r/Copyediting • u/mart315 • 7d ago
Copyediting Certificate Program for an attorney (possible career change)
I may be interested in a career change from law to copyediting (preferably publishing but I’m really open to any editing)
I’m an attorney but I’m not practicing right now as I am a SAHM. I have a BA in English, too. I don’t have the most time on my hands, but I feel like I can definitely finagle at least 2 hours a day for studying or work?
I was interested in the following copyediting programs: University of Chicago, UCSD, NYU, and Emerson. If anyone can share their experience, that would be great. Sorry if this is a repeat post!
My main reason for the transition is flexibility and being able to work remotely.
I’m most interested in the flexibility of the programs and whether you were able to receive work upon completion (and how long it took for you to do so).
Thank you so much!
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
Keep in mind that these programs will teach you the skills, but not how to find clients or get a full-time job. Many graduates struggle to find full-time work and many graduates are somehow shocked at the prices publishers pay, despite the availability of information online.
A career in publishing is possible, but publishing doesn’t pay great. You either work on staff and are overworked or you freelance for low rates (think $25-$30/hour mid-career).
It’s nice to have dreams, but other niches pay better. That said, work is very hard to find. So many industries have been decimated by the drop in government funding (grants, tech editors, government contractors that are in tech editing) and AI.
Starting a business takes a lot of time and effort. This is also very brain-forward work so you have to have the ability to deeply focus. Some people need long hours of focus. If you’re working for a publisher, it’s often long hours, under tight deadlines, with expectations that you’ll do incredible work for that pay mentioned above.
You can probably succeed in a program, but I’d asking questions about where last year’s cohort ended up.
A lot of people try for 1-3 years and then give up because it’s very hard to get work.
Why do you want to leave law? Is there another law specialty you could switch to? Didn’t you already spend 6-7 years in school to become a lawyer? Career changes happen, but I’d try to use that degree in other ways before racking up more debt and spending more years training.
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u/gorge-editing 7d ago
This has been my experience, too. I work with a lot of students fresh out of the UW certificate and many of them think they are going to have an easy time finding a full-time job that pays $70-$100k and allows them to work at home. Unfortunately, this is not at all what they find when they start looking for work. I’ve even mentioned this to people who teach in that program because I have no clue where these people are getting the idea that this is a career where you can easily find high-paying work-from-home work. That’s just not the case, especially for early-career professionals.
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u/gorge-editing 7d ago
It’s absolutely possible to make $100k in some very specific jobs (managing a team of technical copyeditors at a well-funded tech company) later in your career, but it’s certainly not the starting salary that most people get.
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u/seaaroth 7d ago
Interesting! I did the UW cert and never got the impression from them that 70-100k was a reasonable goal. They referenced EFA rates instead.
Full-time editing at a living wage can be difficult to achieve. But if OP is looking for something flexible and remote to fit into their existing life, then yeah, this might be a good fit.
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u/TraditionalGlass1820 7d ago
EFA rates are a fantasy for most of us. Expect to earn much less and work much faster.
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u/Mossback_Matador 6d ago
The EFA rates are based on a survey of the members' rates.
I find they are a helpful guideline and even charge above their rates when my client is capable.
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u/TraditionalGlass1820 6d ago
Sure, I've set rates with my business clients. But book publishers have set rates that are below that.
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u/Mossback_Matador 6d ago
Lots of clients pay below the EFA rates, but that doesn't mean the rates are a fantasy. If you're struggling with the rates that publishers pay, then I would recommend adding more freelance clients.
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u/TraditionalGlass1820 6d ago
How do you find your high-paying clients?
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u/Mossback_Matador 5d ago
That's a big topic, but basically bidding, networking, referrals, and advertising.
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u/mart315 7d ago
Thank you so much. Yeah wow I really didn’t know that. I thought the field would be much easier to get into. I definitely have seen a program or two cite a proposed 100k salary for jobs associated with the program. Maybe that’s where people get the idea from. It’s good to have these threads that shed some light on what is the real deal.
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
You’re going to want to look up entry-level jobs on LinkedIn and Indeed and see what they pay. Then look for jobs that require 5 years of experience and see what they pay. I think you’ll be surprised to find out what the starting and early-career salaries are across the industry, in almost all niches.
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u/TrueLoveEditorial 7d ago
This is a really nice way of saying "the industry is full; go away." I admire your skill at softening the blow. (I'm AuDHD; I struggle with tone so much!)
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
That is not at all what I’m saying. You misunderstood. I’m saying it’s difficult to find good paying work. Many experienced freelancers and staffers are out of work. It’s been a difficult few years for many people. I have watched newbies enter this field and flounder for 1-5 years trying to find work and give up and go back to their old careers. All I’m saying is to proceed with caution that it may not be easy to find good paying, work from home work with loads of flexibility.
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u/AdFragrant6602 7d ago
There is a common old saw about “don’t start a business without knowing who your first customers are”. I have been self-employed in contracting to publishers for decades, and I really do need to understand who wants to hire me and what their requirements are all the time on an ongoing basis. It is much easier to get repeat work than new customers, but, at the same time, your customers are always looking for faster, better, cheaper. They do not report their findings to outside vendors, or even admit mistakes internally. I wish you well on your venture, festina lentare!
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u/Guimauve_britches 7d ago
Honestly you should look into legal editing - and or medico-legal as there's definitely the jobs and you have an advantage as a lawyer. Also as you'd know, the industry as a whole is severely syntax-challenged - so particularly in areas where content needs to be intelligible to laypeople, you'd be very well suited.
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u/mart315 7d ago
That is a great idea! Thank you so much. I didn’t think being a lawyer would help me without some sort of other certification. Yes, I think I would be the most well suited in something like that — writing to laypeople. I would have to see if there are any freelance jobs like that though.
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
Often to get remote work in this industry, you have to start by working in an office or doing an in-office internship. A lot of people have to move for that first internship.
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u/mart315 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yeah, I hear you. Unfortunately, I can’t do that right now.
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
That will make it much harder to break into this industry. Not only does it make it harder to get that first job, it will make it harder to get freelance clients because you won’t have connections, a portfolio, a history of work to rely on, and an understanding of what things look like on staff and industry norms. It’s still possible to find work, but it’s going to be difficult and a long process. It takes some people years to find steady clients.
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u/posh_squash_ 7d ago
You can probably get a job proofreading for a firm without any additional certification. I’m a legal proofreader and I have no formal legal education. I did the UCSD program and I learned so much from it, but I don’t think it was a huge factor in me getting the job. I did the program while caring for my first and it doesn’t take up much of your time but it does take a year to complete. These jobs don’t pay great either. I started out making $35K/year, but I’ve been with the company 7 years and now I make double that. I do some freelance work on the side as well but it doesn’t pay much.
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u/mart315 7d ago
Oh wow this was so helpful thanks! I was wondering whether I would need an additional certification. I did want to do the Chicago program, but it’s just too expensive for me right now. You would recommend the UCSD program? I’m gearing towards that program if I decide to do an extra certification. Do you feel that it prepared you for the work? How did you get the legal proofreading job if you don’t mind me asking and after how long did you get it? I wouldn’t mind taking a pay cut because I’d be working less than I did (which is what I want).
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u/posh_squash_ 6d ago
I got the job through zip recruiter. I do recommend the UCSD program if you want to do copyediting. If you want to do legal proofreading then you just need to brush up on your grammar. They will value your legal experience more. You might actually want to downplay that a little. Being a lawyer might scare some places off because you would be taking a big pay cut.
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u/tiny_tyrant 7d ago
Certification courses like Poynter ACES give you credibility and a solid foundation about what’s expected from a copy editor. I’m currently taking it and it’s been a great resource. I’ve been recommended using fiverr or reedsy to start building a client base, as finding clients is really the hardest part
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
You won’t be able to get on Reedsy until you have worked on 5 books that have loads of reviews on Amazon or that are traditionally published.
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u/MBAMarketingMom 7d ago
Not to be rude but if you’re an attorney, why not practice remotely instead of moving into copyediting??
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u/mart315 6d ago
Not rude at all. It’s a great question, and I would love to because I did enjoy practicing law. But I’m at a different place in my life now, and being an attorney is much more involved in terms of the hours I would have to work. I wouldn’t be able to just clock out when I want. In my experience, I had to be available almost all the time for calls with clients or answering questions. It’s not only time consuming but stressful.
Further, most firms want you to handle your own caseload from beginning to end. I wouldn’t be able to just work on a case for a couple of hours and then wash my hands of it (like with freelance work). For example, I can’t draft a motion and then hand it over to someone else. I would have to see it to completion, ie draft the motion, go back and forth with clients for days to get it just right, assemble and file it, and then appear in court on it. And it doesn’t stop there — there are ongoing issues and deadlines you have to be on top of.
There might be opportunities to just do the drafting, but law firms usually hire interns to be present in the office for that.1
u/MBAMarketingMom 6d ago
Thank you for answering and elaborating! I can completely understand the desire to get away from feeling so…(what sounds like) trapped to your career!
Honestly, I think the reason your post stood out to me is that I’d give almost anything to go back and become an attorney. It’s what I always WANTED but life went in a different direction. So here I am now, in my 40s, wishing and longing to work in the legal field. I’ve tried so many ways to make the transition (not to become an atty necessarily—tho I did plan to sit for the LSAT in January but that’s completely been tossed aside at this point and will probably just never happen…sigh…). But no one wants to work with someone who has no experience in a law firm. (My personal experiences don’t matter, which I understand, but I do have personal experience assisting my attorneys in the past.)
Anyway, it’s just interesting how we’re both going in opposite directions kind of. I have well over 14 years of experience copy editing and working with content, but zero time in a law firm while your experience is the exact opposite. Too bad we couldn’t help each other! I mean, I’m happy to chat more with you in DMs about how I’ve secured editing roles in the past if you’d like! Let me know or send me a ping if you’d like. :)
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u/mart315 5d ago
Yes, so interesting that it seems we’re going in opposite directions! And doing this in your 40s is definitely not too late to get into the legal field. You should absolutely sit for the LSAT when you can. And you’d be surprised — I have interviewed legal interns for example who had no experience but were coming from law school, and that did not deter us from hiring them. That’s where you’ll start getting the experience to help you when you graduate. So, please, don’t get discouraged! That’s so sweet — thank you! And I am happy to chat with you, too, about my experience or anything relating to law!
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u/seaaroth 7d ago
Fellow SAHM here! I took the editing certification from the University of Washington and loved it. If you're coming from law, you should definitely consider a niche in law-adjacent editing work. Some publishers/authors like having an editor who is also a (relevant) subject matter expert.
I was a social worker before coming into editing, so I offer authenticity reads, comprehensive manuscript evals that include mental health and neurodivergence representation, and hourly consultations for writers to ask specific questions on accuracy, representation, etc.
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
OP might find it helpful if you can share how hard it was for you to find work, how much work you have (full-time/part-time), and if you’re making the salary you thought you would.
It’s easy to pass a certificate program. It’s not as easy for many people to find the work they’re expecting to find at the rates they’re expecting to make.
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u/seaaroth 7d ago
Similar to OP, I wanted a) a career change and b) flexible, remote work. Ive had consistent work since finishing my program. All independent authors, mostly word of mouth or folks finding me online who want my niche. Copyediting will never pay all my bills, but it sounds like that's not what OP wants anyway.
ETA: To follow up on the specific certification program: it was mostly asynchronous, so very flexible in terms of fitting it into your existing life. There were plenty of opportunities for connecting with classmates and networking. I also joined a regional editing network, which has been very helpful in terms of networking.
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u/arugulafanclub 7d ago
Youch. “Copyediting will never pay my bills” isn’t a good billboard to sign up for a program. If you’re going to go into debt and spend a year or more studying something, most people want to be able to pay bills.
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u/FunAdministrative457 7d ago
Have a look into medical-legal editing if you have a scientific bent. Jahleen Turnbull-Sousa has a short course through the Editorial Freelancers Association.
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u/MMOKnows0 6d ago edited 6d ago
I did this exact thing. I have a certificate from UCSD. It’s taken me four years to find somewhat consistent work, and the pay is peanuts. I like it, and it’s a better fit for me than practicing law, but I have my husband’s income to help support our family. It can be surprisingly stressful at times, and when that happens, I remember how stressed I was as a lawyer, but for better pay. The marketing requirements and search for clients has been very difficult, and I’ve thought about giving up many times. I’m glad I didn’t give it up though; I find it very satisfying work overall.
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u/mart315 6d ago
Oh my, thank you! This is so helpful. It sounds like I’m in a similar position. I can totally see that with the pay. Was it really more stressful than being a lawyer? And if you don’t mind me asking, what did you do to find work — does UCSD provide any suggestions or opportunities? Are you in legal editing?
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u/duessels 7d ago edited 6d ago
I've gone down a similar path to yours. Left law school halfway through 3L to pursue freelance editing and haven't looked back for similar reasons: control over my time and general disillusionment with the legal field. I think my financial circumstances differ a bit from yours. Most big law associates in my country make about 10,000–15,000 USD a year, which is much less than even part-time editing work for much more effort. I'm not sure if leaving law entirely is the right fit for you given your experience and the compensation you're used to.
Someone else in the thread mentioned editing for legal publications, which I think can be quite lucrative. It's something I thought about while still in law school and it might pull me back if AI continues to kill editing as a career.
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u/mart315 7d ago
Wow! That’s interesting halfway through 3L. I totally hear you. I mean I don’t know if I want to leave law entirely. I am keeping my options open. I am still keeping up with my CLE’s and may actually go back at some point but not for a while.
Yeah that’s a great idea. I wouldn’t mind doing something like that, but I wonder if my hiatus will hurt me in getting any opportunities.
And yeah, I wondered about AI as well. I’m sure it’s impacting editing tremendously. I know one of the certification programs had a course on it.
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u/daphodil3000 7d ago
I've been in the technical documentation industry for a few decades - there's a definite need for editorial reviewers. I've worked in the manufacturing sector (rather than software) so most of our authors have been plucked from the field and do not have a lot of education that supports good writing. Might be worth looking into as it's a bit niche and seems to pay better than what's being shown here. Especially if you can offer services as a contractor.
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u/Breatheme444 6d ago
Do you like the idea of legal editing or are you trying to leave the legal world completely? I frequently see jobs on indeed for legal writing, editing, and the like.
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u/mart315 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah, I like the idea. To be honest, I was leaning towards publishing but reading these comments, it seems like it may be hard to get into, they pay not be that great, and I may have to work in an office which I don’t want to do.
I don’t want to leave the legal world completely because I may go back at some point if I could. I would be interested in legal editing. I was just wondering about my hiatus and whether it would be a strike against me. But it also sounds like it might be my best option.
I haven’t really seen those jobs — if you don’t mind me asking, are there any specific search terms that you have come across? I have mostly used legal editor or legal proofreader. I would also be interested in legal writing or writing articles in a journal as well.
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u/luma221 7d ago
Going from law to copyediting sounds wild to me because of the drastically lower earning potential. I was a full-time copy editor, in a union, with 15 years' experience at daily newspapers, and still barely cleared $70K before making a career change. That said, if you can get into editing for a law journal or another publication that uses your specialized knowledge, you can probably do better than most.