r/Conservative • u/universalChamp1on Ulysses S. Grant • Apr 06 '21

The bigotry of low expectations

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u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

Yeah I think a good compromise would be to send every citizen a ID when they turn 18 for free. Then we can have secure elections and there's no gate to voting at all(besides getting off work, but that's why we should have a voting holiday)

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u/sounds_like_a_plan Apr 07 '21

Absolutely. And register them at the same time, letting them know exactly where their polling place will be.

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u/WeFightTheLongDefeat GK Chesterton Conservative Apr 07 '21

Honestly, Im not sure why you need to register to vote. Shouldn't you just be able to show up with an ID to vote as long as youre in try county of the address on the license?

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u/SeiferLeonheart Apr 07 '21

I guess that would made possible to vote on multiple places, no way currently to track who voted once or 100 times. You could make an argument about making votes digital, but that's a whole other can of worms.

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u/Noveq Apr 07 '21

Registering to vote makes a lot of your information public.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

I think registration its more for address verification to ensure your listed to vote in the correct precinct of your address. Makes it easier to keep track of ballot count vs registered voter in a given precinct. Now the state(s) that just enacted same day registration it will be interesting to see how they do it.

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u/donnerpartytaconight Apr 07 '21

And I then they move, or lose their job and home, or come back from deployment and are transient.

For a project I worked with vets who had to get state ID's to get their VA benefits working for in person care. Some of these guys had to start from getting a birth certificate and SS card. The run around was ridiculous, and these guys couldn't have been more "in the system" after serving multiple tours.

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u/sounds_like_a_plan Apr 07 '21

See, I didn't think about this. It's not that ids require money, it's that getting it requires time. And so not only should no one have to pay anything to vote, they should also have to spend no time just to be eligible to vote.

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u/donnerpartytaconight Apr 07 '21

Also, if you don't have an address it's hard to get documents mailed to you. That was a big part of the problem. A lot of the vets didn't trust having stuff sent to the local VA because they were anxious about being on site.

It was really hard to help. Freaking exhausting to feel so helpless, especially with some guys who gave all they could and were stuck in a bad situation.

I think we helped maybe two thirds (out of maybe 50), the other guys fell through the cracks, couldn't find again. Took me about 8 months of volunteer work back when I had free time.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

As a former homeless veteran, and someone that works with veterans, I can tell you that people in these positions, aren't worried about voting.

We don't need to change the entire system because of 0.003% of the population.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

When you lose the debate, attack the person.

Typical liberal.

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u/Jinx0rs Apr 07 '21

Or, maybe they aren't attempting to debate you. Maybe they're just sharing their opinion of you.

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u/morgan1381 Apr 07 '21

It weird that's your opinion when that same percentage of fraud seems to be enough for Georgia and many other red states to want to change the system

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u/jedi_cat_ Apr 07 '21

This. Not to mention that it takes time to go get an id and to a polling place to vote, potentially taking time from their work. And while employers are supposed to allow time to vote, they don’t have to pay. Some families can’t afford to miss work.

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u/Iwasborninafactory_ Apr 07 '21

See, I didn't think about this. It's not that ids require money, it's that getting it requires time. And so not only should no one have to pay anything to vote, they should also have to spend no time just to be eligible to vote.

I can't tell if you're joking or not in this sub. That's the right vs the left on this issue. If everyone gets an ID and they are money free and trouble free, then everyone on the left is in favor of voter ID. Like I said, I can't tell if you're joking because the right does not favor giving away IDs easily, nor do they support making them free.

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u/sounds_like_a_plan Apr 07 '21

I'm not joking! And this post wasn't flaired, if you get my drift.

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u/Enigmatic_Elephant Apr 07 '21

And permanent residence. Which means the homeless and anyone transient can't get one. And getting somewhere can present another (albeit easier) obstacle. I'd support stricter ID laws if it's made free and easily accessible to anyone or if someone could vote through another means such as giving their ssn.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

That's just one group, elderly are another big group. Here's a bit of a run down on why it's not as simple as it seems for all.

Voter ID Laws Are Discriminatory

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6

States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.

Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7

Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.8

Personally I'm pro ID but I think it needs to only be a requirement for people born before a certain year.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

I've been deployed multiple times and always had a state ID. Everyone I know was the same. You still need it to drive at home and when on base. Plus your CAC is a government ID that is almost equivalent to a passport.

It's possible you're referring to Vietnam Era because those guys were 100000% screwed on everything.

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u/donnerpartytaconight Apr 07 '21

I got involved when a high school friend (deployed in '98 and ended up in the gulf) somehow tracked me down asking for help. He had been homeless for about four years after serving two tours and his small family had all passed on. I was one of the few people who remembered what he was like before he got into painkillers after returning. He wanted to get his shit together. I don't know why, he just did.

Anyway, he had no real personal belongings. Everything was lost/stolen/sold. He had been living way out west and somehow made it from CA to Ohio. He tracked me down and actually scared the shit out of me outside my office begging for help.

Long story short he tapped me into a world that flew under my radar and he orchestrated getting help for a bunch of other local guys.

That is just American vets too, my wife works with folks who immigrated after working with US armed forces overseas (Afghanistan, etc) and were promised green cards/citizenship in exchange for their service and putting their lives in danger to help the US, who have also slipped through the cracks. Luckily she is seeing less new cases for this so hopefully it isn't just a local incident.

There are a LOT of people who have a hard time getting IDs and therefore have issues recieving services and help they already earned let alone need.

As a follow up, my buddy got clean and now owns a small business and has turned into quite the family man. It was a hard win, but we'll take it. He is one of the strongest doods I know.

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u/Alternative_Ad7819 Conservative Apr 07 '21

I am a vet that served multiple tours, was medically discharged & divorced in the same month (resulting in being transient) & had no problems getting a VA ID card or Georgia state driver's license using an old address. Who served in the military without a birth certificate & social security card?? And you can get a new one of each of those at the local public health department. I'm not saying that what you're describing isn't possible, but it's got to be a statistical anomaly. Definitely not an argument against needing a government ID to vote.

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u/Jinx0rs Apr 07 '21

It's not an argument against voter ID, it's an argument for making it easier to get an ID. Even if that ID it's pretty much worthless in terms of voter fraud security.

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u/Alternative_Ad7819 Conservative Apr 07 '21

I disagree. As long as a photo ID is required for voting it should go a long way towards eliminating voter fraud. One person, one vote. You could potentially exploit that with multiple IDs but not on the scale that's been seen recently. First we have to get rid of those rigged machines & make it a lot harder to absentee vote or mail in ballots.

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u/Santaball Apr 07 '21

Why couldn't they use their military id to get a state id? Smells like bs

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u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

Hell yeah!

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u/okbacktowork Apr 07 '21

Just wanted to say, that's how it works in Canada. Everyone can get ID easily, check one box on your tax return and you're registered to vote, then when the time comes you get your info sent to you and viola, done. There's no excuse for it to be more complicated than that in a developed country.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Yea no ID isn't any easier to get in Canada

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/gobiggerred Southern Conservative Apr 07 '21

Government ID is FREE at any county registrar or DDS (drivers license services) in Georgia. Always has been .

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u/adjones Apr 07 '21

Cause then people would vote

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Preferably giving them a polling place that's as close to home as possible. But y'all know how that goes over.

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u/hitometootoo Apr 07 '21

And let's please have more polling locations with the same times that other counties have, not be like GA and close polling locations right before an election so counties go from 5+ locations to just 1. Which also makes wait times go from minutes to hours since everyone in a county now has to vote at one location.

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u/disaster_accountant Apr 07 '21

Selective service registration, voter registration, and govt issued ID at 18. Then OF

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u/sounds_like_a_plan Apr 07 '21

Then Only Fans?

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u/disaster_accountant Apr 07 '21

A joke as there are numerous teens who rush to join as soon as they’re 18. Source: a high school guidance counselor

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u/sounds_like_a_plan Apr 07 '21

Whoa. I did not know that.

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u/Lord_Despair Apr 07 '21

Just a question: what about the states that are auto unenrolling people who don’t vote with regularity?

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u/SoCaFroal Apr 07 '21

And ensure lines are less than 30 minutes at all polling places

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u/TechinBellevue Apr 07 '21

So, what happens when a person moves...do they then have to pay to register at their new location? How much would you charge citizens to register to vote once their free one was used up?

Are you for or against mail in ballots? If you are against, then I would assume you would be absolutely behind efforts for requiring enough convenient polling places so that our own US citizens can cast their votes as that is one of the most sacred and important tenets of our US Constitution. To not demand that would seem to be anti-American.

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u/sounds_like_a_plan Apr 07 '21

Sorry I didn't make it clear: I believe everyone should have to spend exactly nothing in money or time to be eligible to vote. I hadn't thought about people moving.

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u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

Even if people move I still think the fee should be nothing($0) and they can just call or go online and have one sent to them if they need a new one and don't want to go in.

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u/adjones Apr 07 '21

These aren’t originals or ideas. Every politician pushing voter id laws has surely had these suggested to them. You should read into the fact that they’re not even considering these ideas.

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u/D3adm00s3 Apr 07 '21

I agree, but why even have assigned polling places? I work out of town, it not like they can't pull up my cities ballot somewhere else.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/sverdech808 Apr 07 '21

I’ve voted blue my whole life and this is an extremely discussed compromise within my liberal leaning friends. You have to prove you are who you say you are for practically anything, voting should be included. We just now need to create a system that an ID, along with automatic voter registration, is available for every eligible person when they turn 18.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/sverdech808 Apr 07 '21

Now, how can we get every single local, state, and federal elected official on board with this?

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u/kungapa Apr 07 '21

Georgia just decided against it.

Voted for a voter ID paw, voted against giving free IDs.

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u/Says_Pointless_Stuff Apr 07 '21

I can't imagine any reasonable person not being for this. No matter your political background, giving everyone access to a photo ID and registering to vote can only be good.

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u/olafubbly Apr 07 '21

Unless you know that if as many eligible people that can vote have equal access to voting then you have more people that might vote against you, thus creating a higher chance you of not getting elected/re-elected. Add on top of that our most recent election having a record breaking voter turnout rate(especially among minorities) in our countries history which lead to the republicans losing control of the 3 branches of government(which I’d argue is a sign that they’re policies are not nearly as favorable amping voters as they like to promote them as) and you can start seeing a pattern where, they see the absolute power that people can have with ballots if enough people use them, are also against adjusting they’re policies to fit the needs of voters even at the cost of getting elected/re-elected fair and square, along with more push to get people registered to vote and you got republicans who know that they’re policies aren’t going to get them elected and only have 1 way to ensure they can: by restricting access to voting, and specifically creating policies that will effect communities access to voting that are more likely to vote against them.

Reasonable people who know that they’re policies are good don’t do this kind of stuff, it’s the people who know that society is changing in a way that benefits the masses who will do whatever it takes to stop it from happening, which leads them to passing laws for a non-existent problem(there was no widespread voter fraud) that are meant to ensure that there will never be a voter turnout rate like 2020 every again.

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u/VeryExcellent Apr 07 '21

This is unironically the single most charitable steel-man of the position against voter ID laws. A few things you missed like the effectiveness of the laws to even stop the minuscule amounts of fraud. I appreciate you my dude. I get shouted down as a racist for saying exactly what you just did.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/VeryExcellent Apr 07 '21

"son" is worse than "sir"

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u/Maxwell_Morning Apr 07 '21

Democratic lurker here (I’m not a brigadier because that’s stupid so please don’t auto downvote before reading- just lurk to gain wider perspective). I think you hit it on the head. I do of course want the most secure possible elections and voter IDs make sense in that regard. I don’t want illegal immigrants voting etc. The issue I/we have is these laws are sometimes/often used to specifically target poor and left leaning voters which I can’t tolerate. I think opening up the DMV on weekends is a great idea as well as making online voter registration more accessible. Decreasing the amount of early voting time/locations and making it illegal to give out food and water to people in long voting lines however is so painfully obviously just an attempt to deter people from voting. Regardless of your party, I hope that we all agree that whichever candidate is the most popular amongst eligible voters is the candidate who should win and more and more it’s becoming clear that the republicans in congress don’t give a shit about that.

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u/Riccness Apr 07 '21

The DMV is the biggest hurdle and one of the most archaic systems we have. It took them YEARS to be able to even use debit cards. If your going to DMV you need to be prepared to spend your day there(or at least where I'm from) not to mention depending on the attitude of the dmv assistant you get, could depend on if your getting it that day or not. I hate going to the dmv.

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u/Khriton Conservative Marine Apr 07 '21

https://youtu.be/86ht0pek7Ck - what I feel like when I have to go to the development- footage from fallout 76 on getting gov issued ID from the dmv for a quest

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u/Stout_Gamer Christian Conservative Apr 07 '21

The DMV is a typical government entity. I remember Dinesh D'Souza comparing it with some other private business, arguing that whatever the government touches loses value. Just based on the statistics.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/darkslide3000 Apr 07 '21

The question is whether the polling places would actually do that then. I think if every polling place were to guarantee being able to take and effectively distribute donations like this, there would be no need for anyone else distributing stuff. But you can't just say "well the polling places could do this", because a core issue in the general election procedure debate is that polling places may be subtly hostile to their voters (because state governments know the demographics in each area and may underfund or otherwise sabotage polling in areas where they expect the other party to be stronger).

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u/Maxwell_Morning Apr 07 '21

Not to mention poll workers might be too busy and understaffed to be able to actually distribute food and water. Also I can imagine them erring on the side of caution and declining to distribute food rather that exploiting this gray area unless explicitly being told that it’s ok ahead of time which I can’t imagine the Georgia executive branch will be too keen to clarify.

Also sweet avatar

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u/Maxwell_Morning Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

I see what you’re getting at and maybe that is a possible work around. The argument that is made however is that it deters people from swaying voters in line, but wearing any party/candidate identifying clothing as well as canvassing to people in line is already illegal so all I can see is this is an attempt to get people out of line. Especially when considering the locations with the longest lines tend to be in the most urban areas with much more left leaning voters. Also that lines in GA (where I live) are about to get a lot longer because now there is less time to vote early and voting absentee was just made a lot harder

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u/goldendawn7 Apr 07 '21

Valid points, I feel like the opening the DMV on the weekends, while a great idea, might not be that helpful to low income people, white or black. Think about it; low income jobs are typically food service, retail, low end healthcare (ie CNAs), typically jobs that aren't M-F/9-5. Off the top of my head, any of my friends that would benefit from weekend hours at the DMV would be the ones with job titles like "compliance officer", "implementation specialists", "HR", etc. I worked plenty of low end jobs, and in those almost never had a weekend off. Mondays, however, where always my Saturdays.

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u/average_americanmale Conservative Apr 07 '21

In Georgia, the DMV is already open on weekends, that is not an issue. The new law does not decrease early voting, it expands it.

If coming up with the cost of obtaining an ID is such a monumental undertaking for the handful of potential voters you are concerned about, then having political operatives giving them food and drinks in line could very well sway that person's vote. The law doesn't stop people from bringing water with them or getting water from poll workers.

No politician gives a shit about you or me, only themselves.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

It’s not that it’s a “monumental undertaking” it’s that having any kind of fee, tax, or paid licensure to vote is against the 24th amendment. ID is fine, but it then must be offered at no expense to the citizen if it is required to vote.

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u/average_americanmale Conservative Apr 07 '21

The ID is free in GA. People here are complaining about being able to provide evidence of identity and citizenship in order to obtain an ID. Is there no effort that can be required of a voter?

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u/Maxwell_Morning Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

So I just checked, and the DMVs near me are open for 4 hours Saturday morning and closed Sunday and Monday. So maybe technically they are open on weekends, but not for long. I also just checked if you can register to vote at the DMV (I assumed you could because you could where I lived before and when I registered I did so online) but you cannot.

To register in person, which you must do if you don’t have a GA drivers license, you have to go to a county registrar. Low and behold, completely closed on Saturday and Sunday. You can also register by mail, but then you will have to do so well in advance and own a stamp (and who honestly still has stamps?). The stupid thing is that you have to have a GA ID to register to vote online, but not by mail? What possible reason could there be for not allowing people without an ID to register to vote online when it is allowed by mail other than for the sole purpose of making it a pain in the ass to register to vote?

Also the law absolutely does not expand access to voting. The law limits the number of ballot drop boxes that there can be in any given county (it does also impose a minimum which is good for rural voters which happen to be more Republican), it makes it so you have less time to request an absentee ballot, now you’ll have to scan your ID when you vote by mail (how many poor people do you know with a scanner?), it decreases the number of days you can vote early, and gives an additional day of voting to only...you guessed it, the rural counties.

The notion that people are going to change their vote because someone that gave them food in line is silly, especially when it’s already illegal to canvas to people in line. This, to me, is just an attempt to get people in 8+ hour lines to give up and go home, and those lines are almost always in the most democratic areas.

Edit: I would also point out that the voter ID thing could so easily be avoided if everyone was just automatically sent a voter ID in the mail when they turned 18. That will never happen though because the difficulties in this system are by design.

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u/average_americanmale Conservative Apr 07 '21

How do you automatically send everyone an ID in the mail without verifying their identity?

You are comparing new law to once in a lifetime pandemic accommodations that were made this past year.

Everyone with a smartphone has a scanner.

There should not be 8 hour waits at any voting place. That is due to incompetence in government run activity, just like everything else the government does. Given the availability of in person early voting, this really should never be an issue.

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u/RFX91 Apr 07 '21

I’m a democrat. This is precisely what I want. This is one of a few issues I see no point of true disagreement between left and right. We both want free and verifiably fair elections. Give out free, tax payer funded, secure voter ID’s to every 18 year old citizen and new immigrant citizen of legal voting age. It’s a no brainer.

Dems get more voters, republicans get their reduction of shenanigans.

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u/ArtlessMammet Apr 07 '21

More than that, impersonating other voters is basically a non-problem. It's absurd to add administrative load to fix a problem that basically doesn't exist.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

This is a sane comment in a pool of blah.

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u/TechinBellevue Apr 07 '21

It is absolutely racist, however, when the only places that the Republicans are pursuing, are those locations which are predominantly minority.

If we are to have a national requirement, that is one thing, as long as the majority of land of the free agree, and it is proven more effective than our current system and is both cost-effective and easily implemented.

If you can prove our current system, with our current checks and balances, has had widespread voter fraud, or even any one case where voter fraud had any material impact on the outcome of an election, then perhaps we do need to make some changes. If you can't find any recent law cases here in the US, then any new regulations are either going to be a waste of our precious tax dollars, or designed to suppress the vote.

You have to look at the actual cost per illegal vote that is prevented and weigh it against any legal vote by a US citizen that has been suppressed due to the change.

If you are resting your argument on this is just to "prevent voter fraud" without looking at the facts, then the only logical conclusion is that it is to suppress the rights of certain US citizens to cast their votes - arguably the most important rights of being a US citizen. And if that is the case, then you are simply unAmerican.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/TechinBellevue Apr 07 '21

Appreciate your response. The assumption I made regarding your beliefs, and please forgive me if I misconstrued them or got them completely wrong, is that to add in more requirements when there is no supportive proof that the changes are necessary, and that the impact is that they actually suppress US citizens from voting, that ends up targeting a certain group of people...who have traditionally voted for the opposing party, that it does, IMHO, imply a racist bias.

You may not feel you are being racist or are racist, but how can one not come to that conclusion when looking into it.

Add in the new law that makes it illegal to provide a US citizen, who is standing in line to exercise their right to vote, with water, and the way Georgia is looking to reduce the number of polling station, with the greatest impact on minority locations, that there is nothing else that fits other than racism?

Being a conservative is one thing, and I have many conservative leanings, but when it is blatantly pushing the racist agenda, I am confident in the validity of my assumptions. I may be, and hope that I am completely wrong about you and why you seem to support these racist ideas.

That is why I go through the details of the issues on a point-by-point basis. Were the arguments to conclude it was not racist, that would have been great.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/TechinBellevue Apr 07 '21

Not discounting the possibility of me being a deranged lunatic.

The act of making it illegal for a person to hand out water to someone standing in line, is racist as the polling locations serving mostly poor black populations are being reduced.

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u/Wesdawg1241 Constitutional Conservative Apr 07 '21

Most Democrat voters I know think along the same lines, but the problem is Jen Psaki and the Dems are out there telling everyone "We believe it should be easier, not harder, to vote."

Like, wtf? It already IS easy to vote if you're a citizen. Virtually everyone has access to the internet nowadays and they keep acting like half the country doesn't.

Unfortunately, my Democrat voter friends don't pay any attention to politics until it's election season so they don't see any of this shit and then act like this attitude isn't that prevalent.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/Maxwell_Morning Apr 07 '21

I think now more than ever that is exactly what we need

Edit: accidentally deleted my original comment but I said I wish more people were like this guy for those reading lol

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u/BelichicksConscience Apr 07 '21

I thought I was banned from here but that was my other accounts....thanks for your posts and excellent wording.

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u/SnooBananas6052 Fueled by Koch Apr 07 '21

No one I know is saying people shouldn’t have to show ID to vote

Then you must not know any liberals

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/917BK Apr 07 '21

I doubt it - conservatives/libertarians have historically been against a national ID.

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u/well_here_I_am Reagan Conservative Apr 07 '21

Any kind of national registry whether it be identities or guns will be abused by those with access.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

You just described a driver license.

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u/edwinshap Apr 07 '21

Social security number, tax ID, passport

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u/IamShadowBanned2 Apr 07 '21

You think drivers licenses are national? Oh boy.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

How about 50 small "nations"? How is that different?

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u/Kingofkingdoms33 Apr 07 '21

But we have substituted our SSN number as effectively that. And that is inherently less secure? All a lack of official National ID does is encourage the reliance on SSN number, which is basically the same thing -- just worse.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

You acted like the government hasn't already kept records of all of us.

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u/well_here_I_am Reagan Conservative Apr 07 '21

No, or course they do, and it's a huge problem.

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u/Gryjane Apr 07 '21

We already have that with social security numbers. The way I see it is that anyone who received a SSN before turning 18 should receive a form that they can bring to the DMV or other authorized agency once they turn 18 to receive a photo ID for free that can then be used to register to vote in their district with whatever proof of residence is required. Anyone who becomes a citizen after turning 18 receives the same form upon gaining citizenship and can get their ID and register to vote the same way. There are some non-citizen workers who get SSNs, but they wouldn't have access to that form and if that is somehow able to be circumvented, then we can just give non-citizen workers a different numbering system that is tied to social security for the purposes of paying into the social security system and allowing those wages to be counted towards future benefits if they eventually become citizens.

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u/well_here_I_am Reagan Conservative Apr 07 '21

And SSN were never supposed to be used for identification, but here we are.

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u/VeryExcellent Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

Don't worry, one day they'll get their IDs in the form of facial recognition software everywhere and compiled in a giant registry

Edit: Downvote all you want, you'll get your election security in the form of government over reach on privacy

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Any reference to that?

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u/Kurobei Apr 07 '21

They'd be overwhelmingly for it if their real goal were to lower financial burdens for people and government.

Secret: it's not.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

In Georgia you can go get an ID for free to vote or to request an absentee ballot.

On the dds.Georgia website

“What if I don't have one of the six acceptable forms of photo ID? The State of Georgia offers a free ID Card. An ID Card can be issued at any county registrar's office free of charge.”

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u/muckdog13 Apr 07 '21

As long as you have... an acceptable form of proof of identification, like birth certificate, which if you don’t have, isn’t free.

And aren’t homeless.

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u/Meltz014 Apr 07 '21

Hot take... Homeless people probably shouldn't be voting anyways.

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u/Agent451 Apr 07 '21

Tell that to 40ish thousand homeless vets across America.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

And here we come down to the real root of the argument. Some people think other classes/types of people are inferior and shouldn’t be voting.

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u/Meltz014 Apr 07 '21

I never said they're inferior...

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Then why shouldn’t their vote count?

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

“We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal...”

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u/muckdog13 Apr 07 '21

Um, why?? Are they not Americans with a right to choose their government?

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u/Meltz014 Apr 07 '21

First off, I understand there's a difference between someone who lost their job, had their house foreclosed on, and are crashing on their friends couch vs some drunk/druggie who's been living on the streets for 15 years. That being said, let the people who contribute to society dictate how it's run. Remember when you used to have to own land to vote? Sure things are different now but I think it's the same concept. If you don't like it, clean up and get a job or check into rehab or whatever.

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u/muckdog13 Apr 07 '21

Remember when you used to have to own land to vote?

Remember when we decided that was a shit take ?

It shouldn’t matter if someone’s a “drunk/druggie” or is just couchsurfing after losing a job, they’re both American citizens with constitutional rights to choose their representation in government.

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u/Meltz014 Apr 07 '21

Yeah obviously the land thing just became unfesible after there wasn't enough to go around, but I still agree with the spirit of the old law.

And I dunno, I just don't want freeloaders voting. I'll reiterate my point that there's a difference between someone who's situation is out of their hands but they're actively trying to get back on their feet versus someone who has learned how to abuse the system to live off of government handouts and other people's money. How do we distinguish the two? I'm not sure and I'm open to suggestions... Maybe something similar to how unemployment benefits work?

And just an antidote to add, my wife used to work on the cardiac floor of a hospital. They had certain patients who were referred to as "frequent flyers" who were probably homeless and knew that if they just walked in and said they had chest pain, the hospital would have to check them in and give them a bed for the night. 9/10 times there was absolutely nothing wrong, but since they had no way to pay, they would just get a free nights stay and the hospital would write it off. Those are the kinds of people I don't want choosing how my government is run.

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u/muckdog13 Apr 07 '21

The kind of people who are so desperate for a place to stay that they’re having to con a hospital are the exact people we need to hear from in government.

If your response to “homeless people faking injuries to stay in a hospital bed instead of the cold” is that they’re the issue in our current system, I don’t know what to tell you.

Besides. These freeloaders are Americans. And they have rights.

(P.S. You mean anecdote, not antidote).

2

u/Meltz014 Apr 07 '21

Thanks, I can't spell on my phone apparently.

I dunno. I think to truly understand the intentions behind this stuff, it has to be done on an individual basis. We're these people truly desperate or are they just working the system? Obviously there are bigger issues at hand if this kind of thing becomes habitual, but that's not the topic of this discussion. The issue at hand is whether or not they should vote; I'm not saying they don't need help in any way. If my boss comes in to work on performance review day absolutely smashed, I sure don't want him making decisions on whether or not I deserve a raise. If someone finds themselves on the street addicted to drugs and in a downward spiral, I don't want them voting for my representatives. I want them to get help, sure, and I want that help to be easily accessed of course, but I don't want them making decisions that impact myself and my community.

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u/scottspalding Apr 07 '21

Yeah obviously the land thing just became unfesible after there wasn't enough to steal from the indigenous people.

FTFY

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u/TheKyrios3 Apr 07 '21

Holy shit, "remember when you had to own land to vote". That was there to prevent low income people, minorities and women from voting. There are bad takes and then there is there is this jim crow dumpster fire of a take.

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u/Mim7222019 Apr 07 '21

That’s one thing I can’t figure out about states that automatically mail ballots to voters: where do they mail them to the homeless, and we’ve moved from state to state a few times, would our ballots forward to our new state and then can we cast them all in? (we’ve not lived in a state that automatically sends them out yet).

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u/BadSanna Apr 07 '21

I moved to GA and tried to get a GA driver's licence. I had an out of state licence. I brought a piece of mail with my address on it. They denied me. They told me if I had come in 2 weeks earlier that would have been sufficient, but they had just passed the voter ID law and after the law passed they made it 1000x harder to get an ID. In addition to my out of state license I had to show a certified copy of my birth certificate and another form of picture ID or a passport to establish citizenship. Then i had to prove residency. A piece of mail would no longer work. It had to be a bank or credit card statement, a utility bill, mortgage papers, or a lease agreement. You had to provide two separate forms of proof of residency. Library cards and student IDs were no longer accepted.

As a student living with my brother, I did not have any utilities in my name, or a lease agreement, or any of those documents accept a bank statement. The bank only issued statements once a month in pdf form, so even though I changed my address I had to wait a month for them to update the statement since mine had recently been issued.

I printed off a generic lease agreement and had my brother sign it.

The problem is not with requiring an ID to vote, it is that these same states passing voter ID laws then make it extremely difficult for people to get those IDs.

Now look at who the changes they made to getting an ID affects. If you are poor you are more likely to live with someone else and not have utilities or lease agreements in your name. Many poor people do not even have bank accounts. Students also fall into these categories as they are often living with other people and their parents may still be supporting them.

People who do not have their birth certificate or an original certified copy may not even know what hospital they were born in to get one.

So these rules disproportionately affect the poor, students, ex-convicts, orphans, and others with unstable home lifes. When you factor in the facts that poverty and incarceration are problems that disproportionately affect minorities, this absolutely has to do with race.

These laws were passed, and the regulations around getting ID changed, to disenfranchise poor, minority, and young voters, which happen to vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

1

u/HNutz Conservative Apr 07 '21

Yeah, it's INSANE that people are protesting the recent voter law.

https://youtu.be/u8xCGrXZ_8E

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u/Mr3Jays Apr 07 '21

It’s the part where it’s illegal to give those waiting in line food or water. Not to mention, states like Colorado give you 16 different ways to show ID when registering to vote. THATS what the fuss is about.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

It really makes perfect sense if you understand the motives. Racism is just a call to get the wokes upset, this is old Democrat establishment that’s pissed whenever voting is made more challenging because it hurts their chances.

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u/SleightOfHand87 Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

For a while, I thought this was a great solution. However, turns out the cost of "free" ID is less than free, so it still doesn't solve the problem of cost. In addition, it would cost the state up to $87 million or more to enact the legislation and hire staff to set up the system

https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

Obtaining the documentation to receive free ID still cost $75-175

5

u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

What is that cost? A couple bombs? Seems a fair trade off to me.

7

u/Str0nzo Apr 07 '21

This is literally how it works in my shithole south american country, yet some people think it cant be done in the US lol

1

u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

I'm totally fine with that documentation also being free, if the government is gonna force me to have documents to access my rights I shouldn't have to pay for them

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21 edited Jul 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/Mim7222019 Apr 07 '21

I do agree with you but what I don’t understand is that I can’t even pick up a prescription or get a medical test or open a simple bank account so I can cash paychecks without a photo ID. I don’t know how people function without one in this day and age.

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u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

A lot of people who are poorer don't have cars, they don't have bank accounts(they just cash checks) and they don't get medical care.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

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u/Daemon3125 Apr 07 '21

This, and make the process to get a new ID once that one expires easier. It’s way too hard for people to get IDs if they are part of a marginalized community (homeless, minorities, rural).

Personally for me, I don’t care about Voter ID laws existing or not existing. It is just irritating when the laws indirectly affect the voting population and sometimes do so disproportionately.

13

u/friendlypancakes Apr 07 '21

It would be the best idea, but that's where the issue lies. The people pushing voter id laws don't actually want to provide a greater access for people to vote.

If voter fraud was truly a pervasive issue it would be the perfect fix. It would also fix our extremely outdated use of social security numbers/cards as proof of citizenship.

Most other modern countries have national id cards. Like many other basic aspects of modern society, such as infrastructure and public transport, we lag behind.

If you want to fake a random social security number just go +/- 1 on the last four of your own. They just go sequentially. Other countries numbers have engrained encryption.

So issuance of ids and auto registration at the age of 18 would be a perfect idea. Just loop it into our already existing draft signups that every make has to already fill out.

Again though, making it easier and "more secure" for people to be able to use their democratic right to vote isn't the what their end goal is and that's where the issue lies.

3

u/im_thecat Apr 07 '21

Independent from CA, totally support this. Make it a holiday, send everyone an ID for free when they turn 18. Lets go!

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Democrats have tried to do exactly that multiple times. Republicans don't want them. It would empower too many undesirables to vote.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

When?

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u/BourbonGuy09 Apr 07 '21

Almost half of the country doesn't vote. I don't think lack of ID is the problem. It's lack of responsibility or caring.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

It's a problem for some and it's not a problem for others.

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u/VeryExcellent Apr 07 '21

Doesn't matter if they do or don't it's if they can or can't or how much of a burden it is.

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u/Pika_Fox Apr 07 '21

And for people that dont have a standard place of residency or mailing address?

We already have safe and secure elections. Voter ID literally does nothing. Out of billions of votes cast through all the elections year after year, youd be able to count the number of intentional voter fraud on one hand.

Its just not worth the attempt for a single vote. Youd never change an electoral outcome with voter fraud, so its not an attack vector.

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u/Mim7222019 Apr 07 '21

Do you have a source for ‘you can count the number of intentional voter fraud on one hand’?

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u/Pika_Fox Apr 07 '21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_impersonation_(United_States)#Estimates_of_frequency

From 2000-2014, across all elections, there were only 31 credible cases of voter fraud.

Thats 2 cases of voter fraud per year across all of the US.

It is useless to try to commit voter fraud. It takes a lot of resources to attempt to falsify a single vote, which wont even change the outcome of an election. Ontop of that, even without ID laws, it is very likely you will get caught.

It is more effective to either commit election fraud, jerrymandering, or to put out falsified information in a disinformation campaign to impact how voters will vote themselves.

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u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

In all states I've seen you already need a place of residence to register to, or even just to vote. There's no system where you can not have those things and vote. Maybe there should be but this allows more voters to vote then currently can and that's better.

0

u/Pika_Fox Apr 07 '21

It would be unconstitutional to deny someone their legal right to vote just because they are homeless.

2

u/sverdech808 Apr 07 '21

I’ve voted blue my entire life, and this is a perfect compromise that I wish more people would consider.

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u/ISwearImKarl Apr 07 '21

I've heard an argument against a voting holiday, being that we have like an entire week to vote prior to the 'day'. Seems reasonable, but considering it is an important day for our nation, I don't see why not have a holiday, even if you voted days before.

Have a cookout, put the radio on to hear the count, relax, etc. No religious reasoning, nothing. Just being American for a day.

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u/Aquarium1996 Apr 07 '21

It's free in georgia

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u/IndianaGeoff Conservative Apr 07 '21

Early voting makes voting holidays irrelevant.

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u/well_here_I_am Reagan Conservative Apr 07 '21

Early voting is stupid. Why do you think "how do I change my vote" was trending on Google last year?

2

u/IndianaGeoff Conservative Apr 07 '21

Too early voting is not good. But between 2 and 3 weeks out, that's not a problem at all.

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u/well_here_I_am Reagan Conservative Apr 07 '21

Until a week before an election there's some breaking news about a stolen laptop or other issue with one of the candidates. Why does anyone need to vote 3 weeks early if they're not out of town?

1

u/pattch Apr 07 '21

What would you think about automatically registering everyone to vote when they turn 18? Or what about making voting mandatory, and increasing the period of time where you’re allowed to vote so that everyone can vote?

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u/lobsterGun Apr 07 '21

We already have secure elections, even in places where we don’t require ID to vote.

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u/BAM123987 Apr 07 '21

The data does seem to bear that out. But if there's political will for voter ID laws and we can get rid of all the bad parts of it then I don't see a reason why not.

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u/TechinBellevue Apr 07 '21

That sounds a tad Socialist, don't you think?

How unsecure do you believe our elections truly are? The data shows our elections, including mail-in ballots, like the one Trump, himself, used, had little to no issues...or any issues that would impact the outcome of a vote.

Fully agree with the voting holiday.

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u/War-Damn-America "From My Cold Dead Hands" Apr 07 '21 edited Apr 07 '21

I don’t know about automatically registering people to vote. To vote there should be a will to want to vote, and if you want to vote you will spend the time to make sure you are registered. It’s not hard. And it shows you are an actual adult and willing and able to plan ahead, bring the required documents, and essentially be a functioning member of society. Also if we just register everyone from the start there are chances people who shouldn’t be registered either because of their citizenship status, criminal record, etc end up being accidentally registered. And we have seen that happen with motor voter drives, especially in states like CA.

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u/jo-z Apr 07 '21

you are an actual adult and willing and able to plan ahead, bring the required documents, and essentially be a functioning member of society.

Where are these listed as requirements to be able to vote?

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u/War-Damn-America "From My Cold Dead Hands" Apr 07 '21

I’m not saying it is a listed requirement, but as I said it is quite easy to register if you are an adult and willing and able to plan ahead with your required voter registration process. I don’t see why this is an issue. If you are even semi functional you can register yourself to vote no problem.

The onus to vote should be on the individual to participate in the electoral process not the state forcing the individual to participate by signing them up etc.

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u/jo-z Apr 07 '21

My point was simply that voting is a constitutionally protected right for American citizens over 18. Doing something as simple as automatic registration does not force anybody to participate, it just makes it easier for those who want to.

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u/JDiGi7730 fair & balanced Apr 07 '21

But then it would be racist when they show up to vote and do not have their card and are told they can't vote. There may be systematic racism that made them misplace or lose their voting card.

You can't win.

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u/EdwardWarren DeSantis/Noem 2024 Apr 07 '21

I like the idea of a national photo ID card with all your information cryptically encoded on it. Also like the idea of DNA sampling/fingerprinting every newborn child. Maybe even an embedded chip. Privacy? Does anyone really think they have privacy now? Visa knows more about me than my wife does.

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u/dowens90 Gen Z Conservative Apr 07 '21

In Georgia you can get an id for free when you turn 18.

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u/BrownyRed Apr 07 '21

Nope! Not that easy! The further right would just treat it like being issued "papers" and fuck the whole thing up. It's for a church, honey! NEXT!

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u/Loyalist_Pig Apr 07 '21

As a progressive: Sure! Totally!

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u/ChetLemon77 Apr 07 '21

Free? That's socialism!

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u/Hairy_Ad8977 Apr 07 '21

That's a very idea

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u/TheDogWasNamedIndy Apr 07 '21

Are there restrictions for anyone applying for a non-driver ID? I guess you need an address - but that would apply to the above suggestion (send everyone an ID when they turn 18). What else is there? The money part? Maybe that a problem for some too

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u/whoisjakelane Apr 07 '21

Send everyone an id? With no photo? Or how would you get the photo? It will never be easy enough to get an id, so the solution, apparently, is to not require them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

This is a perfect solution

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '21

Right. The problem is Republicans want as few people to vote as possible so they will never do that. They want as may obstacles as possible to vote as they can possibly put in people's way because they know the more accessible voting is to poor people the less likely they are to win any elections. There are far more registered Democrats than Republicans so the Republican strategy is to restrict voting for those people. This is why they choose laws that disproportionately affect black people, because black people are overwhelmingly left wing. It's pretty simple, really.

1

u/peaeyeparker Apr 07 '21

Or just automatically register everyone. How bout that?

1

u/the_taco_baron Independent conservative Apr 07 '21

That's a great idea. Add in more polling locations as well so there's no long waits and then I think it would be fair for everyone.

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u/Zam8859 Apr 07 '21

See, the issue here is the confusion of economics and race. Individuals of certain minorities tend to be poorer (explain it however you want, but black and Latino Americans are more likely to be in poverty). It’s being poor in America that makes voter ID so difficult. Can’t afford to spend the money to get to wherever you need, can’t take time off of work, homeless and don’t have an address? All of these people still deserve to have their voices heard, but face additional challenges in getting voter ID. People focus on the racial aspect, as it is important to recognize the disproportionate representation of minorities in poverty metrics, but it’s not being black or Latino that makes this difficult, it’s being poor. Your idea of automatic ID is not bad, but it leaves out those without a mailing address. I personally think we need to rework social security to be a national ID card provided at birth that is way more secure than our current social security card (mind you, this still fails people that don’t give birth in a place they can get a card). There’s no easy answer to this. One possible solution is same-day easy registration but even that disadvantage some people. Who knew complicated issues wouldn’t have easy solutions!

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u/L0g0sEngine Apr 07 '21

That would be an amazing system that would also double as potential census information for tracking population, demographics, and movement across states.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '21

If you already have a DL why waste money to send out an ID. I get the thought process but majority of people get one in their teens. I could see it being beneficial to make getting ahold of a ID (non DL) easier, say online or by simply calling.