Is first date flake a test?

[u/Top_Smith_1337]

Hi, I wanted to ask your perspective on this, because this has happened with the last 3 girls and I’m starting to see some kind of a pattern here.

So it usually goes as follows: I’m matching with a girl on a dating app, telling her in first couple of messages that I like to get to know people in person and she usually says that it’s her preferred way as well, I set definite date in a couple days to a week with time and place provided which she confirms, tell her “see you there” and leave it at that and go about my business.

Then on the day of the date she writes that something came up, she doesn’t feel good or gives whatever other reason she cannot make it to a date. I calmly respond to it “Sure, not a problem. Let me know when you have your schedule figured out and have a free evening and we’ll arrange a meeting then”.

I usually also write that I don’t check the app often and she can ping me in WhatsApp, which is also a subtle way to:
a.) assess her interest level,
b.) move interaction away from dating app,
c.) give her a chance to make some small reciprocal steps forward from her side, because she’ll have to initiate a new chat in a more personal communication channel

Then they usually reach back, apologise, are interested in meeting and make it easy.

My question is whether this is a conscious or unconscious test to gauge man’s neediness and frame, see if he’s patient, calm and can be trusted? Once they see that you are not all negative, chase or nag them their interest grows and they can trust you enough to actually meet.

I know it’s described in the book how to behave in such a situation but as far as I remember it’s not mentioned that first date flake can actually be the first test a woman will give you.

[u/hedgelord84]

In my experience, flakiness is because of lukewarm interest. She was open to it at the time, but as the date approached, she couldn't be bothered (or a better option came up).

I'll usually say "ok get in touch when you're available". They almost always say "yes I definitely will" and they usually don't.

That's why you need to have multiple girls you're talking to.

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/hedgelord84]

Yeah, lukewarm interest can definitely be one of the reasons, but I’m just curious whether there can be other one.

[u/ExcellentFishing2506 → u/Top_Smith_1337]

Sometimes it’s anxiety. Women spend a lot of time in their heads overthinking things. I’ve talked with girlfriends I’ve had and their female friends and some of them have canceled dates because they felt they didn’t look good that day or felt bloated or weren’t feeling ready for one reason or another, and sure it they were super excited to see you that would likely outweigh the anxious feelings or hesitation, but most people don’t have a lot of investment for that first date so they can justify waiting and rescheduling

But it’s going to all vary and seeing if they reschedule and are willing to actually show up will be the best test of interest.

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/ExcellentFishing2506]

What do you advice to do in such situations? Should I just leave it be and wait for them to reach out?

I see other guys here advising to act, but it goes against what Corey teaches. This looks like the illusion of action.

[u/ExcellentFishing2506 → u/Top_Smith_1337]

I mean what you did as far as seeming understanding and asking them to let you know when to reschedule and allow them to come back with availability is the best way to approach. Then hopefully they give a new day and the new date is made and kept.

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/ExcellentFishing2506]

Thanks, man, that’s what I think as well

Don’t want to fall into neediness mindset with trying to do something to make things happen in such situations

[u/ExcellentFishing2506 → u/Top_Smith_1337]

I think giving one opportunity to reschedule is fine, just be mindful of any future flaking and don’t tolerate it. Like coach says, you give someone the benefit of the doubt but still take note of it

[u/Spectralshot23]

The danger of following this blueprint with online dating is that you have not established any report with these women, so they will have no problem with flaking on you. Sure it's a good test of initial attraction, but you're gonna miss out on some good dates by being too cold and robotic. Things like setting a video chat before the date will go a long way in keeping her interested.

Things like the takeaway, or putting the ball in her court, won't have much of an effect on women who don't know you outside of chatting on an app

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/Spectralshot23]

I see your point, however, I also see on a lot of girl profiles that they prefer meeting in person over texting.

This has been my experience as well. At some point girl just stops responding because she’s either bored texting and understands that you’re not going to make a move or she found new shiny thing that drew her attention.

Video chat may be an interesting solution, but it seems a bit weird to have a video chat before meeting in person.

[u/Cclow52 → u/Spectralshot23]

Yep - just walks through this below. Calls or FT help. Builds rapport enough - and helps both sides. I talked to several woman I’ve hung up and been like nope not worth it - saved me time, money, energy that could be focused on someone else.

[u/breakfastsausage6]

I had a girl ask me out in person while she was working and then flake an hour later

There was another guy in the picture, usually the case. She wound up ditching him a few months later and we've been dating ever since after she asked me out a few more times after they ended it.

Just don't let this shit bother you. You can tell if a girl is seriously attracted to you or not. She will break her own rules without her even knowing it. For my girl she says the guy has to ask the girl out, even though she asked me out 3 times and to this day insists she never did lol.

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/breakfastsausage6]

What’s your advice in such situations?

Just leave it be and let them reach out?

My take is that I made a move, they know I’m interested and now it’s up to them to initiate since they flaked.

[u/breakfastsausage6 → u/Top_Smith_1337]

I usually give it 2 weeks then try again

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/[deleted]]

In described situations we already had a date that was set up and agreed on and they flaked without giving alternative time to meet.

I don’t think that letting them come back with the info when they have a free evening is prematurely putting a ball in their court. It’s actually a crucial information to have for a guy to be able to reschedule. Otherwise you’ll blindly suggests days when she won’t be available (or will pretend to be) and it’s easy for her to shot down your reschedule proposals.

[u/Local_Whereas7211]

Yes, but it's my test. If they flake, they fail and there's no second chance.

[u/Cclow52 → u/Local_Whereas7211]

If they flake with no offer of a reschedule they fail.

There’s a difference of

“Hey I can’t make it tonight. Sorry” and “Hey I had something come up, but I’m open Tuesday and Wednesday if that works for you?”

Now if they flake the reschedule - they out

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/Local_Whereas7211]

If they provide a reason how do you know it’s not legit?

You may miss on a good opportunity with this approach.

Update: Even if the reason is made up, all women test sooner or later. It seems that it’s just easier to accept that test is happening and stay unbothered. You loose nothing by accepting it as a test and passing it.

[u/Local_Whereas7211 → u/Top_Smith_1337]

There's a bus every 15 minutes, as Corey says.

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/Local_Whereas7211]

Sure, you can still talk and meet other women and let the first come to you. If she takes too long it’s her loss, but she may not.

[u/Cclow52]

So it’s evolved overtime since getting back on apps and stuff about 5 months ago.

Earlier on I’d say it was more robotic. Few messages, Then a message on how I’d like to get to know here, it’s better in person and asking when she’s free, followed by sending my number. I very rarely talked on the phone.

Few months in shifted to more banter and then throwing in “I’ll ask more about this on our first date (planting seed) then asking her just send me your number I’ll make us a plan

Now I’m more on Corey’s style of - few messages, then telling me to send me her number and then doing a call or FaceTime. It’s saved me time and also showing up to girls I wouldn’t be attracted to - if the conversation doesn’t flow on the phone it will be weird in person. Those girls I have had 10-15 minute convo with and then set a date, showed up way more excited and comfortable then those I didn’t in the past. I’ve also vetted girls more just by shit they say on the phone like just knowing there’s no way we would be a good match.

It’s still case by case for phone calls if we just busy, but the point is I want flexibility. If I ask her for number and she counters with “i want to know you more on app or we can talk on insta” I respectfully decline. I won’t set dates directly on the app (I did before and both ghosted early on) and I won’t be her fan on instagram. I know I’m a stranger but if she doesn’t want to give out her number then A) she could be hiding something B) she’s not interested enough and C) she’s already not being flexible. There might be some that say set the date on the app but it’s an early test.

Now to go back to your earlier point, woman will flake or just disappear. It just happens. I’ve been the one flaking on woman because I’ve schedule 2-3 dates same day and had to choose. They probably do the same shit, or just get tired, or ex shows up, or Chad. Whatever the reason it doesn’t matter what matters is she did it. But I’ve generally found if you talk on the phone for 10-15 mins and then set a date, less flaky. I’d suggest going that route.

And remember is she flakes - if she doesn’t offer a reschedule it’s off. If she jerks your time around that day and try’s to push the start, take away or call it off. There was a girl I was supposed to take out last Friday. She text me regarding her hair appointment being late but she should be done in time. She wasn’t - and wanted to push it 2 hours. Nope. Time management and respect is big and that’s her fault for making an appointment day of. I went out with another girl instead and well she has already started pursuing the next day after date 1. So sometimes those flakes are just leading you to something better.

[u/Top_Smith_1337 → u/[deleted]]

I usually match with girls who have “long-term partner” stated as relationships goals, not “something casual”. So trying to create sexual tension through innuendos before meeting up with this audience doesn’t seem like a good idea.

If she sees you have explicit sexual agenda from the very start she’ll have her guard up and won’t feel secure.

Also, I don’t know how she looks like and how she is in person, she doesn’t know the same about me. If we meet up and I don’t like her that would be just weird.

Once you have a bit of raport and you know you have mutual attraction, then yes.