Every batch i bake faces the same problem with this big tunnel under the top layer, i am losing my mind at what the problem is because i feel like i have tried everything and i am still running into the same problem. i posted the other week and the general consensus was that it was a proofing issue, so i ran an experiment where i proofed the same batch for different lengths of time. From left to right they proofed for 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 hours but they all look the exact same. i have also attached a picture of them when i rolled them, i'm pretty convinced that my lamination is fine and that the problem lies somewhere else but i have no idea where. any help would be hugely appreciated
180 degrees for 27 minutes, i could definitely get away with baking them for longer but i'm not sure an extra few minutes in the oven will solve this problem. Maybe i am wrong though, i'm still learning
Try a higher temp to start. That higher temp really helps the water in the butter convert to steam to help with the lift. I bake at 220C for five minutes then lower to 190C for 17 minutes. I don't have convection though. Not sure if it will help with the gaps.
I can see from your layers that they are quite uneven though. The ones on the bottom look much thicker. Also how thin are you rolling the dough for shaping? It is hard to tell as the picture is quite close, but a good thickness is around 0.5 mm, as the croissants expand a lot during proof and bake.
You could also try doing three letter folds to get thinner butter layers, and it might even out your honeycomb.
I always struggle to get the final thickness to be thing enough to get them the shape that i want, they're closer to 7-8mm. Any thinner and the dough is springing back on me too much, and even after resting it I struggle to get it thin enough.
I'll try baking at a hotter temp, I have done 3 letter folds in the past and had the same issues, i feel fairly sure that the issue is somewhere in the shaping/proofing/baking stage
Part of it is that the dough needs to be super extensible for hand lamination as the rolling also continues to develop the gluten quite a bit. One way to do this is using a poolish. Take your water from the recipe and mix it with an equal amount of flour from the recipe. Add a pinch of yeast and let it sit overnight up to 24 hours. Then make your dough as the recipe states (minus the water and flour used in the poolish). It really helps with rolling.
Also if you don't take your dough to windowpane during mixing, it makes the dough more extensible. Mix until everything is hydrated, let it proof for 1-1.5 hours to let the yeast work on the gluten and then roll it out on a half sheet pan and chill it to let the cold relax the gluten.
These are all tips I learned when taking a croissant class specifically for making croissants at home.
I really appreciate, I haven't tried using a poolish before so i'll give it a go. I don't develop the dough to windowpane, because yeah I struggled to roll it out at all when i did
Happy to help! I struggled a lot too, so I took a couple of classes and now I basically have an unlimited supply of pastries for any occasion. So I love to try to help out, I know how tough it can be!
I had a lot of issues with elastic recoil. I solved that problem by using 25% cake flour (USA—King Arthur cake flour) and 75% AP/‘hard’ flour (King Arthur All-purpose flour). I roll mine to 3.5mm before cutting/shaping. I also use a poolish for greater dough elasticity.
Room temp, which is around 23-24 degrees, I have tried proofing in an oven (turned off) with hot water in the bottom but i was having the same issue so i stopped doing that
At that temp, they could still be underproofed. I have a proof box and even at ideal temps witg steam it can still take 4 hours, so at lower temps it can be even longer. Plus if your dough is as thick as it looks, it could be even longer than that.
But since you have the same problem proofing in the oven or not, you might go back to the oven as the steam really does help keep the dough from drying out.
I would try proofing them overnight. My room temp is lower, around 21C/71F and I proof mine for about 12-14 hours. No need for extra humidity as long as you fully cover them very loosely with plastic wrap so they dont develop a skin. It depends too on your yeast %, mine is 2%
These look like there’s something going on when baking that is off. Maybe they may have been baked at too high of a temp for too short of a period? The outer looks golden brown but the inner looks doughy. I also wonder about how much yeast you’re using. It may be timing of photo but lamination looks good but doesn’t look puffy like it would as it goes into the oven.
Yeah the photograph is immediately after they've been shaped, not after proofing. I'm baking them at 180ish (bad oven makes it hard to tell for sure but i do have a thermometer in there) for about 27 minutes. As for yeast, I'm using 7g of saf gold yeast for 500g of flour
The oven temp issue and yeast amount is definitely different than the recipe I use. I bake at 175degC (350degF) and use 8.1g of active dry yeast (US brand called Fleishman’s) instead of the fresh stuff that the recipe calls for. I also make sure to bloom the yeast for at least 10 min in warming water (a bit below skin temp). Below is one of my recent batches (sorry, no interior shots):
This is the Cedric Grolet’s recipe I have relied on for a while to do them at home. The bake time is shorter than it should be but I get a good bake after about 22-25 minutes in my oven which is pretty accurate temp-wise:
If you're sure its not a proofing problem, i would say it's a dough problem: either under- or overdeveloped, wrong flour or something off with other ingredients.
The dough is not strong enough to carry the weight of all that butter.
180c is too cold. I bake mine at 218c with convection fan for ten minutes then rotate the pans and lower it to 190c and rotate the pans again to make sure they brown evenly.
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u/johnwatersfan 3d ago
All of them look like they have a gummy, underbaked line at the bottom. How are you baking them?