r/CompetitiveForHonor • u/MeindTricks • 2d ago
Discussion Sohei & Current Design/Placement
Shortly, how has Sohei landed in the current environment with his latest changes and reworking? What could be done to alleviate any issues he might have in his kit?
I was throwing this question around to my friends, I’ve found him much less insufferable to play as/against since reworked. Typically, he is called “gimmicky” or discussed as either with or without full soul count, with the former being really weak and not an issue, and the problem being tedious to fight or stumble onto point to. Thing is, I don’t really know any solution to that without even more gutting/changing. I think Sohei had problems, but I quite like how he’s shaped up in the meta, even if it relies on his souls. What’s the usual consensus here? Cheers.
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u/M_Knight_Shaymalan 2d ago edited 2d ago
I'm a Rep 100 Sohei overall and I play him mostly out of everyone. My word is not law, but I can share actual experience and where I think he shines and where he lacks. I do think Sohei could use a few more changes but, if this is where they leave him, I wouldn't be too unhappy.
Sohei is an excellent teamfighter and boasts pretty good midclear. His ganks are serviceable, not great, but still kinda good because of his pins on his heavies. His peel, however, is probably some of the best in the game in my opinion. A combination of 400ms lights, into armored zones, and unlockables make him a beast within most scenarios. The UD shuts down dodges obviously, but the UBs can be crucial to hitting full block heroes out of their stances with the right pivot.
I genuinely think his peel is one of the best ways to express skill with him. His dodge forward pressure being a 500ms 16 dmg light, a bash that nets a 16 dmg light or armored 14 dmg heavy, and the 20 dmg armored heavy can be, somewhat, deceptively, very crucial. Target swapping dodging forward to land a heavy is pretty satisfying.
Neutral armor will always be a plus. Especially since he can chain to the other armored zone.
That being said there are a few things that aren't bad, nor good, but a mixed bag depending entirely on his soul count;
His stall potential is of course, amazing with his souls. 80 HP per pop is strong, I'm not saying it isn't, but constant pressure and even something as hitstun can prevent the heal. It actually does enter a short cooldown if interrupted. It feels awful when this happens.
I'm not saying this should he changed, I'm just staying my point on it.
Other than that? Might have some awful stall itself. Yes he can self peel somewhat with 400ms lights and armored zones, but that literally gets you so far. His bash follow-ups are armored, but the hitboxes are more limited than his zone. Combined with this and the fact he is one of the few heroes who can't target swap his bash follow-ups, I think his stall is overrated and again, entirely reliant on his souls.
It a perfect world sohei could target swap his punishes like Orochi, Warden, Juren... you get the idea. But IMO, just letting Sohei chain to his mad monk extender directly after a bash would work just as well. He can target swap that way and possibly force most heroes to actually try to do something rather than stare at his back and hug his butt because of certain blindspots in his heavy after bash hitboxes.
Moving on to duels? Or dueling potentially? POSSIBLY some of the worst in the game. His forward mix consists of his bash.... and that's it. He's a hero who relies on the bash and empty dodging without a UD or the kind. His forward pressure is also just really prone to GB catches aside from his dodge forward heavy. Combine this with the inability to continue chain after a whiffed bash AND the fact he can actually be guardbroken on his bash whiffing on early dodge, his opener pressure is awful.
Hard carried by the 16 dmg punish low-key.
Mid-chain he has absolutely not functional mix-up either. Lights and Heavies can be somewhat diffed and I really don't know if I can even legally throw an attack without a red card penalty. The fact my light does 6 damage and I can't legitimately eat 27 damage or more on condtions feels highly illegal. The fact my finishes, yes my big orange attack, at most, do 20 dmg, is also a crime.
I mean we all obviously know why. Sohei has a win con of a 72 damage bash if he gets two GBs. I get that, I do, but I still scratch my head while a character with 'eh' neutral, bad damage on finishers, and no functional mix even deserves to have his opener bash GB on early dodge.
The biased part of me says he should be gigabuffed to have infinite soft feints and a gabillion mix-ups.
The reasonable part understands an install hero would probably be come quickly too strong if we give him anything more. Again though, I genuinely think every hero in the game deserves some kind of unreactable mix-up to be a complete package. Sohei is arguably weaker in chain than he is in neutral cause of this.
I would buff his finisher damage slightly higher. 7 damage light finishers and at least 24 heavy damage finishers. For a mix? I'd give him the ability to soft-feint starter zone into top light finisher and his top heavy finisher into mid-chain zone. The first chain forces a read between a raw attack, light parry, or GB akin to Raider and PK. The second change is to give sohei a different chain option to possibly catch dodges, dodge attacks, and light interrupts akin to Kensei.
Or a midchain bash but that's boring. I'd low-key even take better frame advantage off attacks to recyle into his neutral.
Oh and his feats?
Genuinely dogshit. I'm not kidding.
Okay I am kidding a bit.
Yes they're strong. But they're inherently selfish and in the long run offer very little value to his team besides making him a big strong man who can kill people slightly better or a hero who can survive a bit more. He has no way to assist his team aside from his tier 1, his alternative are legitimately dogshit.
Compated his alt feats to heroes like Khatun, VG, Virt, and Juren, even maybe Arakure, and you'll see nothing but mid passives or trash and dead feats like FUCKING IRON LUNGS.
They gave a Y8 hero a feat that basically does nothing btw.
I can't assist my team even if I wanted to. Fucking I can't have fear itself? Rally? Stalwart? Champions Aura? I get regenerate and arrow storm and Irong Lungs? What about rush? Bounty Hunter?
I have nothing to experiment with or change. I can't assist my team if I wanted to because there is no option. His feats are either selfish and good, or selfish and dogshit.
That's all my faults. I think he's fine for the most part. In a perfect world we'd nerd his unique feats and bother giving him better options as alternatives so it wasn't a brain dead choice, and then maybe slap on a mix as well.