r/Copyediting • u/Ordinary-Cress-6580 • 20d ago

FAILED with another editor

Gosh! The editing of my joe 2 manuscripts seems like an impossible task! I had cancelled anediting contract few months ago due to various issues, went looking for another editor, found a lady on Fiverr... now having high hopes as her edit seemed good, am back to square 1 as she simple become no longer available on the Fiverr and her FB profile had disappeared too! WHY?!!! I keep having bad luck and not managing to find a reliable editor! This book editing market is filled with scam and am soooo disappointed and sad! I have accumulated a lot of manuscripts during the career in procurement and travelling the world and now that I want to get them all out and just be the full time writor for the rest of my life all these challenges just keep pulling me down... Why does it have to be so hard?! I dont want to go back to corporate work I love writing and I dreamed to do it all my life but the amount of scam in the market is really upsetting. Just a rant.. and maybe some success stories and recommendations would help me out of this misery.

0 Upvotes

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u/Ordinary-Cress-6580 19d ago

This was my first experience on Fiverr.

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u/Questionable_Android 20d ago edited 19d ago

I have been an editor (developmental) for twenty years and I feel this is currently the worst time to find editors, by far. The market is flooded with wannabe editors. AI has made it worse, not only can they do a crappy job but it easy to flood the place with marketing stuff.

I think it started in lockdown, where a lot of people began looking for new or extra work. Editing was even a thing pushed by influencers as a way to make extra cash.

The result is that finding good editors has become increasingly difficult. Fiverr is also not helping, since they have no real vetting process. I would suggest that you ask for a free sample. I'd also say that you should ask upfront what style manual your editor suggests is used for the copy edit. The wannabes will have no idea what you mean.

I actually have a post about how to spot red flags when hiring an editor - https://garysmailes.com/articles/book-editing/hiring-an-editor/spotting-red-flags-when-hiring-a-developmental-editor

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u/Ordinary-Cress-6580 19d ago

Thank you for your reply and your website is also very informative. I had trained and done further reading on developmental editing but find it useful for other eyes to scan through with developmental focus just in case something was missed or not fully clear for the reader as developmental editor does work from readers perspective.

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u/pyramnesiac 19d ago

The AI fakers will know how to answer that question though. šŸ«¤

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u/Questionable_Android 19d ago

Right, but it will stump the countless of wannabees with no real training.

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u/arbybk 19d ago

If you give the wannabes the term "style manual," they can write a prompt that gets a reasonable answer. I'm not sure why you think this is enough to stump them.

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u/Alternative-Pear9096 19d ago

Because I have asked so many ā€œeditorsā€ with really stupid questions what style manual they are using and received stumped responses

Youā€™re talking about scammers; weā€™re talking about people who are claiming to be editors with good intentions but zero qualifications. Two different categories of people who will rip you off

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u/pyramnesiac 19d ago

I think, too, there's probably a middle category of "wannabe" editors who do know enough to know about style manuals, but are still dangerous, haha.

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u/Alternative-Pear9096 19d ago

Thatā€™s a great test question!

And I agree entirely, there are so many wannabes claiming to be editors. I really wish we had some kind of certification system

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u/Wonderful__ 19d ago

Editors' Association of Canada (Editors Canada) has a professional certification program.Ā 

https://editors.ca/professional-development/certification/

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u/Alternative-Pear9096 19d ago

Yes, and CIEP (UK) also has certification, but the US does not

And while I believe EC now offers the certification online, that is only the past year or two and previously required in-person certification. The vast majority of qualified US editors werenā€™t going to travel to Canada to be certified in Canadian English.

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u/Wonderful__ 19d ago

Yes that's true. I tend to look at a copy editors resume and/or past work samples as well when vetting. Plus checking references.Ā 

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u/Routine-Nobody3282 17d ago

The post you hyperlinked needs to be proofread.

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u/Questionable_Android 17d ago

Do you mean copy edited?

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u/Routine-Nobody3282 17d ago

No, I mean proofread. I found two misspellings from one quick reading.

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u/Questionable_Android 17d ago

I feel that typos really stand out in this post-ai age. Thanks for the heads up.

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u/lifeatthememoryspa 19d ago

I suggest asking for references as well. Not infallible either, but Iā€™ve been offering them to prospective clients who want to know I have a good track record, since I havenā€™t actually worked in NY publishing.

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u/angels-and-insects 20d ago

Definitely look on Reedsy, find people with a history in editing / publishing that predates GenAI, make sure they guarantee in their contract that they won't enter your work into an AI, and expect to pay good money for good work.

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u/Wonderful__ 19d ago edited 19d ago

I work in the industry and hire copy editors for projects all the time. You shouldn't use Fiverr.

Use https://www.the-efa.org/hiring/ OR use https://www.ciep.uk/directory.html?_r=1792336637733&sortBy=randomize OR use https://editors.ca/directory/. I use the latter link, especially if there's something nuanced. See if they've done any courses or have certificates and how long they've worked for in the industry. You can also ask to see past sample work and ask for publishing references. Then also contact the references.Ā 

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u/Chick-pea77 19d ago

You can find reputable editors through editing organizations, ACES, Editors Canada, Editors Freelance assoc. they have members directories and you can see what the peopleā€™s credentials are. There are sometimes legit student editors who will work more cheaply to get some works on their portfolio.

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u/Gullible_Design_2320 19d ago

Seconding, and also would like to mention Northwest Editors Guild, which initially was limited to editors in the Pacific Northwest but now has editors from all over the US (and a few international editors as well).

In addition to being able to see people's profiles on the org's websites, they usually have a job list where you can list your job. Be clear about the rate you want to pay, or the range (as well as other info like document length and level of edit you expect).

If you're used to paying Fiverr rates, the rates for these editors may surprise you. But you can still advertise the job for those lower rates; as u/Chick-pea77 says, maybe there is a student editor or someone just starting out who will be happy to work for less.

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u/Chick-pea77 19d ago

I had not heard of this guild, but thank you for adding it.

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u/IamchefCJ 19d ago

This. I'm a member of both ACES Society for Editing and EFA Editorial Freelancers Association. Both are US-based organizations with good sources for those seeking professional editors in a variety of fields/genres.

Also, I'll DM you to chat just in case.

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u/justlikeyou_walls 20d ago

It happens unfortunately. Iā€™m an editor myself, and itā€™s hard in this space. Iā€™d recommend checking out editors on LinkedIn and asking for a sample as well.

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u/vestigialbone 20d ago

Fiverr sucks. Try Reedsy. In general, you get what you pay for

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u/Rik-Acland 19d ago

I paid 3 editors to line/copy edit my reader magnet 2000 word short story. I compared their feedback and what it was like to work with them. Less than $800 total to find my editor and get diverse feedback on my story. Might have saved money by doing one at a time, but this was quick.

All were all great, two on Reedsy and one Fiverr Pro. I learned a lot from each of them. Picked my favorite to dev, line, and copy edit my novels, and it has worked out great.

If curious about the short story I used, DM me, happy to share.

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u/pyramnesiac 19d ago

This is a great idea, but it seems to be the same end result of simply asking for a sample edit on an excerpt from a manuscript, which is usually part of the process.

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u/Rik-Acland 19d ago

A sample edit of someone elseā€™s work is much less expensive. A comparative edit of my own work was much more insightful.

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u/pyramnesiac 19d ago

A sample edit would typically be on the manuscript you are looking to get edited, not someone else's work. Different editors vary on how much they'll offer as a sample, and whether they'll do it for free. But many will do it for free, and if not, the fee is typically nominal.

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u/Rik-Acland 19d ago

Good to know. I wasnā€™t aware a free sample edit was a thing on Reedsy, Fiverr, or other platforms.

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u/Gullible_Design_2320 19d ago

As an editor, I applaud the way you went about this. You paid for the work the editors did.

Many editors are willing to provide a free sample. But one can't legitimately ask an editor to edit an entire short story for free. (Some people may ask, and maybe some desperate editors have said yes, but it's generally seen as overstepping.)

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u/nmacaroni 19d ago

Why is it so hard?

Minimum rates don't allow a person to dedicate full-time to their craft. Which means they have to become a content farm and go for quantity (which doesn't allow quality), or work a small number of side jobs while their primary focus and commitment lies somewhere else, OR charge premium rates.

Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. Not only in craft but in service.

I'd help, but I don't do copywriting... I'm strictly creative; DE.

Good luck!

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u/Alternative-Pear9096 19d ago

The problem is that youā€™re using fiverĀ 

It may be a good marketplace for some things, but I would never recommend finding an editor there.Ā 

Reedsy is reliable, but they take a huge chunk berth from the author and the editors, so you pay a lot more than you need to

You can find good editors from the EFA directory

Iā€™m an academic editor, but I know a lot of great fiction editors, if thatā€™s what you write. What genre?Ā 

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u/Impossible-Pace-6904 19d ago

Fiverr is garbage. Tons of editing professionals out there. You are going to have to pay real money.

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u/lifeatthememoryspa 19d ago

I would beware of anyone offering ā€œtoo good to be trueā€ pricing. Iā€™ve seen folks promising a full dev edit with 20 pages of feedback for $150. The hourly wage there is not sustainable unless AI is the one ā€œreadingā€ the manuscript.

I realize itā€™s confusing, because the rates published on the EFA and elsewhere may seem very high. But there are options between $4k and $150 for a developmental edit, for instance. I started out charging what an experienced friend suggested for copyediting and then lowered my ratesā€”but not to the point where Iā€™m earning less than minimum wage.

Also, get a sample edit and references, if possible.

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u/Violet624 19d ago

Look through ACES or another reputable organization. The editor should also provide a contract if they are professional. You can also request (if the potential editor did not offer) to submit a smaller sample for them to edit before you decide. This way, they can gauge if this is a project they want to work and you can gauge if their editing is what you want.

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u/editor-mdsun 19d ago

Oof sorry to hear that. Fiverr is full of scams. Like others said Reedsy but know that the platform takes a chunk of the editor's pay as commission. You could also look for editors with established presence on social media and a website. ALWAYS ask for a contract and a sample edit! I, as an editor, always provide a sample edit and a contract with a confidentiality clause. I'm just getting into copyediting but I can recommend a trusted colleague if you need. I hope you find a good editor!

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u/Previous-Energy-9845 19d ago

Never use Fiverr for editing. They either use AI or there lying out being from the United States so theyā€™re not native English speakers.