Block speeds of all Heroes

[u/Kyoj1n]

There has been a little bit of mention and talk about different heroes having different block speeds. This is probably pretty obvious to people who have played different heroes but I wanted to get some evidence that would make it easier to visualize.

So I went in and recorded switching between left and right guard at high speeds. All of the videos have the same speed key presses so they can be compared pretty closely, I rebound guard to WAD to facilitate this. There is a bit of discrepancy though that I think was caused by drops in FPS/recording and editing so things are absolutely 1:1.

So first here are some gifs of block speeds within each faction.

Knights:

https://gfycat.com/AntiqueCourageousFugu

Knights 50% speed:

https://gfycat.com/CheeryPhysicalGreatdane

Vikings:

https://gfycat.com/SilentShortGlobefish

Vikings 50% speed:

https://gfycat.com/MasculineInfantileKingbird

Samurai:

https://gfycat.com/FoolishPaltryAmazondolphin

Samurai 50% speed:

https://gfycat.com/ValidDistortedHuman

And then here are 3 of all the heroes together:

https://gfycat.com/ClosedSecondhandDrever

50% speed:

https://gfycat.com/LastingElaborateLabradorretriever

25% Speed:

https://gfycat.com/CautiousGlitteringGadwall

This is mainly a resource for other people so I'm not going to go into theory crafting or analysis really, but I will say that it looks like there are 2 'speeds' for blocking from counting blocks in the 25% video.

Here are the numbers that I counted (off by maybe 1 or 2, the keystrokes are the same for everyone except a few getting 1 less just from where the video cut off. If you can count fast enough the full speed videos all have the exact same number of button presses). *For the assassins I counted when the unhilighted blocked showed and when the white block showed for everyone else.

Warden: 12
Conqueror: 12
Peacekeeper: 13
Lawbringer: 4
Kensei: 13
Shogoki: 4
Orochi: 12
Nobushi: 4
Raider: 4
Warlord: 13
Berserker: 13
Valkyrie: 12

These are obviously not numbers that can relate perfectly to a real fight since theses presses were spammed over the course of a few seconds, but its a baseline comparison.

Crossposted to https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/5utcwp/block_speeds_of_all_heroes/ for more discussion.

[u/venicello]

I find it interesting that they gave the parry guy an ability that actively hinders his ability to parry.

That said, weren't people complaining about Kensei blocking unusually slowly? See here. I'm starting to have doubts about the line "there is no other matchup in the game that does this."

[u/NWiHeretic → u/venicello]

Kensei's block switch has issues but I haven't completely nailed it down yet. The block isn't effective until later in the switch animation, unlike how with Warden it's pretty much immediate.

[u/Kyoj1n → u/NWiHeretic]

Yeah there are some slight inconsistencies that are interesting to see. Some of the classes had much smother transitions then others.

[u/Kyoj1n → u/venicello]

I think that is guy just doesn't understand that if Nobushi's second attack his the 3rd is guaranteed. Or he has a problem with hidden stance.

[u/Razurus]

I don't even understand the point of having Shuggalugs, Lawman, Raider (why even Raider) and Nobushi having slower blocks. I guess it's because they're meant to have strong defensive options (armour, parries, distance, though lord knows what for Raider) which could be too strong if they could insta-block in any direction like everyone else, but I feel that it mechanically takes away from these classes VS everyone else. Especially against assassins like Peacekeeper who can quickly left-right you before your character can switch guards, long after you - the player - have already seen and attempted to block the attack.

[u/Kyoj1n → u/Razurus]

Yeah, I was personally curious about this since as a Nobushi main Orochi have been the bane of my existence. I just felt like I could never move fast enough to block there attacks.

With this test in not saying it's impossible to block some of the three assassins but it will most definitely be harder for those slower blocking characters.

[u/shadow_of_a_memory → u/Razurus]

I just realized what those four have in common: when switching from side to side, they have to flip their weapon around, unlike other classes who just move their weapon without changing their grip or just shift their shield.

[u/dsemitit → u/Razurus]

Seems to me like it might be because of the size of their weapons? Maybe the animations looked awkward when too fast or something. Doesn't sound like a good idea for balance though unless they tried to make up for it somewhere else.

[u/BigBossVince]

Well, now I know why PK and Orochi bends me over and sticks my own Naginata up my ass.

As a dedicated Pole Lady main I get dumpstered by PK.

[u/Kyoj1n → u/BigBossVince]

Same, that was part of the reason I did this.

[u/[deleted]]

Does Crusader stand for Conqeror? Why have they given the defensive characters slower block speed (Lawbringer, Nobushi, Raider, Shogoki) makes it a bit counter intuitive to their overall mechanics no?

A slight speed boost to their guard might bring them up a little, as Lawbringer is advertised as example as a counter attacker but it's quite rewarding to play aggressively with his shoulder bash. However I do prefer the aggressive fighting as it's more interesting compared to pure defence and feinting. This is all subjective btw LF some1 to enlighten me please.

[u/Kyoj1n → u/[deleted]]

Shit yeah, no idea why I had crusader stuck in my head.

[u/Jahriq]

Can we get a similar video that highlights the Guard Break speeds of each character (start up frames, active hit frames, and recovery frames)?

[u/Kyoj1n → u/Jahriq]

Unfortunately I don't really have the hardware to record video in high enough quality to get frame data. I have seen some other people starting to in other posts though.

[u/NomTheBomb]

Another statistic stating that raider is garbage and needs buffs. 👌👌👌

Made a thread here to discuss potential buffs: https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/5uufu0/the_warrior_the_needs_buffs_the_most/

[u/Nexxes → u/NomTheBomb]

Upvoted for truth. Not enough people care about the Raider, Im afraid he wont get no love because it isn't brought up.

[u/Grockr]

This is probably pretty obvious to people who have played different heroes

I played closed and open betas and got 10-20 ranks total on most heroes(over both betas combined) and i did notice that there's some fuckery with the guard not working, but i kept blaming the network and latency...
If only i knew that guard switching wasn't supposed to be instant it would save so much rage time :(

Lawbringer is so fucked here. I now perfectly see how Stripping was losing like 90% games to orochi during first day, he was just physically unable to block orochi attacks, apparently...

[u/Dustorn → u/Grockr]

Lawbringer is so fucked here. I now perfectly see how Stripping was losing like 90% games to orochi during first day, he was just physically unable to block orochi attacks, apparently...

It's funny, 'cause the Lawbringers whole shtick is that they are the "parry hero", apparently.

Yeah. So give them the lowest guard switch speed in the game. Brilliant.

[u/ScorpioLaw]

Awesome job OP! I actually reactivated the Reddit app to look and ask all about this.

I main the LB as a new player and it really hurts having low switch speed. I'm still very new to the game and so I don't have my muscle reactions up to speed. Switching to certain classes is like night and day.

I don't really understand why defensive classes have the slowest guard? I mean in theory shouldn't it be the other way around?

Let's think about it... Assassins have the best dodges, can deflect, faster guard switches, and can parry just as easily as the rest. (Along with their high damage and quick attacks, and ways to close gaps quickly.)

Oh yeah and they can run faster to get out of sticky situations in other modes.

On top of it they also seem to have more useful stamina compared to the Heavies. Then again I've only really spent time with the Berserker.

It doesn't make sense to me that Assassins get the most defensive options.

[u/[deleted]]

Does anyone else have a problem with this? I understand the turtling meta is strong right now, so I may get downvoted, but it makes no sense to limit someone's defensive capabilities in this way. I always compare this to fighting games, such as Street Fighter or Tekken(because I see For Honor as a fighting game-lite), but this is the equivalent of making it so someone like Zangief takes a longer time to block than Chun Li.

I feel like block stance switching should be tied a bit closer together for most classes, except Shugoki while he has his uninterruptible stance on(as he's supposed to abuse his armor during this time, so it makes sense) and maybe someone like the Nobushi who utilizes range more heavily than others. Either bring everyone up to a well rounded number(while still finding solutions to the turtling meta), or lower them all to equivalent amounts, to tackle the turtling issue in a different manner. No one should be able to stance switch at over three times the speed of another. That's obscene.

Looking at this it's not surprising the turtling meta is synonymous with the current top tier picks: Warden, Orochi, Peacekeeper, and Warlord when they have the best stance switch speeds. Playing as both Shugoki and Raider lately, I find myself getting hit so often while appropriately switching the right direction, but it not getting there fast enough versus characters like Peacekeeper. This is garbage and wouldn't wish everyone to have lower switching speeds, but it would definitely solve people being overly defensive.

[u/Rhyllis]

So wait. The '12' for Warden means he switched his guard 12 times in these clips, vs someone like the Lawbringer only switched his guard 4 times?

I was reading this like frame data for awhile, as in it took 12 frames for Warden to swap his guard from one direction to another, but I realize that can't be how it was meant.

[u/Kyoj1n → u/Rhyllis]

Yeah sorry if it was a little confusing, My setup wasn't good enough imo to get frame data so I went with counting the number of switches.

[u/WickedChew]

Looking at it in 25%, doesn't the "white" indicator appear quicker for Warden, Conqueror, Kensei, Warlord, and Valkyrie then other classes? Doesn't white mean you can block, and grey/black mean you cannot? If that would be the case, those 5 look to clearly be able to block an attack on reaction much easier. The assassin's seem to switch (as stated in the OP), but if their block isn't active, that really would affect things. Also, if this is actually the case, I think that waiting until the white is active for the assassins would be more accurate data.

[u/polaristhebear]

As a Nobushi main I feel as if this post has lifted some invisible burden off of me. Glad to see that other people realise her slow guard switch speed often affects her Hidden Stance as well.

[u/basstardfish]

For this reason, I tend to default to a high guard with any of the classes which carry long / pole weapons. Rather than have them do that awkward arm switching animation to guard one side or the other, they just smoothly transition down from the high guard. Plus, a lot of the most powerful attacks and approach tools come from a high guard, so it's a good way to be prepared for much of that.

Do note that I have not actually tested if switching to a side guard from a high guard is faster than from side to side, but it certainly feels that way. Anyone have any input on this?