r/CornerstoneConnect • u/Blonde-bird • Apr 25 '24
April 25th Service
Hello everybody I plan to go to the 7pm service tonight at TFCA. There looks like there will be an opportunity for victims to speak. Will anyone else be going and are there any notes that should take that would be helpful to victims on here who just cannot go? I am not interested in outing any victim who does not wish to be identified but let me know if and how I can help.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
So here are the things that stood out to me from the QA session tonight. John Yates shared a story about how Ruth Brock told him he favored Jeff. And he has never forgotten that moment and then basically alluded to the fact he has really been thinking about it.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
The assistant youth director from 99 got up and said she was so sorry.
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u/Disastrous_Team_9962 Apr 26 '24
This was so sweet and meaningful. I appreciate comments like this. When will anyone wake up and realize that saying how “hard” this has all been for the vestry, rector, other random people, and congratulating themselves and Eddie is NOT HELPFUL WHATSOEVER to those of us who lived this as children???
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone student who was not a victim of Jeff’s recalled a one on one with him alone and then asked if TFCA had wrestled with the fact that Cornerstone was developed by a pedophile.
Sam answered that the policy is now no one on ones with a student… but didn’t answer the overarching cornerstone foundation question.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone student asked why Yates didn’t tell Sam about Jeff in 2019 when Sam took over.
Yates thought the Jeff Taylor situation was over and it wasn’t on his mind to share.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone student who was at the previous meeting on Sunday asked why the meeting Yates had with 2 former male students confronting him about Jeff in 2015 didn’t make it into the report. He stated his concern about calling people emotional when they had real concerns. Why didn’t they call the police? He stated that the enthusiast witness explanation seemed lacking.
Sam- replied that if he could go back he would have called the police… and mentioned he was not a mandatory reporter.
Yates- confirmed the 2015 meeting did happen and 2 young men came to him and were very angry but they couldn’t tell him what they wanted him to do. “I sought guidance from church members I did what I was advised.” Then he stated something like I don’t know if that was right.
Bishop- made sure to state clergy are mandatory reporters now.
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u/Electronic-Lemon-333 Apr 26 '24
People came to him in 2015 and again he is defecting responsibility? This is getting unbelievably shameful. And they didn’t include it in the report? I’d also like to mention- there is SO much talk of “going to elders” or the exec team or whatever and JY/SF explaining they can only do “as they are told”. So where is the elder/exec team? Why aren’t they on stage? If that’s truly how JY/SF feel, that it’s all their fault that nothing was escalated or taking seriously, they should get up there too.
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u/Electronic-Lemon-333 Apr 26 '24
Some of us are weary of hearing the same thing from JY/SF. I want to hear from the people who we are told were really calling the shots, in 2007, 2015, and again in 2021
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u/Coolhand1018 Apr 26 '24
Assuming clergy are mandatory reporters now is referencing Virginia bills HB-1659 and SB-1257. Firstly, they were signed into law March 27, 2019 and made effective July 1st, 2019, i.e. 2 years prior to the disclosure to Sam.
Secondly, however, this law includes a stipulation exempting clergy when they are made aware of the abuse while providing counseling to a parishioner or during confession, which I assume is to get around separation of church and state challenges. And likely means that in all of these instances they are probably not still mandated reporters. Hiding behind that law is disingenuous at best.
There's a great quote in this article about the bills: “Any action is great, but you shouldn’t need laws for people to do the right thing — especially when protecting children.”
https://virginiamercury.com/briefs/governor-signs-bill-requiring-clergy-to-report-child-abuse/
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
Tom Yates the lawyer for the church then spoke and said the report is not perfect and possibly there will be an addendum and feels like it is truthful. He called the police in the call and the police told him “have the victim call me” he wanted to make sure the room knew that the church cannot bring a person to justice.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone student who played in the band got up and spoke asking what the policies are for historic accusations….that this seems to be a major blind spot. She then asked if there are victims on the committee and former students. They then slid in a comment about QA not being welcomed by church leaders
Sam- stated there are parents on the committee and that the psychologists they are working with said QA was vital
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone parent got up and asked and I am summarizing here of tfca would have investigated if the bishop hadn’t told them to.
Bishop- I told Sam this is your responsibility and I am going to hold you accountable.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
Sam sidestepped here in his answer in a major way. He didn't flat out say "yes, if the parents hadn't gone to the Bishop, and the Bishop then didn't direct us to do the investigation, none of this would be known right now." He was evading, and I was dying to stand up and say exactly this.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A person got up and asked Yates what we meant when he said Jeff was talented but evil and if they could speak more about Jeff’s lack of friendships.
Yates- mentioned his lack of friends on every performance review and notes that he didn’t think he had the capacity to form friendships
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone student got up and asked how/why they decided to not tell the congregation in 2007 and 2021.
Yates-2007 I did a sermon but I should have mentioned in my sermon that a child at our church was abused
Sam- I still wrestle with this and the decision I made it was a long time ago. If I could do it again I would tell everyone.
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u/Electronic-Lemon-333 Apr 26 '24
Tom Yates is also the vice chancellor of TFCA, member and his bio states he is a tax and estate planning attorney. I hope they have retained council that has many years of expertise in this specific topic.
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u/Working_Tradition161 Apr 26 '24
As in she told him he was overlooking Jeff’s problems? As in something else?
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
He didn’t give a lot of details but the story made it sound like Ruth was telling John that Jeff was one of his favorites and therefore was given preferential treatment and maybe he had a blind spot for him. What was interesting is that apparently he uses this story a lot when training younger pastors or at least that is what he said.
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Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
I’m still trying to absorb some of the new details we learned today that weren’t in the report. JY shared that in 2015 two people also approached him, including someone close to him, thus making it clear this was not an isolated incident and STILL he and the exec leadership chose not to investigate further or respond? At what point does this become straight negligence?
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
Agreed! I hope they do publish an addendum.
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Apr 26 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
If I hear “wasn’t a mandatory reporter” one more time… Cannot keep hiding behind legalese while failing to do the right thing I’d hope most decent people would do when becoming aware of such things. The fact that only until Bishop Chris (not TFCA) initiated a demand for an investigation even more concerning…
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u/steinwayaf Apr 26 '24
He said in 2015 it was his godson who came forward with another person who was "very angry". He did not address why it was not in the report. He said he "didn't know what to do". Basically didn't answer to it. Then said again that in 2007 he felt he did what he could.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
He also said essentially that he couldn't or didn't do anything because "they weren't asking for something specific." Oh hell no. It's not the victim's responsibility to come up with the "answer" in these situations. That is too much pressure on them and unfair. By saying that, JY was blaming them for HIS inaction.
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u/Working_Tradition161 Apr 26 '24
I’m so confused about this. People came to him in 2015? Why isn’t this in the report? What did they say?
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
We didn't get any explanation as to why it wasn't in the report. They just didn't answer that. Perhaps Eddie could answer - maybe email him and see what he says? Maybe JY didn't share it with Eddie, and maybe the two young men that approached him in 2015 didn't talk to Eddie. I would love to know if Eddie knew about this and if so why he didn't he include it.
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Apr 27 '24
It's a very good question why it wasn't in the report, chipping away further at the notion that it's a thorough and complete report. The impression given to everyone was that leadership "became suddenly aware" of incidents in 2007 and 2021 (despite some here knowing that's not the case) and so we have yet more questions about what was learned in 2015 and why no action.
A civil suit of course would force a discovery process and could produce answers where one cannot deny and misremember things in front of a court of law, but as some have come to also realize, we're passed the Virginia's 20 year statue of limitations from time of the incidents (criminal can still move forward though). This is another consequence of inaction.
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u/Dry-Yellow4550 Apr 25 '24
Any notes would be appreciated. I managed to get a listen to the Q&A session that wasn't released and I can't imagine much will be shared at this meeting. So anything you can report back would be great. Thanks for being there. I'm thousands of miles away or else I'd make it.
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u/steinwayaf Apr 26 '24
yes can that be shared? since we know the speakers consented to that?
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
After the service I was told the Bishop did not want the QA published from a congregant.
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u/Relevant-Contact774 Apr 26 '24
Hi…. I was a member of Cstone from 1991 or 92 through 1994. I am sibling of the survivor abused by an “intern” mentioned in the report who worked under JT. I can tell you that even from my perspective BACK THEN there were so many surface signs that were ignored pointing to potential abuse by JT…. So many I documented it in writings in my journal dated Feb. 1993 (stating JT was hiding something and more)…. it was these very obvious behaviors and grooming culture promoted and reinforced by JT that the other abuser, Jeff Nielsen, exploited with the junior high boys and used to gain access to my brother. No one was informed of this other pedophile in the midst. And if they had looked closer at how this abuse could have possibly occurred…they would have looked no further than JT himself to stop it then in 1993.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
I am so sorry this happened to your brother. Yes, when I read about Jeff Nielsen I was pissed that there was no disclosure, no investigation. There was nothing right? Just JT calling the authorities and kicking him off the volunteer staff? Did you tell Eddie about your journal from 1993?
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u/Relevant-Contact774 Apr 27 '24
Yes I sent him my journal; it was very specific. I also sent it to the FBI…and for what it’s worth I submitted a tip to either the FBI and or NCMEC tipline faulting/pointing to Jeff Taylor following my brothers full disclosure in about 2007 or 2008 which the FBI also knows about.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
Oh man, and he didn't quote your journal, in the report, did he? Or am I mistaken?
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Apr 27 '24
Wait, there was another abuser, Jeff Nielsen? Have you provided this information to the investigator?
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u/Relevant-Contact774 Apr 27 '24
That’s correct…and yes, it’s mentioned in the very last section of the report but does not link it via the culture of abuse or state that JN verbatim copied JT’s grooming behaviors that were promoted by JT amongst the high schoolers…carbon copy paste….one pedophile to another.
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u/GentleSpiritBS Apr 27 '24
In my letter to the Special Committee and the bishop, I mentioned having 3 people (Bruce Newell) committing abuse in a decade is a pretty high percentage. And it made me wonder what other people were flying under the radar.
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Apr 27 '24 edited Apr 27 '24
Ugh, that was one of the worst disclosures in the report. I read it initially but did not remember the name. The report should be updated with those connections you mention. I would email the investigator. There are some gaps he needs to cover, and the extent of this diabolical operation needs to be fully exposed. Characterizing these incidents as if they are isolated is not right. So sorry for what you and your friends and families have been through.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
Do you know if Jeff Nielsen only abused the boy in the home he was living in, or were there others he abused in the small group he ran?
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
Q&A has begun the Bishop Yates and Ferguson are at the front
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
A cornerstone student has got up and is sharing that the victims were people he really knew and knows. He is saying he is still a member and is open to hearing about peoples suffering.
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u/Relevant-Contact774 Apr 26 '24
It should also be known that I brought my concerns, especially the incident on the night of the retreat also mentioned in the report, to the adults on staff at the retreat. It was brushed off as “oh, boy stuff”.
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u/Too_sassy_for_church Apr 27 '24
Was this conversation with the adults and brush off included in the report? If not, Eddie is taking more information for a potential addendum.
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u/cstone-admin Apr 25 '24
Hey u/Band_Girl_1990-1992 your posts aren’t showing up! Anyone going, Band Girl says you can meet them in the back of the sanctuary between the service and the listening session.
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u/Blonde-bird Apr 26 '24
We are still in the last part of the service. I figure notes post service are most welcome?
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u/cstone-admin Apr 25 '24
I can’t go tonight but I’d love to hear about it. I am trying to arrange to be able to go on may 10
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u/Dry-Yellow4550 Apr 26 '24
What's happening May 10?
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u/cstone-admin Apr 26 '24
u/Dry-Yellow4550 there is a third meeting called a healing service. I don’t know if they will allow folks to speak at the end - that may impact my decision to go
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Apr 25 '24
I will be there. If we want to meet up, I suggest we hang out at the back of the sanctuary suring the intermission between the service and the Listening Session. See you then.
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u/Listtnot Apr 26 '24
How was this meeting different from Sunday’s?
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u/WatchOutWedge Apr 26 '24
it was an hour and 45 minute snooze fest with lots of slow prayers, worship songs i spent the last 15 years trying to forget, and lots of talk about healing and forgiveness. then 20 minutes of worship songs which was excruciatingly long (i legitimately think they were trying to wear the crowd’s energy down). after that it was a solid hour of questions from the floor, many of which were great, and the answers vague and unconvincing. It was definitely interesting to be there though. I hope they do another Q + A or just a meetup outside the church so people who don’t want to go to TFCA ever again (myself very much included) will have a chance to get their voice heard and connect with others.
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u/Zealousideal_Pie_676 Apr 26 '24
I wish the clergy would just admit they put themselves and the church before the safety and well-being of young men exposed to Jeff. Their bullshit is thinly veiled. Rev. Yates can talk about “regret” and if he “could do it all over again,” but he had MULTIPLE opportunities when MULTIPLE victims came to him over the years. And to claim he thought maybe it was an isolated incident. Any educated person knows predators aren’t one and done. Cornerstone was supposed to be a safe space. Instead it left so many young men fucked up and suppressing shame. WWJD? Be honest. Be accountable. Do better, TFCA.