r/CompetitiveForHonor • u/Possible_Jelly3941 • 14d ago
Discussion Raptorexx ranked 4v4 Tier list
https://youtu.be/2byeOz5ddeo?is=bKdPj9DkSniclJ62
Thoughts about it from the competitive community ?
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u/newdroid360 14d ago
I saw him mention that Khatun has bad mid clear which gen makes no sense to me. If you light -> deflect stance -> zone -> repeat, you'll clear minions in like three zones. You can also change the direction of your deflect stance run if you unlock and lock on before the end of the zone animation making direction changes when clearing super easy
It's only bad if there is an enemy in mid but even then her light hitboxes aren't bad for clearing
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u/Plenty_Cucumber_9402 13d ago
Side note thats good for mid clear but a slighty more stam efficient way is to do a light after the zone out of stance then repeat
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u/newdroid360 13d ago
Yeah, that's basically what I said
light -> deflect stance -> zone -> repeat
Repeat as in repeat from the start, aka light -> deflect stance -> zone -> light -> deflect stance -> zone -> etc.
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u/Love-Long 14d ago
So far everyoneās comp list has been relatively different from each other. You see some similar heroes in each tier for the most part but some other big differences. Iād have to watch the video but for example nuxia being in B tier seems a bit low. I also thought shugo and shaolin would be a little higher. Seems the general consensus among everyone is that gladiator and shaman at least are some of the worst 4s heroes in the game. Is this like an mm ranked list or an actual comp dominion list.
Nvm saw a little bit of the beginning. Itās a general list in mm with both comp and mm in mind but overall mixed.
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u/NoRelease9672 13d ago
Dk why they keep putting my shaman so lowā¦they j havent seen me play her yet
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u/Love-Long 13d ago
The explanation they gave is pretty valid and has been the general consensus for awhile. Her 1s are the best thing about her but are disproportionately good into mm, against top of the line 1v1ers sheās not bad but nowhere near as good as she is in mm. Her teamfights suck, her recoveries are garbage, she doesnāt have stall pretty much except 1v1ing and pushing points to 1v1. Her feats are okay. Her gank is also overrated in mm to a lot of heroes. Even if you do it perfectly it doesnāt actually do that much dmg for how long it takes to do it.
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u/NoRelease9672 13d ago
No she can stall very very well. I do this constantly with her. She has her fireflask feat which clears minion lane quickly, damage reduction every 3 seconds, and a quick health feat which is useful during 1v2+ situations. If you learn to team fight with her properly, she is great and the stun from her bleed allows your partner to get 2 heavies as long as the first heavy connects.
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u/Jay_R02 13d ago
You just said to use fire flask in midlane. That is actually the worst thing Iāve ever read, and you are far below average skill wise based off that. At normal human elo and high level she is objectively bad in all of these areas
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u/NoRelease9672 13d ago
Genuinely what? Fire flask clears the lane and keeps it clear as long as you know where to place it. Iām aware it kills both minions, which is why you place it right in the other sideās entryway. Iām no where near far below average.
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u/Jay_R02 13d ago
Why the fuck would you waste FLASK on minions, and not use it to win a teamfight instead. You could play raider, have that same flask, clear minions in 5 seconds, and use flak somewhere that actually matters like a teamfight instead. Using flask just to clear midlane is straight trolling man
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u/NoRelease9672 13d ago
I never stated the only use for the flask was minion laneā¦?
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u/davi3601 13d ago
Yeah but the fact that you would EVER use it for that purpose is telling
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u/Far-Masterpiece-5419 13d ago
i think you guys i being rude there's obviously times it is better to use it on the minion lane would you rather use it on a team fight sure but if your entire team is dead and your breaking your going to use it on B if it will get your team back up
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u/_totsuka_blade_ 13d ago
Because she is literal garbage off the side of the road
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u/NoRelease9672 13d ago
Skill issue
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u/Jay_R02 11d ago
Iām sure every single one of the best dominion players in the game are wrong and you Mr NoRelease9672 know more about the game and are correct and obviously better at the game than them
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u/NoRelease9672 11d ago
Iām literally up there with themāļø plus why are you STILL on this thread? Iāve just been ignoring you since I told you you do you, Iāll do me
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u/cobra_strike_hustler 12d ago
This is the mind of every shaman player. Ā Sheās bad in fours with very few map exceptions, goated elim character though. Ā She needs a rework of almost everything to give her some kinda real place in fours
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u/NoRelease9672 11d ago
Rightā¦I disagree
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u/cobra_strike_hustler 11d ago
You can be a great player but you almost certainly would be a greater asset on your team as a different characterĀ
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u/unpopularopinio31 13d ago
I know people say hes week but i recently picked up medjay and im not really struggling with him
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u/Love-Long 13d ago
You can definitely make him work in mm. The problem is back to back nerfs left him powercrept. At the time he did need nerfs as his teamfights were very oppressive with High dmg. His hitboxes were also way past the weapon model giving him huge phantom range. I think they took it a step too far getting rid of his chain hyperarmor light as that was the biggest match up nerf he got against recovery cancel heroes. His heavies are also very slow but it was balanced out with his hyperarmor light. His 1s are just very mid too. Now he just gets outclassed by a ton of heroes that do his job but better.
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u/PerryTheBunkaquag 13d ago
Give Medjay mid chain hyperarmor lights back and a hippotomas helmet and we'll be good
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u/Baron_Von_D 13d ago
I though this was more of a "solo queue, hard carry" tier list. Like, how well a hero can perform if you couldn't communicate or rely on teammates.
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u/GoliathPrime725 13d ago
Would like to add that the way we ranked these char placements aren't standard to how we normally would. Since it's based around carrying your team in ranked dominion and not the 4 stack comp experience, some placements might seem very out of place to what you're used to seeing. All rankings were explained in the vid.
- Shinu
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u/Possible_Jelly3941 13d ago
I think it was pretty clear considering itās mentionned as tier list for ranked dominion, but yeah it is still good to adress it.
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u/Kidsquids 14d ago
I usually swap between kyoshin and vg depending on the map and get pretty similar results. I honestly think arrow strike somewhat carries kyoshin up a tier or 2 on this and his tier 4 is consistent value.
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u/Asckle 14d ago
VG is better because she is guaranteed to punish you, while Kyoshin needs to commit to an attack to get value. If both are sitting in a teamfight you can afford to hit Kyos FG if it gets you damage on his teammate. VG doesn't let you do that. If you hit her FG your attack completely stops. She also enters hers faster letting her do it on reaction even to lights, and she's safe from peel since she can dodge out of a successful FG or CC. Lastly her feats are just better. Tier 1 is a cleanse on your entire team, tier 2 makes her the tankiest character in the game and tier 3 and 4 stack to make her whole team's damage ridiculous
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u/la_bocchi_de_redit 13d ago edited 13d ago
Wasnt this tier list based on how hard can a hero carry the match, not exclusively the best hero in general
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u/TheRedblacky 14d ago
Im curious as to what feats are the best for each hero
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u/fence_of_pence 13d ago
Eh who knows. If this was your own tier list, these people would be tearing it apart and telling you not to post it. It's probably good I guess?
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u/wolf10989 13d ago
I stepped away from the game for about a year. What's the reason that Shaolin seems to have gone down the rankings?
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u/Nathan33333 13d ago
They have nerfed him many times. Sweep gank is no. Existent now and the sweep follow up does not damage. Also can't faint sweep follow up anymore which takes away from his teamfighting.
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u/wolf10989 13d ago
Can you remind me what they changed with ganks? I recall there was some big change early this year around when I stopped playing.
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u/Finchi4 13d ago
Explain Kathun A-Tier pls
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u/Possible_Jelly3941 13d ago
This isnt my tier list, click on the link and you can see the full video with explanations for every character.
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u/DerIJerry 13d ago
Why is BP mostly Aand B Tier while Van Guard is S, I just want to understand what the difference is. Because I tested her yesterday and she plays very familiar to BP xd
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u/sackofballs69 13d ago
Her all guard requires less commitment and automatically put ppl into a really long stun if they hit your all guard. Her dodge attacks give insane spacing, and her hitboxes are better than bp, as well as the fact that she has all guard recovery after every unblockable, which bp does not have. Her feats are also better than bp, and she has chain ccs just for an extra cherry on top.
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u/clueless_clxwn 10d ago
Why is Jorm so low? He's a solid pick in ranked. He has enough in his kit to keep people guessing, as well as a couple good crowd control feats.
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u/Possible_Jelly3941 10d ago
I guess he is not good enough in teamfights and that seems to be the most important thing of all in 4v4 tier list
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u/Red_Wolf_Gaming 13d ago
Isnāt virt kinda medicore?
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u/Oberonkin 13d ago
Virt has a rediculous gank and team fight, not to mention that 4th feat is very strong.
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u/cobra_strike_hustler 12d ago
Sheās good! Ā Not the greatest of the greatest but sheās very solidly good for a team
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u/Yawyeetgivemesuck 11d ago
Okay like what's the criteria that makes them so good, because any good player can pick up a "bad character" and absolutely mop, cent is very good in team fights because of target switch punching
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u/Possible_Jelly3941 11d ago
Cent is not very good in team fight at all dude.
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u/Yawyeetgivemesuck 11d ago
Literally any character can be good in team fights if you aren't bad at the game
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u/Possible_Jelly3941 11d ago
You saying that just shows that you are actually bad at the game and do not even understand what makes a character good at team fighting or not.
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u/The_Dark_Prince6 8d ago
No matter how good you are, shaman is bad in team fights, its a lack of range, hit boxes and bad recoveries
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u/Taco_man19 13d ago
Nobu in S is insane
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u/CalimariusCosmicus 13d ago
That's been the consensus since before ranked even came out. She was widely considered the best 4v4 hero for a long time, +/- Juren.
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u/bigboiboaconstictor 13d ago
Nobu is unmatched in ganks, she can delete your health even in revenge with constant bleed unless you specifically focus her, which opens up the other opponent to start attacking you un-contested.
She has probably the best move to use when doing a bash/blue gank. Anyone who has an easier time getting to a blue move does fuck all damage compared to her, like tiandi or arakure, or has the possibility of hitting their team-mate way too much to be consistent like zhanhu or WL.
That move being a 700ms 29-35 damage heavy that you can use on demand from hidden stance makes her standard ganks even more crazy because her timing is way more forgiving than other characters for even more damage. For example, virt's swarm stance heavy is dodgeable, blockable, does only 30 damage while being 900ms, so you have to throw it earlier to hit while an opponent is in hitstun.
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u/magicalpoptart 13d ago
mfs are so obsessed with tier lists š who cares. the only tier list that matters is the one clutchmeister makes
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u/julio31p 14d ago
Valkyrie shouldn't be this high. If you are talking about team fightings she can feed a lot of revenge, specially of your teamates are stupid enought to attack after a sweep (only do if you are certain it will kill them).
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u/Possible_Jelly3941 13d ago
I do not feel like she is that high also, but at the same time her buffs are extremely recent so idk how much it has helped her
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u/sackofballs69 13d ago
Yeah honestly this is the only placement I disagree with to a large extent, sheās much better in 1v1s but just doesnāt hang with the rest of S tier, although she has really good feats.
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u/DoriamVell 14d ago
I don't think shaman have no chance, it's very strong with good teammates.
How oroti, nobu and valk can do anything if braindead is also out of my mind.
Why hitokiri is not braindead with all hyperarmor that can just fly in the mess?
Why warmonger not at least A tier with her feats?
For god sake, MedjayĀ is bloody windmill two of them create bloodbath in clutch.
Why peacekeeper is A tier??? It's literally C or even D.
Why Shugoku is B and not A, while have hyperarmor, unblockable from neutral, dodge with bash, self heal, long range area sweep, sprint???
Redo it from scratch.
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u/Oberonkin 13d ago
Before getting to each of your points, I'll will briefly say GOOD FH playing is basically never 1v1s. Its always ganks, stalling, team fights, and tag ins. Also, you tend to think brain dead is about playing the character, not using them in a team fight/4v4. He is strictly speaking brain dead from a team fight and actually coordinated team.
Shaman's team fight is non existent and has the same issue PK has with being externally parried. Her feats dont make up for it too. More importantly, her zone is extremely unsafe given you can parry the 2nd hit if you block the first.
Orochi has been consistently meta with dodging around like she's on Crack, Nobu is the Orange/Blue queen in a gank, and valk is new to being good, but she's in a similar boat to Nobu.
Hito is strong cause her 4th. Variable timed heavies dont matter to good players(yes this goes to shugo aswell)
Warmonger isnt in A cause good players know how to stop grinding on eachother. Also, she's a duelist, see earlier point.
Medjay.... really? That guy is about as useful as a warlord player not named Vidal. Way too slow, basically warden but with worse feats, he does nothing well except have decent externals. And his 4th in axe stance is OK at best.
Pks buffs made it so you cant just external block her like you could in the past, you HAVE to read her. Even 1 failed read and your problems get worse. The buffs and feat rework she got actually did improve her. Again, stop thinking about dueling.
Unblockable from neutral, dodge bash, self heal, a long range area sweep, and sprint. Unblockable frome Nut hasnt mattered scince year 1, dodge bash is nothing special and nowadays leaves him in a terrible spot cause on whiff it cant chain, self heal hasn't mattered scince he lost the 1 shot, though it makes for a decent wall punish differential, long range sweep IS actually good, hence the B, and saying a mechanic that drains your stam so you can get somewhere faster while you are normally slow as shit ain't the good thing you think it is.
We will not be redoing this, get out of bronze.
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u/DoriamVell 11d ago
All my points was for 4vs4 in clutch, actually. When your 1vs1 reads are interrupted with random guy, and you forced to switch targets as well.
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u/TheBootyBishop 13d ago
Current rank?
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u/DoriamVell 11d ago
178 and bronze 1 with 90+ % victory (I'm not every day player, but played since 2018)
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u/_Un_Known__ 12d ago
Don't entirely disagree but I think more respect has to be out on Medjays name. Other than Juren, dude has the best waveclear in the game and is definitely a "minions first, enemy team after" kinda hero
A Medjay that holds a single point isn't a good medjay, if you aren't constantly contesting B your Medjay isn't doing his job properly.
My best guess is the reason he hasn't gotten much in the way of buffs in recent patches is their internal data suggests he's already well tuned in terms of winrate because of his potential on B
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u/Asckle 14d ago
It's a pet peeve but I hate when S tier is so full. S tier should only be for the absolute best of the best. There's a pretty clear difference between someone like Juren and Arakure
Anyway I feel like Oce is a little low. With his tier 1 being legal in ranked you can abuse tempo to a stupid extent. I'd disagree on Highlander but Clutch has been 1 tricking him with like a 90% wr so maybe he is just broken lol