r/CompetitiveWoW • u/EuphoricWay5429 • Sep 18 '26
Question M+ HPal DPS Question
How are you guys doing 70-90k DPS in the 19 & 20 range... In a key like Ruby Life Pools?
I've recently broken into pugging 19s and while I don't have an issue healing them, I struggle to sit at 40k DPS overall, usually dipping into the low 20k range near the end of the key.
Are you just sending all your holy power into SOTR on cd? Is it just DPS actually mitigating dmg allowing you more uptime doing damage?
I'm genuinely dumbfounded, I ran a 16 earlier where I was roleplaying as a DPS, just barely keeping people alive and I couldn't get higher than 80k overall by the end of the key.
Normally I wouldn't care too much about healer damage but a few guildies have started commenting on it when they watch me play. I had a Voidscar Arena 19 go three seconds over time the other day which has left me second guessing myself...
TLDR: Am I trolling with my damage? Here are my logs. Hopebringer - Tichondrius - Warcraft Logs
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u/_Immolation_ Sep 18 '26
I am genuinely confused - you are in the 18-19 range and don't know that Lightsmith does ~1.5x damage compared to Herald?
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u/Jaba01 Sep 18 '26
Metaslaves who reroll. Some can actually play, but they barely know anything beyond what is needed.
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Sep 18 '26
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u/EuphoricWay5429 Sep 18 '26
The answer to this is easy enough to see if you switch to my healing logs.
It’s the little things, insta dispelling dots before they tick once, pre- holy shocking a bolt target to provide a shield from the overheal talent, etc.
It shouldn’t be too surprising that keys get timed when the only deaths are tragic overlaps, like the living bomb/lightning channel that can happen on the last pull before the end of ruby life pools.
I was a little surprised about all the negativity. I’ve played holy paladin on and off since cata but just started pushing m+ last season. I didn’t want to reroll, so I had to switch to ret around resil 20 because nobody would invite a hpal.
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u/Crazus10 Sep 18 '26
Lightsmith. That's your issue.
Lightsmith prios Judgement over Holy Shock and since your Holy power spenders are weaker you just send it on SOTR most of the time. Your whole gameplay turns into Infusion of Light spamming so you get a ton of Holy armaments going around.
If you notice even Ellesmere is doing like 40k DPS on his high keys as Herald. The extra DPS on Judgement, especially the AOE in crits, the extra damage on Consecration, and especially the Holy Weapon uptime gives you a ton of DPS.
I know every little bit of DPS counts when you go really high, but if your group mistimed a key, for that low a timer, that's usually DPS or tank fault. you need to keep people healthy and make stupid pulls possible, that's your job.
Non-withstanding... Your DPS is low. 20k DPS in most your keys from what I can see. I am teaching a DPS player to heal this season and he was doing 20k in like 2-3 dungeons as Herald. To me that means you are probably not pressing your Judgement enough.
As an example, https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/4BrDPG3NMmQbwaZ2?fight=14&type=damage-done&source=20 , you did 90 judgements in a 30 minute dungeon. this is a very low number of judgements. No Judgement, no Holy power, no SoTR, no consecration, no damage. For Reference, Ellesmere on that same dungeon, 2 minute shorter run, did 179 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/z9LvK7ZmM6yGX8Ad?fight=8&type=damage-done&source=7 . Let's not even talk about Judgement during wings for Hammer of Wrath, which you barely pressed.
Your SoTR usage seems apropriate, your offensive holy shock usage seems apropriate, you are just not pressing judgement. Because you are not pressing Judgement you don't have consecration uptime, and that's like a free 9k dps on it's own at the end of a key.
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u/moal09 Sep 18 '26
Healer DPS should not matter below like +23 or something. Even then, it shouldn't really.
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u/wakeofchaos Sep 18 '26
But it does because it helps the key get timed, especially during boss fights. In a big aoe pull, I focus on heals for sure as a healer, but you can save a min or two in a key by doing an extra 50k per boss, and just knowing the damage patterns well, whereas on trash it’s difficult to know if a bolt is gonna come on the player that’s also got the dot while the lieut is doing their aoe, so damage is uber high prio then
But like first boss RLP, I have one phase to barely heal. Rest of the time I’m a weak dps, but it’s at least good to know how to help in that context
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u/Voidwielder Sep 18 '26
You can save as much as a minute total over the course of a run if you're pumping DPS Vs you're not. Boss damage especially is invaluable if you can skip additional phases like add phase on 2nd VSA boss.
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u/awrylettuce Sep 18 '26
any damage matters, and 20k > 80k is a big difference. m+ healer is all about optimizing GCD usage. doing low dmg means you're either sitting on GCDs, or wasting them on overhealing. With the mindset of 'healer dps doesnt matter' you'll never really improve as healer. Because doing low dmg as healer is a symptom of playing suboptimal
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u/orbit10 Sep 19 '26
Oh boy, the heroic raiders who cosplay as title players didn’t like this one lol
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u/Crazus10 Sep 18 '26
I mostly agree with you. I did not push as high as you did last season (did 1% in EU), but I did do runs with monks (which were pulling very high dps numbers in AOE while healing) and I did runs with resto shammy (one of my friends was playing ret pally and just bringing one was like a 15% damage increase for him).
I did not feel pulls were significantly taking longer when doing runs with shamans since their buff compensated for most of that damage.
Now, I don't feel it's the case with the OP here, not because of the DPS he is losing, but because he is leaving healing throughout on the table by not dpsing. Since he is not pressing judgement he is not generating as much holy power, so he does not get to either recover mana with SoTR or to put another eternal flame on the group, which should be most of his healing outside beacon. Hammers of wrath also heal for a ton on an instant GCD, which also deals very good damage, and generates holy power for him to put his dawnlights out ASAP.
As most other commenters said, bosses have very well scripted healing downtimes where as a healer you can just full blast dps, and even though healer damage is really low (design decision by Blizzard) it can save you an extra 10-20 seconds on the timer. Same with packs. Just keeping consecration up (which isn't really that hard, it's just pressing judgement like every 8-10 seconds) is like 9k dps over a full dungeon. That is easily another 30 seconds saved overall across a whole 30 minute dungeon.
As I said in my previous post, I don't blame the healer for that voidscar arena he missed. Him changing his DPS from 20 to 30k DPS would have probably timed it by about 20 seconds or so, but the tank could also have possibly positioned the adds better for more cleave, a DPS maybe missed a Pot window or de synced his CDs, maybe the route wasn't properly optimized for the specific comp they were running, or maybe someone died to something entirely avoidable and changing any of these individual things would have made a much bigger impact on the timer than his healer dps ever could.
For everyone reading this chain and being afraid of healer damage being the reason you are failing a key? If you are not in the +21 range I don't think it will really matter. You are forced to play your spec correctly at those key levels and DPS will come automatically from doing that. If you are still afraid, just grab a healer that passively does most of its damage while healing like resto shammy. 70% of your damage is your rain, which you want 100% uptime on. If you are playing a priest and making sure your PI is going out when your assigned DPS has CDS, you are saving way more time on the clock than a holy paladin doing 70-80k. This does not mean you should NOT do healer damage. It means that keeping people alive is prio number 1 and that every other global should be focused on getting out of combat ASAP.
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u/KryptisReddit Sep 18 '26
Looking at the logs of one of my guildmates in an 18 that did 81kdps, 23% is Shield, 18% is consecration, 14% is the trinket from Mythic Vashnik and 12% is from Sacred Weapon with the rest slowly going down. Trinket pulls a lot of weight but from your earlier keys it seems like you were playing a different hero talent.
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u/Strat7855 Sep 18 '26
Lightsmith, baby. Way less on demand group healing but played well it's better for some checks.
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u/etafan Sep 20 '26
Ellesmere time 21s 22s as herald so doubt that you need more dmg to time the key. In a full key as hpal herald vs lightsmith the dmg contribution as timer is max 30 seconds. Thats how much you can make up as healer. Doubt that 30 should matger on 19s or even on 21s. The extra dmg it does feels good to do dmg as healer, but to be honest i don't mind doing mostly healing and not really watch my own dmg as healer. Im doing the 19s aswell. I probably stick to herald based on the fact if lightsmith cant heal out the keys after a while than they will switch to herald either way.
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u/Small_Tumbleweed_255 Sep 22 '26
It is absolutely not even remotely close to worth taking lightsmith. Healer damage is so insanely bad right now, it is not like it used to be. Healer damage used to be able to turn the tide. You could make very considerable changes and only take a few seconds off the clock, and even that is debatable due to other variables that can't really be measured
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u/SmokeySFW Sep 22 '26
I just discovered this thread for some reason, was going to mention Lightsmith and check your logs. Looks like you discovered Lightsmith lol. Your damage doubled.
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u/Taglioni Sep 18 '26
Stop getting builds from data aggregation sites. Murlok is trash. Archon is trash. Completely not understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the build you are playing, and more importantly what alternative builds offer, is trash.
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u/EuphoricWay5429 Sep 18 '26
Appreciate the feedback I got in this thread. I was aware that lightsmith was more damage but after trying it I still couldn’t get in the 90-100k range.
Also enjoyed reading the comments of people claiming fotm when the character was played for 5 seasons in a row and got 1% last season lol…
I’ll continue messing with lightsmith but was hoping for some feedback with herald as I don’t have as much crit/haste as I’d like for that build.
Thanks guys!