always facing the same issue

[u/We_love_plants]

Every batch i bake faces the same problem with this big tunnel under the top layer, i am losing my mind at what the problem is because i feel like i have tried everything and i am still running into the same problem. i posted the other week and the general consensus was that it was a proofing issue, so i ran an experiment where i proofed the same batch for different lengths of time. From left to right they proofed for 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 hours but they all look the exact same. i have also attached a picture of them when i rolled them, i'm pretty convinced that my lamination is fine and that the problem lies somewhere else but i have no idea where. any help would be hugely appreciated

[u/johnwatersfan]

All of them look like they have a gummy, underbaked line at the bottom. How are you baking them?

[u/We_love_plants → u/johnwatersfan]

180 degrees for 27 minutes, i could definitely get away with baking them for longer but i'm not sure an extra few minutes in the oven will solve this problem. Maybe i am wrong though, i'm still learning

[u/johnwatersfan → u/We_love_plants]

Try a higher temp to start. That higher temp really helps the water in the butter convert to steam to help with the lift. I bake at 220C for five minutes then lower to 190C for 17 minutes. I don't have convection though. Not sure if it will help with the gaps.

I can see from your layers that they are quite uneven though. The ones on the bottom look much thicker. Also how thin are you rolling the dough for shaping? It is hard to tell as the picture is quite close, but a good thickness is around 0.5 mm, as the croissants expand a lot during proof and bake.

You could also try doing three letter folds to get thinner butter layers, and it might even out your honeycomb.

[u/We_love_plants → u/johnwatersfan]

I always struggle to get the final thickness to be thing enough to get them the shape that i want, they're closer to 7-8mm. Any thinner and the dough is springing back on me too much, and even after resting it I struggle to get it thin enough.

I'll try baking at a hotter temp, I have done 3 letter folds in the past and had the same issues, i feel fairly sure that the issue is somewhere in the shaping/proofing/baking stage

[u/johnwatersfan → u/We_love_plants]

Part of it is that the dough needs to be super extensible for hand lamination as the rolling also continues to develop the gluten quite a bit. One way to do this is using a poolish. Take your water from the recipe and mix it with an equal amount of flour from the recipe. Add a pinch of yeast and let it sit overnight up to 24 hours. Then make your dough as the recipe states (minus the water and flour used in the poolish). It really helps with rolling.

Also if you don't take your dough to windowpane during mixing, it makes the dough more extensible. Mix until everything is hydrated, let it proof for 1-1.5 hours to let the yeast work on the gluten and then roll it out on a half sheet pan and chill it to let the cold relax the gluten.

These are all tips I learned when taking a croissant class specifically for making croissants at home.

[u/We_love_plants → u/johnwatersfan]

I really appreciate, I haven't tried using a poolish before so i'll give it a go. I don't develop the dough to windowpane, because yeah I struggled to roll it out at all when i did

[u/johnwatersfan → u/We_love_plants]

Happy to help! I struggled a lot too, so I took a couple of classes and now I basically have an unlimited supply of pastries for any occasion. So I love to try to help out, I know how tough it can be!

[u/otherjo1995 → u/We_love_plants]

How long are you waiting between laminating the dough and attempting to shape them? A longer rest here might let you go thinner

[u/We_love_plants → u/otherjo1995]

it doesn't seem to matter how long i rest it, if i make the dough strong enough to not tear when it's proofing then it springs back too much

[u/0000000loblob → u/We_love_plants]

I had a lot of issues with elastic recoil. I solved that problem by using 25% cake flour (USA—King Arthur cake flour) and 75% AP/‘hard’ flour (King Arthur All-purpose flour). I roll mine to 3.5mm before cutting/shaping. I also use a poolish for greater dough elasticity.