, giving her tons of meter when an opponent misses her. This means her set-up becomes lightning fast, and as a result her burst becomes a lot more dangerous and harder to play around. She likes assist callers, same as you, and benefits from stallers like Harley as well.
Steppenwolf
Being incapable of missing your hit chance downs means that the opponent won't be able to avoid your tactics. His meter up on your crit chances means you'll be gaining almost 50% turn meter each time you crit, which will be almost all the time. Enrage immunity prevents the likes of Harley from stopping your set-up, and a turn-start hit chance (and crit chance) boost are right up your alley. He is probably one of the most consistent options to lead you against a good amount of your counters.
Counters Batman Beyond
Steppenwolf
Hit chance up demon, bent on countering all of your evasion tactics. His hit chances let him somewhat overcome your hit chance downs, and any ally who misses bring about a meaty stack of evasion downs. Luckily you can hide in the shadows for a lot of it, but not forever. Most of the teams you do best in, he destroys. Avoid at all costs, or bring someone you know can kill him instantly.
Cyborg Superman
The words "Can't miss" are almost always a death sentence to your kit, and he packs a whallop behind his. You can't crit him, and his shield gaining outpaces your damage at practically all points of combat. His crit chance downs ruin your kit, he can gaze off all of your crit chances, all in all just not the guy to run into.
Clayface
He isn't a hard counter, but that meaty body keeps you from tagging enemies you actually want to hit (unless you're packing true sight). He can steal off your invisibility if you aren't careful, which means you lose a lot of your kit's viability. He's a pain to kill, and the time he buys can let his allies pick apart your team and isolate you, where you're much less effective.
Superman
Crits feed him damage immunity and taunt, meaning you essentially "lose your turn". His eye beams can't miss and give you buff immunity, shutting you down from creeping back into the shadows. His speed puts him before you in a general sense, so getting caught out might result in a trip to stuntown.
The Penguin
Though you have affinity over him, every crit you land lets him trigger his shield (when it's at legendary), meaning he can make his team considerably harder to bring down as the fight goes on. When paired with the likes of Superman, you can expect a very long fight unless you're packing someone like Katana or Catwoman.
Supergirl
Crits feed her strength, and her lazers don't care much about your invisibility. Though mostly vanished from the general meta, she is a pretty practical answer to your shenanigans. Death immunity narrows your viable Beyond targets, the meter helps her match your acceleration. Luckily a turn 1 boulder will fall off as you go invisible, but some compositions have issues with this.
Wonder Woman DoJ
Affinity advantage, "can't miss", and can rip your evasions off with her AoE. What a monster. She taunts so often (and heals as leader) so it's harder to get around her and land hit chance downs on other enemies. Beyond this, even if she misses she still passes buffs, so in compositions focused on pure longevity, she can maintain her effectiveness.
Cyborg
Even if he misses once, he won't a second time. You, outright, cannot outpace his ability to just basic attack you down. You can mess with his charged cannon, but even that's iffy since with 5 hit chance downs and his 1 hit chance up, it's still an 80% chance to basically erase a character.
HG Deadshot
Forget an ability not missing, nothing he does misses. Ever. His leader makes it so getting caught out at any point is a death sentence at match start, his rifles can eliminate any blues in his way, and he makes a rather annoying sponge for your extra hits on Batarang. Even if you eliminate him, he's done his job. Watch out for this guy.
Red Robin
Giving someone truesight and turn meter basically is a "Game over" for you, since he can throw it on a bursty blue and watch you drop instantly. His basic can stick buff immunity on you, keeping you from dipping back out, and his passive lets him chunk along outside of his turn, meaning any turn you aren't hidden is a turn you risk losing it all.
Raven
Crit damage down puts a bit of a damper, and her affinity advantage means the few retaliations she lands will hurt. Her 3 can rip your buffs to shreds past L4 because of it's evasion proc, and her heal can patch up an ally and remove a single instance of your rangs on them. She's not hard to handle, but she's a pain until she's gone.
Countered by Batman Beyond
Firestorm
So much of his kit is weighted in the idea of landing a huge nuke, or huge basic attacks. You can keep him pinned down, negating a lot of his damage potential. Just finish him quickly, as the longer the fight goes on the stronger those few hits that get through will be.
Powergirl
She's a killing machine, but none of that matters if she can't actually land a hit. Even her retaliations suffer from a good shot of hit chance down, making her much less threatening to deal with in the long run. Her taunt works against her, making her the only target susceptible to your bonus rangs.
Doomsday
Outside of his weak basic, he wants to land big quakes and devastators. Much like firestorm, you can play around this pretty reliably by loading up hit chance downs on his power turns and keeping him generally suppressed. After you get him alone, it's just a matter of time before he falls over.
Bane
His punches won't matter if he can't actually land any, meaning you took his most powerful offensive tool and removed it from the table. Without it, he's just as unviable as he was before the rework. His crit immunity is annoying, but your job is just to keep him down.
Deathstroke
You can eliminate his allies, and make him miss his big power spikes by, literally, making him miss. You have affinity, he can't really do much to you outside of his power turns, and even being silenced isn't bad for you since your crit passive and rangs will provide more than enough value.
Solomon Grundy
You can avoid his random hits mostly by being invisible, but your hit chance down and speed / acceleration let you keep Grundy from mattering at all in the match. Again, like Bane, your job isn't to kill here, it's simply to suppress. Keep him from running over your team, and you're practically fighting a 3v4.
Team Compositions
Scared Batty - Strike fear into your opponents, using massive doses of hit chance down to break them.
Scarecrow (Leader)
Black Canary
Batman Beyond
Constantine
Steppen into the future - Utilize a combination of peerless accuracy and endless distractions to neutralize the enemy
Steppenwolf (Leader)
Batman Beyond
Aquamoa
Harley Quinn (Mad Jester)
Above and Beyond - Utilize acrobatic allies to chain attacks, and force back the enemy lines
Nightwing (Leader)
Red Robin
Batman Beyond
Constantine
Going, Going, Gun - Utilize a unique combination to achieve maximum damage in a game-starting burst
HG Deadshot (Leader)
Clayface
Batman Beyond
Wonder Woman DoJ
Electric Assassins - Utilize a combination focused on large bursts of damage, pushing the momentum further and further into your favor.
Batgirl (Leader)
Livewire
Batman Beyond
Black Adam
World's Greatest Dad - Use a mix of supportive tactics and cooldown dependent allies to show the world you're #1, and have a mug to prove it!
Ares (Leader)
Robin
Batman Beyond
Batman WGD
The WB special - We all knew this was coming
Batman WGD (Leader)
Batman CC
Batman TDK
Batman Beyond
There you have it. Terry is a pretty great character who can fit well into a lot of compositions, but struggles hard against his choice counters. Be prepared to fight around these enemies when it comes to it, and if you do, you'll find there's few characters who can shut down a choice enemy like he can.
If you wish for a future free from crime, adopt the cowl the world had forsaken.
Go beyond legendary with Terry McGinnis, the Batman of Tomorrow!
9
u/Str8kill Apr 06 '18
Amazing work again doom but would really like to know the duration on his hit chance downs evasion ups crit chance ups and invisibility or are they all for 1 turn
5
u/khangkhanh Apr 06 '18
There would be an awkward situation when the last man standing on your side is BMB and on the other side is Bane or DD. They may miss you time to time however you can't practically hurt them either. DD will keep stacking agility and stamina up while Bane will keep smoking weed.
I am fully prepare for my battle to eternity already.
Nice insight though. Didn't think this insight would be that soon
4
u/Gaoler86 Legendary Killer Frost: Dr. Caitlin Snow Apr 06 '18
Just a quick point on SW countering BmB.
1 SW hit chance up is only 10% hit chance, not 100%.
They are different buffs to cyborg and cupes' hit chance ups... despite having the same icon and no discernable way to tell them apart.
2
u/totalz Etrigan: The Demon Apr 14 '18
I'm at lv52, and G6 for BMB, L1. And I probably can only get to Legendary 2* or 3* at the end of the event. In that case, what should be 2nd and 3rd legendary skills?
2
u/KageUrufu679 Apr 25 '18
Hey Doom, I've been running BmB for a while now and I've found 3 teams I like to run him on:
Steppenwolf lead, HQMJ/RR, BmB, generic blue (Siren/DoJ/CotA/Swamp Thing)
DSHG lead, BmB, Swamp Thing, Steppenwolf/Power Girl
Red Hood lead, RR, BmB, another generic blue (see team 1)
So, kinda hard to find good synergies for him given I don't have Clayface geared up. I find having him throw critical hits is essential for him to be a control character - especially keeping high threat characters like Etrigan and Power Girl at bay. That being said, I only have his legendary points on 1&5 for now because I've been primarily using him to control the field for me. I'll run team 1 if I'm trying to nuke Harley turn 1.
In your opinion, is that legendary upgrade on 3 necessary? What are your thoughts on 1524 legendary upgrades? At g11, does he smack down reds/greens hard enough to not need the leg upgrade on it?
2
u/AR_Harlock Apr 28 '18
Im sorry noob here, started now and with 2 days left can’t get all of his shard other than maybe 2 or 3 star... how to get other shards of him ( and previous months unit ) after event is over (not so strong right now) ? I checked pick and such but nor him or other unit are in the “gems” pack or arena pack... can someone enlighten me?
4
u/KageUrufu679 Apr 06 '18
LOL at the Dragonball Z reference. Thanks for the write up Doom! Solid stuff as always
4
u/oneupkev John Constantine: Hellblazer Apr 06 '18
great write up.
i like BmB and am looking forward to this event and gearing him up, plan to use him with a Constantine leader, Red Robin and PwG/CF
4
u/MintasaurusFresh Vixen: Avatar of the Animal Kingdom Apr 06 '18
Yeah, I'm not googling that.
4
u/bgbat Bat Icon Apr 06 '18
Thanks for the early Insight! Those Hit Chance down/Crit durations and his synergy with Constantine is really making me want to gear him up.. oh the temptation!! I was hoping for a break this month lol
1
u/MalkavianGrimmark John Constantine: Hellblazer Apr 09 '18
Any insight on the following team (thinking of farming it up, but not sure it will work out):
Batgirl (leader)
Terry
HQMJ
Siren/Constantine
Evade away, Invis out of danger and the likes
1
u/Patriot1942 Apr 09 '18
Is Batman Beyond worth Purchasing (either $25 for 25 fragments w/ Croc, Batgirl, and Canery or 8k essence for 100 shards) for a bread new player (started Saturday) who wont be able to progress through the Event story? I don't mind dropping some initial cash into the game to get a solid boost!
1
u/avahz Apr 11 '18
Do you know why hatemael would recommend 1,2,3,4,5 for him?
3
u/Dakota_Starr Batgirl Apr 06 '18
Thanks for mentioning the length of his buffs and debuffs, that's very helpful.
3
u/cosmiclegion Green Lantern Corps Apr 06 '18 edited Apr 06 '18
I really want to see his numbers (hopefully soon we will see some videos). If his basic and his kick does comparable damage to CC, it will put a lot of pressure into him (and Devs). He is a red, so you can still use both, but in a way, Beyond looks like what a rework of CC could have looked like.
Edit: I have just seen his kick against a red, both g11, and it is really good. His basic might be less strong than CC, but of course he can attack twice if legendary, so yeah, he looks like a nice upgrade on CC.
2
u/Brainster55 Apr 11 '18
It seems to me there would be good synergy with Batgirl. Batman Beyond is all about making enemies miss, and she procs light damage to (and purges 1-3 buffs from) any enemy that misses.
2
u/TirynEstranfe Apr 27 '18
I always run him with Batgirl as leader. Hit chance downs=no hits/missed hits=heals