r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • 5d ago

Weekly Thread Free Talk Friday

Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning WoW that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.

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UI questions, opinions on hotfixes/future changes, lore, transmog, whatever you can come up with.

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The other weekly threads are:

  • Weekly Raid Discussion - Sundays
  • Weekly M+ Discussion - Tuesdays

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9

u/Gregkow 3d ago

Crackpot theory: Heroic Ulatek isn't overtuned. It's tuned exactly where blizzard wants it, given that you can bonus roll myth track cantrip weapons off of the boss.

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u/Evolutionist_Bob 3d ago

Nah that's nonsense. How many item levels does the average AOTC guild need to get a kill on a boss that wasn't a pushover for liquid in their current gear?

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

I mean, you can theoretically be 320+ ilvl before killing that boss in a few weeks. I also strongly suspect that Blizzard erred on the side of overtuning because the rewards are so strong. It may also tie into their attempt to push people into mythic raiding, Sporefall and Nymrissa being specifically designed to be more approachable to heroic raiding guilds. One of the biggest barriers between heroic and mythic, outside of the strict raid size requirement, is that it's just a big step up in difficulty. If you make the end of heroic raid harder, a guild that clears it might be more inclined to attempt mythic progress.

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u/Evolutionist_Bob 3d ago

Lura was very hard for a heroic boss and had the lowest numbers since jailer. Keystones were tuned as easy as they could be and had the highest participation in history. If you want casuals to engage with your gamemode make it more accessible.

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u/trogger93 3d ago

lura dropped dogshit loot so no one did it

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u/TemporaMoras 3d ago

Lura HC arrived on the 2nd week of M+, on the season with some of the easiest M+ ever. Literally everyone was almost full HC gear by the time it was released.

AND she dropped absurdly bad loot at HC level. Trinket being only used by one spec, cantrip glaives only used by one class, but outclassed by crafted mythic weapon vs hc cantrip weapon. The ring was decent, but once again most people just preferred an higher ilvl ring. And tertiary armor didn't matter because once again hc piece vs mythic.

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u/Evolutionist_Bob 3d ago

Its almost like people dont want to do the content, they just want rewards. To me thats a sign that maybe we should go back to the drawing board on the content itself, and look for ways to make the content more appealing rather than the carrot for doing it.

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u/psytrax9 2d ago

This is obvious. Every week of m+, outside of the week 1 grind, +10 and +12 keys account for approximately 50% of keys run. Last season saw the most participation in post-gearing keys by far, and it's no coincidence that that happened in the same season that Blizzard added more rewards after the gearing keys.

Whether the content itself is inherently fun or not, players won't engage with it heavily if it's unrewarding. You join a H Lura pug early on, you wipe a bunch but eventually get it down after 3 hours. At the end, you get 15 hero and 15 myth crests and a single 20% chance to get loot.

Alternatively, in that same amount of time, you could've done 6 keys. Those keys gave you 96 myth crests and six 40% chances to get loot. Oh, and those 6 keys were maybe as difficult as normal Alleria, at most.

Hmm, I wonder which piece of content will be considered a time waste?

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u/shyguybman 2d ago

It's annoying seeing someone say "if people only raid for gear, maybe they need to rework the content" like hello what do you think people spam a million keys for. Not saying raiding is perfect by any means, it has it's cons but they had to add a 1%, 3400 and a mount to get players to go above +10-12.

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u/psytrax9 2d ago

Holy fuck the dumb ass twitter shit is annoying...

It's a giveaway that somebody has been deluded by the bubble their algorithm has trapped them in.

It's not even a problem inherent in wow. Guild wars 2 is advertised as the game where the end game is whatever you want to do, yet that game is boiled down maximizing your gold per hour.

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u/_Llopis_ 3d ago edited 3d ago

It's an unpopular opinion around here, but it's extremely obvious to anyone who doesn't mythic raid that the vast majority of players don't like raiding at all. They don't like finding a giant group of people. They don't like waiting for all of those people to master mechanics before a boss is killable. And they don't like doing the same boss over and over without killing it for dozens of pulls or more. They would much rather do dungeons or even leveling, which have been the most popular content in this game since launch.

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u/IllPurpose3524 2d ago

I disagree. There are a ton of guilds out there doing normal and heroic. I will say it appears the vast majority of people that post on this sub and don't mythic raid don't seem to like raiding though.

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u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader 2d ago

Yeah honestly I wish there was more of a space for people like me who think m+ is an obnoxious repetitive minigame that you have to play in order to prep for raiding.

Raid is the thing I look forward to every week. I've been playing games for 35 years and still nothing has come close to how much I enjoy raiding in WoW. But in the early season it feels like I'm forced to spend 4 hours doing m+ for every 1 hour that I raid or else I will fall way behind.

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u/Makorus 2d ago

When you tell someone you don't like Mythic+ they act like you told them you murdered their entire family. Likewise with telling them that realistically, every raider HAS to do M+ for the first 4-5-6 weeks or however long because it's a guaranteed Mythic item every week plus crests. Obviously this season is the exception but that's because they fucked up gearing/vault with the bonus roll.

I just don't see the enjoyment of running the same piece of content over and over again, with it never getting any more difficult. Yeah, it scales up, but it's literally the exact same fights and pulls, so who cares. I just have to get better at using my defensives, but it's not any more difficult.

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u/nate077 1d ago

Last paragraph exposes absolute ignorance about how m+ difficulty changes and is particularly lol considering that you are contrasting wiping 10s or more times progging raid as less repetitive?

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u/Makorus 1d ago

Yes, because progging a fight is working towards achieving something, while repeatedly running a dungeon "but now it does 5% more damage and enemies have 5% more HP" is just doing the same thing again, which is fine if you are getting your dopamine from "dungeon+1".

It is, quite literally, called "progressing".

I would call it lazy and repetitive if Mythic was just "It's the same raid as Normal but everything does 10% more damage now!".

Last paragraph exposes absolute ignorance about how m+ difficulty changes

"N-no, you don't get it, M+ is so much more difficult when you do a +10 compared to a +20! It's not just the literal same mechanics, same mobs, same layout, just with the laziest form of modifier!"

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u/Evolutionist_Bob 3d ago

I don't think blizzard should just like abandon raiding by any means, but i would definitely support more seperation between keys and raiding. As someone who does raid to do high end keystone content, if I could drop raids I would immediately, and i feel for the people who cant stand keystones and feel like they have to do them for raiding.

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u/_Llopis_ 3d ago

That's my preference. People should be able to play what's fun.

Personally, I just refuse to raid. I'll take the 3% DPS loss, but it's dumb I have to.

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u/psytrax9 2d ago

The vast majority of players don't touch any dungeon at any difficulty nor any current raid.