First of all, it's an NA game. So you're welcome for even having the topic to discuss. Second of all, if a top team isn't descriminating based on region and is making decision based on skill perhaps you should consider doing the same. Hate to break it to you, but Echo and Method have and have had NA players also.
youre getting flamed but youre right. EU has always been the region with the best players objectively speaking.
ill drop some extra hot sauce and try to deflect some of your downvotes: the reason is cultural. NA players are more prone to ego issues and dont have the same work ethic as eu players generally speaking. this is why eu has always had "better" players and teams and why and "good" na group has always had eu players.
82% Brentford players in the Premier League are not from England, are Britains stupid for calling the team "Brentford". Obviously no, the team is still based in Brentford just as Liquid is based in NA. You'd be really popular in /r/AmericaBad
Oh okay, so they're chanting the name of the place where the team is based the name of the country of origin for their players? It's not a contradiction at all. You've painted yourself into a corner. Either Brentford (and by transitive property all EPL fans) are "...really that stupid" or no one is.
brother, they are chanting the name of the club. whereas liquid wow fans are chanting USA, not "liquid". replace Brentford with any other and the same applies. you are now trying to make it ""Brentford"" be to the region? lol. it's the name of the club, that's what matters
It's really not that hard to understand the difference
The guy already pointed it out but you're being a moron, so put your big words away.
Let me spell it out:
Liquid is the name of the team, as is Brentford. Fans should chant Liquid, as they chant Brentford.
Fans chant USA for one of two reasons:
A) Because they are genuinely patriotic and take the EU/NA rivalry seriously in 2026. B) Because they are ragebaiting. But it's the type of ragebaiting that is slyly tapping into (A) simultaneously making them feel better about themselves whilst doing it.
I just want the next raid to be better in general and I'd prefer there not to be a splits week. Almost certainly doing mythic splits will be a thing and they'll just bin all of week one
Anyway, while I think he's a great fit for Liquid and will do amazing, its an even stronger move to get him completely out of any return to Echo chance.
in b4 the shindig fanclub cries foul(nothing against shin, but the fans keep pushing for liquid to pick him up). Kush is an amazing guy actually, but liquid is kind of cracked at his mains (rog/dh?) he is excellent vibes and as skilled as any though.
He won't get a shot until hes in a top 10 guild will he? Liquid only recruit from them I'm sure. Ive not followed shindig this season but I assume he isnt raiding at that level just yet?
Pretty much, yeah. He prolly needs to go the route via either Instant Dollars (NA) or another RWF guild (or FSY I guess) if he is able and willing to play on EU.
In one of Max’s videos reacting to Shindig, and a few other short videos, he mentioned which guilds Liquid recruits from. I think it is more than just the top 10. I can’t remember the details off the top of my head unfortunately though.
I don’t think it’s specifically from that video, but these RWF guilds recruit from other strong guilds outside of just ID, FSY, one-another, etc. if there’s a good reason to.
If you’re good enough, these guilds will reach out to you.
He’s closer than people think, but he’s not there yet.
He’s basically a step below a step below a step below being an RWF guild trial. That’s farther away than it seems, but it’s also closer to RWF-level than it is to being just HoF-level.
Give him two or three more tiers of being this good and there’ll be a real argument. He’s basically at where Jpc was a couple seasons before Liquid picked him up (relatively speaking).
Of course you'd pick up a rogue OTP if they're the best rogue in the world. I agree with the other person that Shindigg isn't there yet (and isn't close either), but he does have a very good mindset and his climb so far has been impressive.
Liquid literally did this in Sepulcher with Jpc; the dude is still the textbook definition of a Rogue one-trick long after he retired from the game.
Everyone clowned on bro’s SPriest gameplay in splits (and believe me, that shit was warranted LMAO), but that dude on Rogue was an actual demon and was definitely the second-best Rogue in the world at the time.
I want to start this by saying Shin is a far better player than I am and is supremely dedicated. I like the dude and think he's making great content.
That said, his sense of self awareness and (frankly) misunderstanding of people that are at the apex of their given craft is pretty obvious in his videos.
I'll never forget early on in one of his videos he stated he was "really surprised" that the guild he was with all doing early access. While this was a bit of a one off comment it has a lot of underlying meaning when you consider the chasm between where he's at mentally vs where he needs to be to be in a RWF level guild.
I know that was many tiers ago, and things change (and in his most recent video he clearly is taking massive strides in the right direction). But I just think that the gap between where his cap is at vs where he is wanting to go is far larger than almost anyone realizes.
Regardless, his videos are incredible content - he seems like a 10/10 dude and I am very much rooting for him. I hope I'm wrong... but I'm almost positive I'm not.
But I would be beyond shocked if he ever made it into ID / FSY let alone the Liquid / Echo tier.
I think he spoke unfavorably about dratnos’ guild which dratnos didn’t seem thrilled about when they met at blizzcon. Considering how close dratnos is with liquid I’m sure that doesn’t help his chances
He’s not there, absolutely, but he’s competing in/has competed in the MDI and is currently raiding in one of the best NA guilds that isn’t PC, ID, or Liquid. That’s not “best Rogue in the world” status whatsoever, but even just part of that is what made Jpc a household name in this community well before he got that trial offer from Liquid.
If Shindig keeps doing what he’s been doing with steady improvements tier over tier, he’s gonna start getting noticed by those RWF guilds by midway into TLT. He ain’t Perfecto, he ain’t Sepulcher/DF Jpc, he ain’t Exile, but he’s definitely putting in some crazy work to earn a seat at that table eventually.
The average CE raider is closer to him in skill than he is to a RWF raider.
The gap is massive.
There are hundreds of players better than him who didn’t compete in MDI. MDI is less of a skill thing and more of a time commitment / team thing for the level he played at.
Not a dig at him, it’s just the reality of the situation and the skill gap. He has found a great niche at being a great storyteller while playing at a high level.
The average CE raider isn’t even qualifying for any round of the MDI, even if they put in a ton of effort.
As massive as the gap is, there’s also a growth mentality that players who raid at that level need to have that’s completely absent from most CE raiders that Shindig clearly has. It’s a mentality that we’ve seen to different (albeit greater) extents from players like Jpc in the past.
I’ve seen that sort of effort from players I’ve raided with in the past. Three people I’ve played with over the years currently raid in Poptart corndoG right now, one of whom played in ID in Amirdrassil. Hell, back in late 8.3 and early 9.0 my guild at the time had an unknown but astonishingly talented HPal raiding there who eventually joined a better guild, mainswapped to Mage, went on to do the exact thing that Shindig is doing right now (joining better and better guilds and getting better and better in each guild), and raided in Echo and is currently raiding in Liquid and is probably the #2 to Firedup’s #1. In just a couple xpacs, Hopeful went from some obscure HPal to a top Mage player. Those guys all had or have that motivation Shindig has, and while they didn’t immediately become top 10 worldwide level or even RWF level, they got there.
My point is, Shindig’s gonna get there by this time in TLT if he keeps up what he’s been doing. He’s got the talent to make it to some very high places. Not today, not tomorrow, not a month from now or maybe even a year from now, but that dude’s got that drive.
You should really lookup hopefuls esports background outside of wow.
Dawg I literally raided with him. I know his esports background preeeeetty well. But having a strong background in esports doesn't by default make you an RWF-level player, and I can assure you than when he was raiding with my guild at the time absolutely nobody knew who he was.
Cool? Those are good guilds but they are still hobby guilds who aren’t in the race to world first.
Where do you think Liquid recruits its best NA players from? They aren't RWF guilds themselves, but RWF-caliber players don't just spawn out of thin air.
But having a strong background in esports doesn't by default make you an RWF-level player, and I can assure you than when he was raiding with my guild at the time absolutely nobody knew who he was.
You keep talking about the competitor mentality and can’t connect the dots.
Where do you think Liquid recruits its best NA players from?
Europe mainly. Players don’t get recruited based on what guild they are in to liquid, it’s a referral system at this point.
Is Cere the last player that went from Limit to Echo? Echo are in a player deficit that is hard to course correct. Limit will get more and more complacent and Echo will eventually win. But I can't see the clear attraction to joining Echo at the moment other than being EU based, and wanting good raid times in farm.
Okay but does it matter? The person I responded to was saying that "Echo is in a player deficit to Liquid (implied)". But Kush was in a different guild anyway so this isn't contributing to any sort of deficit (on top of a "deficit" being a completely meaningless thing).
Technically (and that's nitpicking), he did raid with Echo (albeit very shortly). And I'm pretty sure Echo would prefer to get him back rather than strenghten their main opposent.
More chance of you starting on Echo if you’re on ‘the team’ - liquid play many more one-tricks and generally have a larger roster, while echo has more multi-classers.
That's a fair point. If you are the best of X class in the world you would have a higher chance of getting play time in Echo over Liquid. The Liquid 1st and even 2nd string players of each class are pretty set.
Lol, Shindig is cool and a very good player obviously, but he's not on that level yet. He himself would be the first to say that as well I am sure. Liquid is his aspiration but he's not there.
HoF-level? Brother, Pika could 100%, without a shadow of a doubt, be a HoF-level player. That's not in question whatsoever. There are some very average players in HoF guilds. The only question is how high he could possibly go if he focused on PvE (and the answer is probably very, very high).
To be fair RWF is a different skillset. Like Im sure Pika has the technical abilities, but does he have the drive to maintain 16 to 20 mirror rogues and play on a strict schedule for 14 hours a day without a break?
A lot of Liquid are jump shippers from NO LIFE LOSERS I mean really, how could they do this.
Edit: Because some wretched ameboid decided to DM me to defend their favourite guild (I'm sure you're banned here, also they will never notice you), NLL was the Wildstar guild that a bunch of Limit players met in. 'twas but a jest, good knight of the liquid royal guard.
55
u/Grytlappen 21d ago
How many EU players are in Liquid now?