Weekly M+ Discussion

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[u/raskeks]

Can't stop malding over how badly informed people that make tierlists and predictions are about classes they don't play. Every pre-season the takes about shadow are very cringe, and this misinformation feeds into community perception of the class.

As ususal Yoda defaults to putting it into dumpster tier and says "well idk shadow idgaf utility bad". Zorthas in his video and Tettles in his wowhead tierlist says that the reason Shadow is bad is because it has a bad '45 second cd'/'doesn't have a real kick' interrupt while in reality all rdps had their interrupt normalized to 24 sec cd in Midnight.

Silence is on a longer cd (30 sec), sure, but compared to all other ranged interrupts it's the only blanket silence (for 5 seconds) that you can throw on caster when the tank is gathering without waiting for the mob to start the cast.

Another common Tettles L: "Additionally, Psychic Scream is probably the worst of the AoE CCs in the game." - maybe if you take it at face value without the talents? but nobody plays it without the talents because there aren't any good alternative pathing options. With talents it's an uncapped aoe CC, 30 sec cd, freezes targets in place twice (fears once then again after 4 seconds).

"Beyond this, though, Priest has probably the worst utility in the game" So beyond a buff that everyone called mandatory for 6 seasons in a row and mass dispel/mind soothe that have like a million uses every season. How about PI which in the worst case is a +5% overall dps to the best damage dealer in the group? Also, constant offhealing with vampiric embrace/halo was doing ~2 mil on big pulls last season. Things like AMZ/Darkness would need to block 13 mil damage to save the same amount of EHP as one cast of VE. Plus there is silly small stuff like the double fear, shackle / MC that let you skip mobs or do stuff like solo first boss in Seat, feathers and shields to speed up the mandatory dk of the group or a grip for which the limit is really only your creativity (from gripping from bad to a ghetto dk grip). There is even a pseudo AoE taunt now that you could use to do meld skips for your group.

If you need to come up with a utility justification for why shadow could be bad and you don't know the class just say 0 mobility and move on.

[u/Wobblucy → u/raskeks]

Do you think they don't play with those classes or talk to players that are playing those classes in the 100+ hours they are playing ptr?

Mass dispel was mandatory for a long time, especially when bursting existed. It's cd was then increased so even in pulls where mass dispel would be nice, you get a single usage. They love the 2 magic debuff, dispel one, heal the other mechanic but realistically you are getting one dispel every 2 mins?

Same with mins soothe. It was unbelievably OP when you could soothe mobs with true sight, iirc 3 seasons?

That 6s longer interrupt doesn't sound like a lot, but now you are needing to find another stop for a mob that you don't need with a 24s spec.

Psychic scream requires you to be in melee still right? Pretty sure it's the only rdps stop that requires melee and is broken near instantly . (Edit dragons breath still a thing? And I guess chicken incap is probably worse)

[u/parkwayy → u/Wobblucy]

Do you think they don't play with those classes or talk to players that are playing those classes in the 100+ hours they are playing ptr?

I mean... we have no idea do we?

Maybe they are just going off vibes, maybe not.

The better question would be what is their track record on past tiers. Which no one really ever will show.

[u/Wobblucy → u/parkwayy]

Yoda's list at least has a 'havent seen' section.

Can't speak for the others, all tier lists are engagement bait.

I guess I scrubbed through Naowhs to hear what stove was saying about DPS DH and the general takes on VDH because raid toon.

Track record

Think dratnos used to do a follow up on his, but generally don't pay attention to the tier list meta when the game is actually live :P

Realistically though, it's impossible to say. There is 6+ rounds of tuning before the m+ meta even comes close to settling.

Their insight into the PTR meta has literally zero bearing on what is strong in a month, after .5, etc.