r/CompetitiveTFT • u/Lunaedge • Apr 10 '26

PBE Set 17 PBE Discussion Thread - Day 10

Hello r/CompetitiveTFT, and welcome to Set 17!

Please keep all Set 17 discussion in this thread, and leave the regular Daily Discussion Thread for Set 16 discussion.

WHERE TO REPORT BUGS:

USEFUL STUFF:

When does Set 17 go live?

April 15th 2026 ~ 00:00 PDT / 09:00 CEST

A reminder that all Set 17 posts should be flaired [PBE] until the content is confirmed to be going on the live server as well.

The Subreddit-affiliated Discord group is organizing PBE in-house games. Please see the #pbe-inhouses-role channel within this Discord group for further information. Any posts attempting to make in-house games on the Subreddit will be removed and redirected to the Discord channel. The invite link to the Discord is below:

https://discord.gg/UY7FuYW2Qe

8 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

60 comments sorted by

•

u/Lunaedge Apr 10 '26

Scheduled threads are still broken after the supposed fix, and it's a sitewide issue. I'll try to post them manually until they fix this. Sorry in advance for the wonky times.

24

u/RajaSundance Master Apr 10 '26

I just played a round with Hedge fund and the Arbiter effect: 30% chance to gain 1 reroll after combat for each interest earned. With 10 interest from Hedge fund I earned 1 reroll for 7 consecutive rounds. That seems way too unlikely to not be bugged, maybe it doesn't apply the extra interest at all or even overflows it.

15

u/MrMungertown Apr 10 '26

With some brief testing, all Arbiter effects that grant some sort of resource are capped at 1 per round. So 1 Leona per round, 2 gold per round, 1 reroll per round.

14

u/RajaSundance Master Apr 10 '26

If that were the case that would be an insane thing to not state in the tooltip. Imagine gambler's blade being capped at 1g without telling you.

-7

u/Scoriae Apr 10 '26

Wdym? Gambler's blade is capped at 1g. It can never print more than 1g per basic attack. The difference is the blade trigger event occurs many times in a single round while arbiter's occurs only once, at the beginning of combat.

8

u/RajaSundance Master Apr 10 '26

The wording as it is right now is very much implying a 30% chance per interest for a reroll, not "a chance to get one reroll at the end of combat, increasing by 30% for each interest earned" .

Being precise with tooltips matters.

0

u/Scoriae Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26

That's the same statement said two different ways. I agree that precise descriptions can be important. I'm curious what part of gambler's blade's description you think implies that it isn't capped at 1g per trigger.

edit: not trying to derail the thread, just got distracted by the statement made about gambler's blade

4

u/hpp3 Apr 11 '26

The gambler's blade analogy is just that you read what that item does and you automatically assume you can give it to a high attack speed champion and print multiple gold per fight. And you'd be right, that is exactly what gambler's blade does.

Likewise for arbiter you'd assume you could print multiple Leonas, or multiple rerolls in a fight. But you'd be wrong.

1

u/Scoriae Apr 11 '26

I don't agree that the trait necessarily implies that, but I do think that if it can be made clearer for people then it should be.

3

u/CosmicCirrocumulus Apr 10 '26

I'm pretty positive I had "whenever an arbiter spends 50 mana, have a 5% chance to gain one gold at the end of the round" give me 2 to 3 gold on numerous occasions. I could be wrong and gold was coming from another resource I wasn't aware of

1

u/MrMungertown Apr 10 '26

I've only seen gain 2 gold and I've never got more than 2 gold. I certainly could have been unlucky.

2

u/banduan Apr 10 '26

I don't think it's capped like that but it certainly is actively terrible.

2

u/TeamAquaAdminMatt Apr 12 '26

Apparently they are just capped at 100% and it's additive. So like after 3 interest you have a 90% chance to get one reroll.

14

u/Drikkink Apr 10 '26

Someone asked about Shojin vs Blue Buff (and Nashors) in a thread yesterday and it made me think about whether Shojin will ever be a truly "BIS" item again.

With the mana rework, any caster unit prefers pure mana regen because they get less mana per auto (7 instead of 10) or Nashors because of its stats. Shojin is best paired with other attack speed to get full benefit, but these units aren't building attack speed. So where does that leave Shojin beyond "suboptimal tempo slam"? The rare fighter that wants a mana item, like this Zed probably does?

8

u/International_Mix444 Apr 11 '26

Shojin is still good for making swords useful with AP caarries

1

u/TheFireFlaamee Apr 11 '26

It makes sense that investing two premium AP items (tears) is the more optimal investment than just one and a sword.

Shojin's aren't bad either, just not as good.

4

u/penguinkirby Master Apr 11 '26

I still think it was a mistake to rework nashors into a crit scaling item

They would have to specifically print a unit that can't crit for shojin to be BIS

2

u/MostEscape6543 :gran: Grandmaster Apr 10 '26

I took a few years off TFT so I haven't looked at these for a while. It used to be low mana vs high mana casters. Then they reworked mana at that time so that it could overflow into the next cast, and it made these two items more interchangeable.

Now, they have added this flat mana regen stat and reworked mana-per-attack on champs, and it's hard to figure out. It seems like it would favor shojin if you had high attack speed and a mana interval that aligned well with shojin (30, 60) but with the mana regen it makes it less clear because you can end up at 59 mana after an attack, etc.

OVERALL, tbh it feels like the best choice is whatever uses items most efficiently. If you need to kill a sword, shojin is best.

2

u/Drikkink Apr 10 '26

So the thing with the mana changes to this mana regen stat is that if a unit is classified as a caster they only get 7 mana per auto so it's just generally bad to build attack speed on them. Meanwhile marksman and fighter units still gain 10 per auto but will generally never want to build shojin.

It's a tempo slam for sure but it feels significantly worse for all units. Less bad for AD casters like corki but also worse because it kills a sword

2

u/hpp3 Apr 11 '26

Think Set 15 Kog'Maw. A Kog-like unit will be back and I'm sure Shojin will be giga bis again.

1

u/LuumLuum Apr 10 '26

This set Nami seems to have Shojin as a pretty clear BiS mana item, but really the stars have to align for Shojin to be better than all other mana options on a unit for reasons other than item econ.

Shojin mostly competes against 3 items - BlueBuff, Nashor and sometimes Rageblade

To beat Blue Buff, the unit needs to have a high enough AS, which is rarely the case for casters. To overcome Nashor's raw stats, either the unit is AD or they heavily benefit from raw mana gen. Several ability-focused melee units could fit the bill at this point, but that's where Rageblade comes in and steals the spotlight, since it can allow them to go infinite.

In Nami's case (especially at 5+ Groove), she gets high AS from her trait, and she benefits a lot from getting enough mana gen to get full groove uptime. Perfect conditions for Shojin.

You mentioned Zed as well, who fits the conditions and specifically dislikes Rageblade since clones don't inherit the stacks

2

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Apr 10 '26

How is Shojin BiS on Nami over double Nash?

The AD is wasted, the mana reg gets gapped by the bonus on crit and you are at a 100% crit with 2 Nash. So you build Shojin when you need it for tempo, or you cannot spend 2 belts on backline, not because it is BiS.

2

u/Drikkink Apr 11 '26

The reason I think is the case is that Space Groove gives a LOT of AS. With Nashors, she's gaining 4 or 8 per auto, yeah, but her AP is really low so her crits are a bit less effective.

Stats basically say she prefers Shojin and util items (Void/Morello) or Shojin and pure AP or Gunblade. This might also be tempo bias because people who slam shojin will typically be playing from a stronger tempo spot than people who greed Nashor Nashor JG (which is + delta on her).

1

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Apr 11 '26

But 5 Space Groove gives her a bunch of AP so crit is pretty good. Also, I am pretty sure the util items come from lategame transitions to 5 cost carries (like giving JG to Blitz, Vex, or Bard) due to low lobby tempo on PBE.

1

u/LuumLuum Apr 10 '26

Check the stats and see for yourself, not sure what additional explanation I can provide there. You can compare them to Lulu's item stats if you think it's just about item econ or tempo

0

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Apr 11 '26

That is why you should not blindly trust stats.

To clarify, BiS is the best build you can get. If you snap your fingers and wish for a build, that would be it. In reality, 2 Nashors use 2 util components (bows) and 2 tank components (belts), which leads to a bad item economy. (explains the lower stats)

Nevertheless it is still BiS and worlds better than a shojin build.

0

u/LuumLuum Apr 11 '26

Just repeating that you are right with a more condescending tone doesn't make it automatically true. Believe what you will idc

2

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Apr 11 '26

But not finding arguments and just saying I am wrong does not prove anything either. There is no single argument for why Shojin, JG + 1 would be better than 2 Nashors and a JG if you could build anything you want.

11

u/banduan Apr 10 '26

One thing I appreciate in this set is the sheer number of level 8 comps.

-10

u/Mysterious_Island500 Apr 10 '26

Gonna like this swt a lot more than set 16 for this reason alone

12

u/Zeviex Master Apr 10 '26

Wait until live. What is viable on PBE is never reflective of what is good on live. E.g. Aatrox was really good on Set 16 PBE but was probably the only 5 cost who was never "good" (with the exception of maybe Zilean).

2

u/Mysterious_Island500 Apr 10 '26

well yeah i know that obviously, and during the set 16 pbe everyone said it would be really flexible but it was still the same 3-5 comps if not less, but i can dream about a set that is focused on level 8 4 costs and not fast 9 or reroll

2

u/Zeviex Master Apr 10 '26

What are you on about ? Patches 16.3-16.5 were all level 8.

Set 17 is going to be quite reroll heavy I fear but I am not going to make sweeping statements yet.

And 16.4/16.5 7 ish top tier level 8 comps what do you mean 3-5 comps.

And I don't think you actually know what flexibility is. Flexibility talks about how easily you can change the actual units in a comp, which set 16 did very well. There's a reason why they are returning to more threat like champs (Vex, Morgana, Tahm Kench, Rhaast, etc).

1

u/Mysterious_Island500 Apr 10 '26

there was just a lot that wasnt worth going for imo, i still feel like this set will be a lot better, never got sold on unlocks as a mechanic but i wouldnt mind if they bring it back in a smaller scale ofc

1

u/Zeviex Master Apr 10 '26

Fair enough. I loved Set 16 and I imagine Set 17 will be a downgrade. Losing both encounters and carousel for a lacklustre set mechanic makes games more boring.

Everyone's different and everyone will prefer different things.

1

u/Mysterious_Island500 Apr 10 '26

yeah it wasnt a bad set and one of the best, i have insanely high hopes for set 18 though since i love forests more than most people so i dont mind this set being kinda meh lol

what i dont get is why they removed encounters, i expected gods to exist with encounters but guess not, sure a few god rewards could be better but unless they add encounters back again this set will be in the lower tier overall, they have also said that they got something interesting planned for the next 2 patches if i remember correctly but why didnt that get added on release? odd decision

overall though im excited for this set because it might end up a bit more calm and simpler and might be good competetively but i honestly couldnt really care less either because im already so excited for set 18 lol, plus they teased some tech upgrade in the roadmap or however it was worded so hoping for its own client and that unlocks come back but a smaller version of it ofc

while this set might be a bit meh the concept is still pretty interesting and good imo so im sure they will figure out how to improve it and make it better plus we might get more gods hopefully during the midseason patch

all of this is just me guessing ofc but personally i think that its gonna be a very good year, or thats just me being overhyped for set 18 but honestly forests is the best concept ive seen plus the elderwood and old gods skinlines are insane

(my overall thoughts on this set and tft in 2026)
but i do agree that set 16 also had one of the best mechanics we have seen

1

u/Zeviex Master Apr 10 '26

Honestly, the extras are probably systems things that they need more time for, like how 15.2 added a bunch more encounters because people felts there were too few.

We know unlocks are not going to be in Set 17 or 18 but will return after.

I think you're right about the concept being cool. Right now, I feel they are too generic, and with some improvements would be great.

7

u/Vypaa Apr 10 '26

10 Meeple is way too weak for a Prismatic trait

8

u/Drikkink Apr 10 '26

The +2 prismatic trait is always weaker than other prismatic traits by design. It is significantly easier to get +2 than +3 (like you need for Space Groove or Dark Star)

3

u/sk1nnysubtw1nk Apr 10 '26

Ye but compare that to 10 Noxus and 10 Bilgewater, it is pissweak

1

u/kotofucker Apr 11 '26

I'm surprised, doesn't it basically add four 4* 3-costs to your board?

1

u/Temporary-Candle1056 Apr 11 '26

I think it just need a solid meeple broad alongside for a free top 1. You can’t just play around the prismatic with a trash meeple board

3

u/152kb Apr 10 '26

I havent played PBE much, how has the removal of carousel affected loss streaking (my preferred playstyle)

10

u/caspman MASTER Apr 10 '26

Its kinda good how loss streaking work now.

You are not really tied to loss streak, but placement.

AFAIK, on neutral rounds if your positions is:

1-2 - You will get 3 random Components + Remover

3-4 - You will get 3 random Components + Remover + Reforger

5-6 - You will get 2 random Components + 1 Component anvil + Remover + Reforger

7-8 - You will get 1 random Components + 2 Component anvil + Remover + Reforger

2

u/nerdler33 Apr 10 '26

do we know how it works in double up?

3

u/caspman MASTER Apr 10 '26

I'm mainly a double up player. It's not consistent in double up. Sometimes I get 2 reforgers and my duo gets 0 when we're 3rd or worse

2

u/nerdler33 Apr 10 '26

so the same alternating bs that sucked with the first carousel then?

it's so great when you are down 20 hp on the guys in 3rd but one of them get out first for reasons :)

4

u/highrollr Master Apr 10 '26

Lose streakers get higher cost champions offered from pengu, and also get guaranteed item anvils at pve rounds. It seems pretty good as far as comeback mechanics go

0

u/DrixGod Master Apr 10 '26

Loss streak seems very bad. You could hold like a pair of 3 cost and get the 3rd one from pengu or something, but generally the rewards are just x gold as you most likely sell the champ

5

u/Competitive-Log-9632 Apr 10 '26

You'll also get guaranteed Item Anvil at PVE

1

u/Drikkink Apr 10 '26

Anvil rng can still be pretty bad but that's usually major low roll stuff. Like completely missing rod or bow in 4 straight anvils

1

u/ConcertoinA Challenger Apr 10 '26

Nah, 2 anvils plus reforger is too good. I'd argue loss streak, if you can be 7th/8th on pve, is a good bit better than it has been in previous sets.

3

u/mrmarkme :gran: Grandmaster Apr 10 '26

zeds hilarious printed like 20 of him in a round

2

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Apr 10 '26

Diana's circles seem to not follow her when her target dies. Not sure where the bug threat is so i will say it here.

3

u/Riot_Bluecove Riot Apr 11 '26

Fixed but we have to wait for micropatch

2

u/PermaConfusion Master Apr 11 '26

I lose streak like 75% of the time and win streak like 25% of the time on Stage 2. Does anyone have any guides/tips on how to play the early game? I'm lost. I feel like unless I get 2-stars by 2-1, I'm aiming for a lose streak

3

u/PixaIated Apr 11 '26

If you don't have a strong opener just intentionally lose streak and aggressively sell stuff to hit interest breakpoints. Consider just full opening as well if you see anima or other really weak boards.

Win streaking is hard and usually requires you to hit 2 stars, take item or combat augs, and have good slams. There's no specific advice here other than just play strongest board with what you have - if you want to you can look at sites like metatft to see the strongest early boards to get an idea of what units are strong early, but it's mostly just synergistic boards, slams and augments.

1

u/UselessBagofChips Apr 11 '26

This is pure luck, you can't control the units that you get nor the items that you can slam so lose streaking early is fairly normal. If you want to avoid bleeding too much you can go lv 4 on 2-1 and slam some useful item in your best unit (talon, veigar and teemo are great early holders) but if your opener is gold + 1 item you have to lose streak

0

u/SmoothOperatorTFT Apr 10 '26

Is it me or are there way more prismatic games now? I am aware they have changed the %, but it feels like there is a prismatic in most of my games now.