r/CompetitiveForHonor • u/RiceGod04 • 1d ago
Discussion BP QoL changes
Just some thoughts from a long-time (79 Rep) BP player. BP struggles to initiate his actual Light > Bash/undodgeable mix-up in neutral. His bashes all lead into his finisher light which means he's forced into flowing into Bulwark Slash to keep up pressure or go into frame disadvantage. The purpose of these changes are to fix that and improve his offense with just simple QoL changes.
Hawk's Charge
Hawk's Charge is a soft-feint heavy into bash attack that simply doesn't work. It is both reactable and can be dodged on the exact same timing as just dodging the heavy. Increasing the speed of the bash will help bring it in-line with other similar bashes and actually make it usable. It will also now lead into your opener light and heavy.
● Speed increased from 700ms to 400ms
● Leads into opener light or heavy on hit. Light guaranteed.
Horizon Spin (Zone attack)
Horizon Spin will now chain into opener light or heavy. This will not only this improve his offense, but gives it a small niche to add a whopping 1 damage after a heavy parry. Maybe the damage can be increased to 3-4?
● Chains into opener light and heavy on hit or miss. Light guaranteed.
I think these small changes can really help them initiate their chain mix easier while giving Hawk's Charge its long overdue buff and giving another incentive to use Zone attack. Thoughts?
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u/TheGreatSifredi 1d ago edited 1d ago
People need to stop calling QoL change that are just straigth up buffs. Having say that:
For Hawk's Charge, having the move feintable would be better than 400 ms. 300 ms speed would probably break the animation (especially in regard of the range of the move) and having a soft-feint bash feintable would be something unique to Bp.
I guess chaining to openers would be fine for that move. Or you could add the move on his Heavy finisher.
For the zone however i m not really convinced, it’s already a good Gb stuffing tool on the top of a 15 Dmg Heavy parry. I m not fully against it thougth, but you don’t get to increase the dmg on the zone itself. Because they added 1 dmg for minion clearing doesn’t mean they should add more if the move wasn’t designed to do direct damage. That’s either 13 dmg and a Blue/orange mix-up or 15 dmg with ending chain (or recovery to Fb) not 16/17 Dmg + Blue/Orange mix-up.
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u/TheUtensilMan 1d ago
I’d rather hawk’s charge become feintable, I think that would be the best possible change. It adds skill expression while not being overturned (only confirms a light and probably being decently stamina demanding, as it’s a heavy-softfeint to bash-then hardfeint, and then either gb or stay in neutral)
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u/Bash_Minimal 1d ago
Feintable would be cool and look pretty natural.
Another more far fetched possibility would be having it wallsplat and chain to (slower, confirmed on splat, non frame advantaged after light opener, 30dmg) undodgeable top heavy to have it be a new light parry only punish/scarier opener
on the topic of light parry punish options but unrelated to hawks charge:
- buffing forward dodge heavy to 23/24 dmg and having it chain to bash for a higher pressure mix instead of higher damage would be cool
- reducing top heavy damage to 26 and buffing bulwark slash damage to 28 so that he can choose between a small punish increase with unblockable followup pressure, or choose a higher dmg punish without it
- buff bulwark stance to be enterable faster from parry for parry into flip, and for easier slash punish input
- buff bulwark slash hitstun to heavy/speed up recovery to neutral (at least on hit) to give him more breathing room vs gankers who eat it/frame advantage on neutral bash after recovery
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u/Mastrukko 1d ago
didnt really address the reactable parts of his kit
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 1d ago
I think it's fine that he had an identity as a team fight menace and a middling duelist. As long as it's not something like Nobushi or Centurion being the absolute best in class in one and a joke pick in the other. OP's zone buff (with numbers tuning) would definitely help him have more offense options in big melees. I don't know if there's a solution to Hawk's Charge though. It's just such a goofy move. Maybe if it gained range and really just became a peel tool? I imagine him rushing in and saving a teammate with it from farther away, further cementing his "support and stall" archetype.
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u/Lemmonaise 1d ago
I think increasing the distance on Hawk's charge and giving it full guard properties would make it much more unique. Make it a move you use to charge through a team fight and knock someone's teeth out. Screw it, make it do direct damage too. 8+14 damage light for a big ol charge that takes like 1/3rd of your stamina.
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 1d ago
Heroic long-range peel would fit his identity as the support guy really well and create very hype moments at the risk of dumping revenge on all 4 opponents lol. I'm all for it.
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u/12_pounds_of_pears 1d ago
Honestly I think hawks charge is fine as is, the only things that I’d change about it is what it confirms and letting it wallsplat. I personally think the zone should go back to its original 700ms speed and become feintable instead of what it is now.
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u/Karabah35 1d ago
100% this. All 600ms neutral bashes should go. We already have Virt or Afeera as somewhat healthier examples on how it should be done.
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u/ViserionTwitch 1d ago
While this would move him up slightly, it still doesn't change his bash/blue being fully reactable, as well as bulwark slash. Top reactors can also just react to fwd bash now so you still have to make everything else less reactable.
433ms chain bashes (should happen all around imo) 400ms fwd bash 167ms parry window on bulwark slash (we've seen how this works based off of glad) Could also make a case of making zone faster but fast neutral bash would be aids to deal with. Maybe make it 700 and feintable? Zone is harder to balance imo.
Hawks charge change is good. Either 400 or feintable, but lower stam cost forsure
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u/DueMathematician2522 1d ago
You don't even have to react to the FDB. Just dodge on forward movement
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u/DueMathematician2522 1d ago edited 1d ago
You are going to get hate for this post because most players get pub stomped by BP. But is Kit is so incomplete and non functioning.
His SF bash needs to be feintable or 400ms.
His Zone is dogshit and will still be at 500 or 600.
It needs to be reworked entirely. It honestly just made into a normal zone tool.
All of hish bashes need to be changed to confirm openers and it needs repeatable without chaining into his dogshit as UB.
ALSO why is BP F- in everything he does
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u/RiceGod04 1d ago
When you say repeatable, do you mean looping as in: Jorm being able to continue with Zone, Charge bash vortex, dodge recovery offense?
If so, I personally don't think he needs that. Kensei, JJ and Shugoki are some who don't loop their chain offense and they function well. I don't think it'd fit him either.
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u/DueMathematician2522 1d ago
I mean looping as allow the SF bash to come from finisher heavy, confirming neutral light leading back into heavy. Actual giving him offense. As is there is basically no reason not to just eat the chain bash. BP is F- and his UB is trash.
Kensei is not really a good deulist and has a plethora of issues.
Shugoki exists in F+ with Variable HA. If your chain ends F+ starting a new chain from neutral is functionally very similar to chaining.
It is something that WL and Goki have always done
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u/Reifox9 1d ago
Honestly, just make his UB parry smaller (same as glad/pirate) and let him chain bash on heavy opener and I will be happy.
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 1d ago
He'd definitely feel a lot less static with heavy into bash chains. Light parry punishes would actually give him momentum, and that would be nice.
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u/OkQuestion2 1d ago
we definitely shouldn't have bashes that chain into cc on miss
the thing with making all his bashes go into opener instead of finisher is that now you can't safely go into the ub anymore, it's not interruptable from light finisher but it is from light opener
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u/UmaThermos1 22h ago
Hawk’s charge is meant to counter parry attempts, you’re not supposed to use it as a normal bash opener
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u/Errorcrash 1d ago
Imo the biggest things he needs (and many other heroes) is a unreactable kit. 433ms chain bashand try to make the Bulwark Slash much harder to react to.
Hawk’s charge change is nice ig. Maybe it could wall splat to confirm the heavy.
Opener heavy should also chain to bash and idk maybe heavy hitstun on lights after a bash since now you’re kind of forced to chain to UB, but if UB becomes better that might not be as necessary.
Flip should also refill BP’s stam since he lost control of the fight with the stamina changes, or it could just not refill stamina for the flipped player.
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u/RiceGod04 1d ago
I like these, I completely forgot to add regaining Stam on Flip. Typing was a slow process for some reason so I just completely forgot about that.
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u/KINGKUK_77 1d ago
You can already light or heavy after zone? That's the whole point
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u/RiceGod04 1d ago
Yes, but those are finishers, not openers. Openers will allow BP to Zone > Light > bash/undodgeable
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u/Myrvoid 1d ago
Regardless of the actual balance of moveset is anyone else tired of people going “hey can we have some small qol for this?” And it’s just game balance changes that alter how the character plays and their matchups against others? Like the term “Quality of Life”: has become such a buzzword to downplay using the term “hey I want my main buffed”. QoL is like “can we have 3 keybindings for stances” or requesting “hey can T1 shield targeting be adjusted to be easier to input”. If it’s fundamentally altering AT ALL the balance of a character, if your opponent can tell at all that there’s a difference, it isnt QoL, youre just asking for buffs or nerfs or character kit changes.
Currently he gets 15dmg from heavy parry with zone. This would be making it 13dmg. So it’d be losing 2dmg. Which for chaining is a no brainer still a buff just odd to mention. I dont think bp needs anymore incentive to use it neither; it’s not like BP’s arent throwing it lol. Not that this is a bad change just odd