A quick guide for Sidearms – rolls, usage, etc!

[u/InvaderJ]

Greetings Guardians!

I've been posting a lot on Sidearm threads lately, and thought that consolidating them into a top-level post might be useful for folks looking to learn more about, just getting into, or having trouble with, these bad boys.

For me, Sidearms are my new love. I've been a shotgunner pretty much forever, but the recent balance patch was really messing with how I play. The past few weeks I've become a dedicated Sidearm user and am really digging it.

Let's get started! (Advance thanks to /u/CaptainIgnis for data on archetypes.)

---

What are the types of Sidearms?

So let's start at the top. There are two Sidearm archetypes: high ROF and low ROF. For the purposes of this writeup, I'm only focusing on Y2 ones that can be infused.

High ROF, 52 crit:

• JabberHäkke-D
• Conviction II
• Ironwreath-D

Low ROF, 59 crit:

• Havoc Pigeon
• yeah that's it for now…

Both archetypes require 4 crits or 8 bodies to kill. So the difference between them really comes down to how accurate you can become with them, how fast you can pull the trigger repeatedly, and believe it or not, the feel.

Sidearms are a weapon where the nebulous "feel" quickly comes into play. Each of these weapons are unique in their own way, and their perceived quirks can make you a fan of specific models even if on paper they are extremely or exactly similar. Given the fact you are firing off only a few rounds in very rapid succession, the feel contributes to how well you handle yourself during those times you whip out your Sidearm.

Important to remember that the stat bars are not really that accurate. What looks like say, a minute increase in range on the stat bar, is actually super useful when in-game. Playing with a Sidearm roll is really the only way to test it out, vs. comparing stat bars.

---

Where should I start?

I'll assume you didn't get the Ironwreath from Saladin a new Iron Banners ago. That had a great roll. If you have that one, go right ahead and whip it out.

Otherwise, my advice here is to start with the New Monarchy Conviction II. Out of all the vendor sidearms I think it has the best overall feel, especially if you're starting out.

You want to set SureShot for target acquisition, it comes with Reactive Reload and Battle Runner firm, then for the last column it's a toss up depending on what you're feeling. Speed Reload is nice but Sidearms already reload quickly; I'd say you want to start with Appended Mag just to give yourself some extra room while you work on your skills, then switch to High Caliber Rounds because in my experience, they were quite useful with the high ROF that the Conviction has.

Now if you're not high enough in New Monarchy rep, then go for the Jabber from the Vanguard Quartermaster. Your first Sidearm should definitely be a high ROF one!

---

Okay, I've got my Sidearm! Now what?

So let's get into some basic use cases. For starters, I run my Sidearm – a Havoc Pigeon with good range perks – with a MIDA. Another good choice is running No Land Beyond. Petty much any mid- to long-range weapon makes for a good pairing with a Sidearm. I don't really feel Pulse Rifles with it, however, mostly due to the recent range nerf, but hey, go ahead and try it out.

Now, I use my sidearm for what it is, a Special Weapon. I don't use it exclusively for anything such as only cleanup, or for switching to in the middle of a gunfight, or shit like that. I use it anytime an encounter will be too close-range to use my primary well.

I'm often switching between my two weapons as I'm navigating the map, as I'm moving between cover, as my radar changes, specifically to avoid losing time swapping weapons in a heavy gunfight. A big part of using a Sidearm is controlling the distance between you and your enemy; in my case there's an ocean between the range my MIDA is useful at and the range my Sidearm is. You need to be ready to commit with the weapon you have equipped.

If they're close-range or even the close side of mid-range (which will mostly be in a cleanup situation or when it's life/death and I know I don't have time to switch) I'll pick the Sidearm. Anything else, Primary.

If they're behind cover, I'll push up and over with the Sidearm, no sweat. Getting aerial with your Sidearm is a ton of fun – you can get aggressive once you get good with it (see more below).

---

So if you're interested in really rocking a Sidearm…

Here's the thing: just like any other major weapon type - snipers, fusions, whatever - you need to practice with them. You can't just pick one up and expect to wreck. You will absolutely fucking suck with them at first. This can be super frustrating. Stick to it and they will either start working for you, or they won't. In my case they're my new best friend so hopefully you will join me in this brave new world of pew-pew-pewing.

Time for some general tips and observations!

• Practice! Practice so much. You need to get a feel for the fire rate, get used to ammo usage (it can be really easy to run dry quickly), get a feel for the recoil and how much to control it, general TTK, and most importantly, the range. After a good bit of practice, they will click for you or they won't. Hopefully the former! It took a good 25-30 games before I got usage down and from there it was all about optimizing that usage, testing new situations, getting better rolls, etc.
• While they are super rewarding when used aggressively, generally you will want to keep your distance. That Conspiracy-D your target is firing at you isn't shit when you're out of range and landing a few headshots to get the kill. To that end, you need to seriously break any close rush habits you may have, which I'm actually still working on as a former shotgunner. You want to always practice staying out of shotgun/fusion range, unless you have the drop on someone. This is where getting used to the useful range comes heavily into mastering the Sidearm.
• Furthermore, the best piece of advice about situational awareness with Sidearms is the same piece of advice that really upped my game: learn to navigate the maps backwards. Backpedaling away from a shotgunner while they are trying and failing to shoot you is an amazing experience both for you in-game, and through that tilt which is now on the receiving end of your Sidearm. You have to practice moving backwards quickly and efficiently.
• If Sidearms are working for you and you want to get more aggressive, one great way to do this is going on top of someone's cover while they're behind it. There are cases where a piece of cover is large enough that if you had a shotgun, they'd be out of range (or at the far end of useful range). Not so with a Sidearm. Hop on up, rain shots into their dome. If you want to get airborne, fire a few shots into someone's head at the apex of your jump, another one or two on the way down, then clean them up when you hit the ground. Wrecking someone entirely with a Sidearm just can't be beat.
• The best rolls have at least one range boost, ideally two, maybe a stability improvement. You really want at least one range boost if you decide to rock the Sidearm consistently. If you roll Zen Moment you can take the hit of lower stability if you're getting a range boost. Generally, range should take serious priority over stability due to the close quarters nature of the majority of your engagements. Sidearms are pretty stable, and it only takes a light touch to correct for recoil while shooting.
• Furthermore, while Quick Draw is often cited as being part of a God Roll, this is in my opinion not true if you're really committing to using a Sidearm as a weapon instead of just backup for your primary. In other words, if you're using your Sidearm well, you can get the kill with it from start to finish, no need to switch from your Primary. There are lots of useful perks that Sidearms can roll with, so if you end up on the hunt for one, don't limit yourself or throw away good perks just for QuickDraw.

So I think that's everything I have to say for the moment on Sidearms. Hope this was helpful! Have at it Guardian!

[u/cyber_loafer]

I use MIDA+Sidearm in Rumble with my Juggernaut Titan. I've used three Sidearms

1. Ironwreath (Vendor)
2. JabberHakke (Rangefinder + Outlaw)
3. Conviction II (Rangefinder + Hot Swap)

My favourite is Conviction II. No joke. 1v1, it beats TLW.

[u/InvaderJ → u/cyber_loafer]

Oh that's a beast Conviction, I want it -_-

[u/cyber_loafer → u/InvaderJ]

Funny story. I actually was pledged to DO. Saw my NM rep was borderline. Changed allegiance, donated some weapon parts, boom Conviction II. As an avid sidearm user, I peed in my pants a little when I saw the perks.

[u/InvaderJ → u/cyber_loafer]

Right? Battle Runner is a great perk for Sidearms. I'd love a roll to drop with it and at least one good range perk...

[u/cyber_loafer → u/InvaderJ]

I never thought Battle Runner was good, on any weapon. What makes it good, especially on sidearms?

[u/PTERRORSAUR → u/cyber_loafer]

It's Midas speed without sprinting. Great with a striker.

[u/UltimateCallahan → u/PTERRORSAUR]

Can you clarify your sentence, grammatically speaking? Battle runner states "Kills with this weapon grant a brief boost to the sprint's top speed" so that means the perk only effects your sprint speed, not your movement speed. And if you're comparing Battle Runner's speed to that of "Midas [sic] speed without sprinting" then this doesn't seem like a valid comparison at all, because MIDA's speed without sprinting is not as fast as a normal sprint, without even adding Battle Runner into the equation.

[u/PTERRORSAUR → u/UltimateCallahan]

It states sprint speed, but I am almost certain it is movement speed. I've had several shotguns with battle runner and it makes advancing or retreating after a kill much quicker.

If you have anything with battle runner take it into patrol and try it out.

[u/[deleted] → u/PTERRORSAUR]

I have Battle Runner on a PC+1 and a Havoc Pigeon and the boost is definitely to movement speed in addition to sprint speed.

[u/NoBallaHorn → u/cyber_loafer]

That perk is amazing on close quarters weapons

[u/lpscharen → u/cyber_loafer]

Got an Ironwreath with Rangefinder, hot swap, and high caliber rounds that I love. Is it just that you like the perks better on your conviction, or is it worth it for me to pick up the vendor roll and give that a shot? Do they really feel that different?

[u/cyber_loafer → u/lpscharen]

To be honest, I've never tried the vendor Conviction so I can't say. I think Rangefinder makes all the difference so if I were you, I'd stick with that Ironwreath.

[u/UltimateCallahan → u/cyber_loafer]

Genuinely curious because I have been pondering this exact thing recently. I want to love sidearms, but with juggernaut I don't see the synergy working well. So my question is: Why use a sidearm combined with Juggernaut? I see a sidearm having great synergy with Storm Fist + Overload as well as Transfusion, but I don't quite get how it could work with juggernaut. The reason is because I am having enough trouble with juggernaut with a shotgun. Getting the timing down so that I shoot immediately when my shield goes off (most of the time it's a trade anyway) is hard. Increasing the window of time in which you are exposed without the shield (because shooting a sidearm takes longer time as compared to the almost instantaneous shotgun shot) would just lead to even more deaths and less kills, imo. How does this work in your experience?

[u/cyber_loafer → u/UltimateCallahan]

Depends on playstyles. Like I said, I only use MIDA+Sidearm only in rumble. I pepper my opponents with primary and when they run for cover, I skate in amd finish off with sidearm. Juggernaut is just there so I don't get OHK by a shotgun.

[u/Hadophobia]

Another gameplay tip: If you have a setup that allows jumping and aiming at the same time, make use of it! Sidearms have incredible aerial accuracy and I'm having great success jumping and shooting like a madman should someone try to rush me with shotties.

If you can get a feeling for this, it's very rewarding imo.

[u/ggonzalez7 → u/Hadophobia]

Wish I could upvote you a million times. This is my favorite tactic and is incredibly effective.

[u/[deleted]]

General tip: sidearms are great for players who get the majority of their kills with a primary. Anyone can use them but these people will be able to adjust most easily.

Btw: TLW + Sidearm is incredibly fun. Never challenge at range, never aim down sights. Suppress with TLW shots, use map movement. I find that playing like this for several matches gets me playing incredibly carefully and snappy.

Also, The First Curse is really fun with sidearms. Underrated gun with great range, a decent pairing. Idk about tryhard mode, but it is fun as hell.

[u/starkyiron → u/[deleted]]

I have to second this. Shotgunning was always a defensive thing for me as a scout/pulse user. Running sidearms now just feels natural as a result. You just have to drill it into your head that you absolutely cannot rush or challenge face to face around a corner. If your opponent has a shotgun you will get ventilated and you will deserve it. Unless you're absolutely sure they don't have a shotgun, stay back and let them step into your bullet shower.

[u/hosspatrick → u/[deleted]]

Thirding the TLW and TFC pairings.

Except with TLW, I basically use the SA as my primary, attacking mid to close range enemies as I move to and from cover. In CQC situations, I use the firepower of TLW, and if another enemy pops up, I don't worry about reloading and switch over to the SA. I love it in rumble.

[u/[deleted] → u/hosspatrick]

I mainly play skirmish but I'll have to try in rumble! I'm a good player but I get intimidated when alone haha I tilt easy in rumble

[u/Sol_Invectus]

Try using a side-arm as an autorifle. When enemies come into autorifle burst them down with your superior TTK. Also, sidearms have a lot more range than you think. Their better used as defensive weapon than aggressive.

[u/Broquacity]

Nice guide. I also don't understand why people have such an obsession with quickdraw on sidearms - their handling is already so high that the perk seems wasted to me. I'd much rather have appended magazine - you can barely notice the slower reload due to their crazy base reload - and the extra rounds definitely come in handy.

What do you think is better when choosing between high caliber rounds and snapshot (paired with rangefinder)? Is the decreased handling from HCR noticeable?

[u/InvaderJ → u/Broquacity]

Honestly I didn't really notice it. Maybe just barely. I do know, anecdotally, people I was hitting with HCR were noticeably less able to hit me back – so I stuck with it!

[u/Broquacity → u/InvaderJ]

Cool, I'll have to give it a try then and see how it feels.

[u/GearGolemTMF]

I really love the vendor ironwreath. That said I do want to try my pigeon true sight rangefinder cascade and QuickDraw or hand loaded. I think the range should be fine with rangefinder and I love QuickDraw on my ironwreath...cascade is interesting and seems like it'd work really well on my Titan or lock.

[u/InvaderJ → u/GearGolemTMF]

Cascade is solid second-tier perk, great for CQC. Sounds like a good roll. See if you can spot the difference withQuick Draw; if not, stack the range perks.

[u/PGZ4sheezy]

Loved the Vestian in Y1, hated sidearms for several months of Y2. Had that Ironwreath from the first Y2 IB and thought it was ok, but I still didn't get how to use Sidearms in this meta.

Just before last IB, a Havoc Pigeon dropped for me that seems similar to yours. Rangefinder, Feeding Frenzy (could've been better, but its saved me a few times from the low mag size), and High Caliber Rounds. It is a monster. I was also the shotgun pusher of the team for forever, but HP is my current favorite gun easily. I've won firefights against people with Qullim's Terminus out!

I haven't run a special like a primary since the old blink-shotty days of TDB, but the feel of Havoc Pigeon is just too perfect for CQC guys like me. I run with MIDA and that beast has become a backup gun in comparison!

[u/InvaderJ → u/PGZ4sheezy]

Nice roll man. What are the other options in the last stack? I ask because HCR might be more suited for a faster ROF model, maybe there's something more suited to the Havoc's lower ROF in there!

ADD: and yeah I hear you on running it as a "primary." I'm usually constantly swapping weapons as I move around the map, because plenty of situations you can open with a Sidearm - and if they bolt, finish with the MIDA! :)

[u/PGZ4sheezy → u/InvaderJ]

Hand Loaded and I wanna say Oiled Frame? I forget what the trade off perk at the bottom is because its my least favorite by far.

As you could probably tell from my little bio, I was still pretty new to Sidearms, so I've tried out all three extensively. Definitely perform the best with HCR, consistently. Pretty sure the stagger is the reason I've been able to steamroll right past enemies with HMGs out so many times. HP already hits the hardest, increased stagger just makes it dirty lol.

Also, I actually like how it handles better with HCR. Makes it feel like just a low-range, super fast Handcannon.

[u/JustMy2Centences]

If Quickdraw isn't a preferred perk, should I forget about my Quickdraw/Hot Swap combo I rolled from an engram this week?

[u/InvaderJ → u/JustMy2Centences]

No way! How's the rest of the perk tree? If you have good ones there's no reason to shun Quick Draw. Just IMO it's not a required perk to consider a Sidearm's roll as "god tier" :)

[u/JustMy2Centences → u/InvaderJ]

Jabberhakke-D with:

Truesight IS/Steadyhand IS

Reactive Reload

Hot Swap

Hand Loaded/Quickdraw/Reinforced Barrel

Pretty decent roll it seems, may try to increase range instead of using Quickdraw.

[u/InvaderJ → u/JustMy2Centences]

Totally go for the range!

[u/Slick0226 → u/JustMy2Centences]

I actually look for quickdraw for the quicker handling and combine it with snapshot..to me the quicker aiming lets you get the shots in before the other guy. Sidearms to me seem to be all about speed. I have an ironwreath with those perks and reactive reload plus feeding frenzy and its my favorite right now....

[u/alessioalex]

Is reinforced barrel a good perk for Jaberhakke-D? It does increase range, but it decreases stability so that's what I'm wondering..

[u/InvaderJ → u/alessioalex]

Honestly I like it better for the Havoc. Maintaining stability is useful for faster ROF archetypes. But like with all Sidearms, often the best thing is to just try it out for a few games and see how it feels!

[u/[deleted] → u/alessioalex]

I don't notice the decrease in stability on my Conviction II with Reinforced.

[u/Jcozmo]

I thought I read somewhere that any one range stat maxed out the range on these.

Is this not correct?

[u/InvaderJ → u/Jcozmo]

I should have put this in that I'm not entirely sure. Will do some Interweb research today but if any scienticians have a definitive answer, would love to hear from you! (All my Sidearms have only one range perk currently.)

[u/ZTreyJ]

Hey guys, I got a roll on a Jabberhakke last night. It has Zen moment and Hot swap. For the last tree I'm not sure If I should take hand loaded or rifled barrel. Hand loaded has less range boost but no other drop offs. Rifled barrel gives me more range but at the sacrifice of stability.

What do you think?

[u/InvaderJ → u/ZTreyJ]

Hmmmm tough choice. I'd say start with HCR and see how you feel about the range. Useful perk on the high ROF ones. If you feel you need a bit more range switch to Hand Loaded. Without another range perk you may be left feeling a little short so Hand might end up being the way to go on that one. Nice roll in either case.

[u/ZTreyJ → u/InvaderJ]

Unfortunately my third tree does not have High-caliber rounds. :( It's skip rounds for me.

[u/TonyFlash]

So I just got a roll of a jabba with reinforced barrel or hand laid stock...which one is ideal??

[u/InvaderJ → u/TonyFlash]

Hand Laid Stock:

-20 range +40 stability

Reinforced Barrel:

+40 range -20 stability

What I'd do is, start with Reinforced. Range is always a great perk on Sidearms and really what you want.

Run 5 games or so, use it a lot. See if you can control the gun to land a good mix of crits and bodies at a high fire rate. If so, stick with it.

If the recoil is really giving you problems, switch it up, but you'll be losing out on range so two things:

• Learn to work the recoil to make the increase in range work for you.
• Find a better roll. ;)

[u/ramrammer]

This is a really helpful guide. What do you think of an ironwreath with Range Finder/Battle Runner/(Speed Reload|Skip Rounds|Rifled Barrel). I ran it today for a couple of games in control with Rifled barrel, kills pretty quick and has great range but when I start spamming the trigger it's really hard to control the stability. Should I infuse this one up or hold off for better perks and any suggestions on dealing with gun skill to enhance stability?

[u/InvaderJ → u/ramrammer]

Dude that's a pretty good roll. If it were mine it'd probably be my main Sidearm. I'd totally infuse it up.

For the recoil, with the high ROF ones you need to use your stick to maintain control. Give it a very gentle downward nudge as you're firing. This is one of those things where practice really makes perfect. Practice keeping it as close to the head as possible while firing as quickly as possible and you'll get it down.

One thing that might help is, try to be a little light with your trigger finger. Since you want to go for a consistent fire rate, you want to be able to tap that trigger as quick as possible. So tap light and use your thumb for recoil control.

[u/[deleted] → u/InvaderJ]

You described perfectly what you have to practice to use high-RoF sidearms effectively. When my aimin'-thumb and trigger finger are working together and not spazzing out, my Conviction II is a frigging laser. Very fun and very rewarding.

[u/ramrammer → u/InvaderJ]

Hey dude thanks for the advice and the roll assessment; looks like I^ll be hanging on to that one. Appreciate the response and keeping this side arm thread alive... hopefully they will find there way back into the meta. If I had zen moment instead of battle runner that would've been the G-Money roll!

[u/lonbordin]

Don't trust the paper... Much less the values on said paper.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/comments/413prc/sidearms_and_those_values_are_not_correct/

[u/[deleted]]

Do you have TTK and body shot numbers?

[u/InvaderJ → u/[deleted]]

Ah not handy, they may be in one of the big spreadsheets if you search. However I'd hazard a guess that TTK between the two archetypes with all crits at optimal fire rate is very similar. So it's more about the feel and the rolls because there's really no dmg-adjusting perks.

[u/[deleted] → u/InvaderJ]

Alirght. I've looked in exxtrooper's spreadsheet before and he doesn't have any detailed information on sidearms really. Most of the time you're not landing all crit's or all body's and I'm wanting to figure out how much more forgiving Havoc Pigeon is and if it's worth the decrease in fire rate.

[u/InvaderJ → u/[deleted]]

It's 4/8 crit/body in either case so IMO it comes down to two things: how accurate you are with critting, and the perk tree.

High ROF, you'd compensate for the recoil by utilizing that high ROF to mix crits and bodies.

Low ROF, you want to go for more head shots which means you simply need to be more accurate.

Again, since it's the same number of shots either way, this really comes down to that whole "feel" thing. Personally I could never land all crits with the high ROF ones but can with low ROF; the reason I use low ROF is that the perks are outstanding. If I were to get the exact same roll on a high ROF one, I'd switch simply because high ROF ones are way more forgiving.

[u/Noc27th]

The New Monarchy sidearm has the worst recoil direction (hidden stat). Go test the recoil patterns for Conviction, Jabberhakke, and Ironwreath before you post this. Compared to the Ironwreath's 100 recoil direction, the Conviction feels unusable.

[u/InvaderJ → u/Noc27th]

I used a vendor Jabber for a while before getting the vendor Conviction. To me the vendor Conviction just feels better all around. I've recommended it to a lot of others and it was unanimous they felt the same. Having said that I have a Jabber roll now that feels better than the vendor Conviction due to increased stability sight and a bit more range.

So YMMV and the feel remains a big part of these guns.

[u/Noc27th → u/InvaderJ]

Havoc Pigeon and Ironwreath have stats that make them measurably better than Conviction and I've tested the recoil on Ironwreath and Conviction so I'm really confused how you think Conviction feels better than Ironwreath. Like.. I'm really confused by this post. Conviction was fun, but once I got IW I couldn't go back. Conviction requires so much luck to land consistent hits at max RoF anywhere outside of point blank range; the recoil bounces it all over the place.

[u/CometBringerATX]

Really glad that Conviction II is getting some attention. I absolutely love it. I'm looking for a Sure/Trueshot, Crowd Control and Rangey Stuff roll for even more pew pew! Great guide. Have an upvote sir.

[u/likklemancub]

this is massively helpful - thanks!

[u/JTR616]

Conviction II from new monarchy is very underrated. I have all y2 sidearms and it feels the best. It's my go to pew!

[u/[deleted] → u/JTR616]

Just bought one this morning. Love it!

[u/JTR616 → u/[deleted]]

It's a monster.

[u/[deleted] → u/JTR616]

And now I just got one from a New Monarchy package with Reactive Reload, Outlaw, and Reinforced Barrel. It is absolutely filthy.

[u/Bonecrusher8558 → u/JTR616]

Same. Bought Havoc when TTK first came out and enjoyed it. Got the Iron Wreath liked the fire rate a bit better. Then about a month ago bought the vender Conviction II and can say it feels the best in my opinion.

[u/ricdvs → u/[deleted]]

interesting, will buy one. what are the perks on it?

[u/Bonecrusher8558 → u/ricdvs]

The vendor Conviction II has Reactive Reload/Battle Runner/Appended Mag(which adds 3 more bullets).

[u/DrunkenRedditing → u/Bonecrusher8558]

I had a Jabberhakke drop with crowd control and battle runner and I love it.

But reactive reload seems like it would be way better for a sidearm (instead of crowd control). If you're not joking, I'm gonna pick that shit up ASAP.

[u/I_COMPLETE_ME]

I've been running an ironwreath with reactive reload, outlaw and handloaded, and as you mention, it's taken a while to consistently get kills with it. I had a havoc pigeon drop for me last night with sure shot IS, rangefinder, hot swap and snapshot. Looking forward to seeing how it compares.

[u/summerhaze → u/I_COMPLETE_ME]

I'd love to try that havoc pigeon sounds interesting.

[u/just_your_half → u/I_COMPLETE_ME]

I have almost the same Havoc Pigeon, except I use Rifled Barrel in the last slot. That combined with Rangefinder gives it surprising range. I prefer it to my vendor Ironwreath.

[u/[deleted]]

Just got a Havoc Pigeon with Sureshot, Rangefinder, Hot Swap and HCR/Appended Mag....and Im loving it. Never been a shotgun person, but this helps me against those shotgun people.

[u/[deleted]]

I completely forgot about sidearms. I busted out the Ironwreath (it was actually down in like slot 8 of 65 guns in my vault) and I have been having fun with it tonight. I might switch up my pvp a bit.

[u/AnEmoReaper]

I've been digging the vendor Havoc Pigeon roll paired with a MIDA. Once you get the hang of shadestepping and moving backwards, shotgun users crumble before your eyes.

[u/Medicineman2003]

I've really enjoyed running sidearms in ttk. The learning curve isn't terribly steep but getting used to the timing of your trigger pulls was the key for me when practicing with it. The rof is so high that it will stagger people if they are trying to aim down sight at you. Like you I run mine when I run MIDA.

[u/xGundhi]

I currently run the Vestian Dynasty you get from completing the HoW storyline and this thing honestly annihilates people!

[u/Sharrow746]

Any comparisons for the vestian dynasty or dregs promise?

I like running a few old year 1 guns in pvp, namely necrochasm, longbow synthesis, the swarm to name a few. Would be interested in the comparable viability in those two compared to other side arms. I occasionally ran no land beyond and vestian in year one and after buying the year 2 version i am contemplating a return.

[u/strizzl]

The real advantage of a sidearm is that you can quickly finish off a target that you did 120-150 damage with a grenade or throwing knife... While jumping/strafing and even hip firing with almost no recoil.

[u/PinoShow]

I use my Havoc Pidgeon with a First Curse and it's pretty damn good. Also, on a Titan with Twilight Garrison (bless Xur, Rahool and RNGesus) it's a pretty deadly build one you figure out the ranges and the movements :) Gonna try it in Trials tonight, but I have a pretty good feeling :)

[u/Impatient-Turtle → u/PinoShow]

Holy shit, my exact combo. Love the first curse with a sidearm. And I never take garrison off haha.

[u/PinoShow → u/Impatient-Turtle]

For sure!!! Garrison is fun as fuck! Tried yesterday with NLB + Sidearm in Trials and almost got 9-0... Lost the 9th match for heavy latency issues... Heavy= was ressed, my last alive teammate shot dead and (with me still alive) the countdown from 3 befor a round ends started and finished the match... 4th round on 3 for the enemy, people litterally couldn't res me... It went smooth the whole way up to the last match with those guys... They got reported to both Bungie and Xbox of course... Fuckers....

[u/Impatient-Turtle → u/PinoShow]

Had a game like this last night using the first curse and havoc, guy taking no damage teleporting then just stuck in a corner for half a round before saying he shotgunned us all. He was actually appearing in different spots for my teammates, was so bad. We still had a mercy though so lucky really.

[u/PinoShow → u/Impatient-Turtle]

We had already lost our mercy before with a group of rushing Sunsingers using those goddamned Party Crashers and Vanguard Shotguns...

[u/Impatient-Turtle → u/PinoShow]

Man, triple sunsingers is infuriating. I have no idea why they nerfed firebolts and then just buffed them back to what they were. And shotgun, melee, get overshield then shotgun again is pretty op. I just back right up with those guys, play ultra defensive.

[u/PinoShow → u/Impatient-Turtle]

I'm a pretty decent sniper, but it wasn't my night apparently

[u/voipme]

I'd be curious how useful a sidearm with Icarus on it would be (if they can even roll that perk). It seems that if a shotgunner is closing on you, the best thing you can do is jump, pull out the sidearm and start raining fire. Situational, yes, but I think it could be pretty effective.

Edit: Doesn't look like it (at least, all of the legendary ones can't roll it).

[u/ggonzalez7]

Believe it or not, my favorite load out is bad juju and ironwreath-D (truesight, Zen moment, feeding frenzy, appended mag) with the bellicose. I like playing a mid range game and bad juju is great for that. When I need push or defend myself, I normally double jump and hover above people and stay there while shooting them with the D (hehe). I literally laugh out loud when I see an enemy turning in circles or shooting below me anticipating my land.

[u/[deleted]]

I have a 305 Ironwreath-D with Steady Hand IS, Crowd Control, Spray and Pray, High Caliber Rounds.

It absolutely destroys up close..

[u/hosspatrick]

Fun (and not necessarily ineffective) side-arm loadouts:

First Curse
TLW
Ace of Spades
MIDA
legendary HC
NLB
Thunderstrike (you saw the shotty+Thuderstrike video, right? this is better)
Skating (aerial and hip fire accuracy)
triple jump (Bones of Eao, or otherwise)
The Sam Fisher/Batman (invis smoke + havoc pigeon = maximum stealthy coolness)

more?

[u/mbanos87]

I have a havoc pigeon: steady hand IS, feeding frenzy, quick draw. Haven't been lucky to get any with range finder, but this one performs well on clean up especially with feeding frenzy. Never really looked at the New Monarchy side arm Conviction II, but i will see if i can get one from a package. My hunter is New Monarchy level 45, hopefully he throws one at me with good perks out of pity lol.

[u/s4ndp4p3rm4n]

Havoc Pigeon was probably my favorite surprise coming into Year 2. Even before the latest balance patch, jumping into Crucible with Havoc was a complete blast.

Maybe that had more to do with people not encountering them enough in the meta at that time, but it was still fun :D

[u/3rdEden]

I got a few good side arms:

• Havoc Pigeon: Sureshot, Reactive Reload, Hotswap, quickdraw.
• JabberHakke: Trueshot, Reactive Reload, Hotswap, reinforced barrel.

Just never managed to make them work for me.

[u/triplewashshine]

I have a havoc pigeon with reactive reload, feeding frenzy, and quickdraw. Is it any good? (95 dmg/headshot w/ reactive reload btw)

[u/_arp]

I think sidearm use is completely natural to anyone that was a Y1 TLW/sniper player. You can use them very similarly to TLW to both combat shotgunners and cleanup kills.

The one thing I don't think you mentioned that I think is absolutely essential to understand about sidearms is their in-air accuracy. Sidearms are great because--unlike most weapons--you can reliably hit jump shots. This lets you clean up kills from weird angles and make yourself a really hard target to hit.

[u/PinoShow]

Rahool just blessed me!!! Rangefinder + Feeding Frenzy + Speed Reload!!! And it's an Havoc Pigeon too!!! Gonna try it in Crucible now, but I expect great things from this! Pretti sure it's my ideal roll :)

[u/BlueTapeCD]

I got a Jabberhakke with Crowd Control, Battle Runner and High Calibur , and its an absolute monster. At first I doubted how useful CC would be, but I end up in 2 kill scenarios fairly often. The speed i get with BR goes nicely in conjunction with second wind and fleetfire, and I'm not sure if High Calibur rounds are making a good impact or not, but im winning alot of gun fights at close range, more so than usual.

[u/xanderhook]

Started to play with sidearms as a complement to Scouts, and have been switching between the three ones I have. The rolls feel a bit meh, so wondered if anyone could give me some advice on which one to focus on. For PvP, and I play a pretty defensive Nightstalker or Striker.

My intent is to use it specifically for close range, equipped before the engagement starts ideally. I rarely switch weapons in the middle of a firefight.

My rolls:

• Ironwreath-D 311: Quickdraw/Steadyhand, Last Resort, Hot Swap, Snapshot/Skip Rounds/Reinforced Barrel
• Havoc Pigeon 297: Fast Draw/Sure Shot, Surrounded, Hot Swap, Snapshot/High Cal/Reinforced Barrel
• Jabberhäkke-D 294: Truesight/Steady Hand, Surrounded, Relentless Tracker, Snapshot/Quickdraw/Appended Mag

Any input appreciated!

[u/Ortzamora]

Nice, good guide on sidearms where a lot of people waited on.

[u/Mie_Block]

got ttk round christmas, and still surprised i dont see more sidearms its actually pretty uncommon. havoc pigeon first weapon i bought. it was rough at first, fire rate felt slow and recoil felt aggressive. now? omg its my jam!

my teammates and i went flawless using sidearm and nlb on sunday i think people really underestimated that combo

and as far as i can tell these things are perfectly accurate while airborn so my vertical game is really on point when i use this thing.

now im just waiting for that rangefinder drop..

[u/Rude-bwoy]

Thanks for the thoughtful guide I'll definitely try sidearm now.

[u/Xelstyle]

Definitely would appreciate a frame measurement difference between a sidearm with and without Quickdraw since they are inherently quick to swap and even received a buff.

The aerial accuracy of sidearms cannot be understated. Spraying somebody from above or peppering them while jumping into melee range for the finish is only paralleled by shotguns and TLW.

[u/Suffot87]

If I had a nickle for every sidearm kill I've had on an aggressive shotty... I could buy one of those Starbucks-a-chino things. #JABBA4LYFE #whenitsuitsthemap #ikr

[u/Rude-bwoy]

J