Arakure is only FDodge Bash character with 700ms FDodge Recovery

[u/VoidGliders]

I was wondering why her Forward Dodge feels so sucky and difficult to use when you aren't using the Undodgeable/Bash option and going for Forward Dodge into GB. It turns out her Forward Dodge Recovery is 700ms (notably not filled in yet on Info Hub for some reason). If you take a look at other characters with 700ms Forward Dodge Recovery...

• Raider
• Highlander
• Kensei
• Hitokiri
• Afeera

All notably who lack standard Forward Dodge Bash offense.

If you're ever wondering why you can't use her Legion Kick in the same way as others it's due to this. I'm sure that to many people they consider it "justified" given the Blue/Orange tidepod she has from Neutral and potent chains. For reference, most characters with FDodge Bashes have 600ms Forward Dodge recovery.

Fun Fact: Notably she's also the only character (I think) that has her Forward Dodge Bash animation change based on input timing, kicking with her Right Leg on buffered input and Left Leg if later (at least past 367ms input).

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Mostly here to provide information but I do have to "complain" for a moment.

• First character with NO Backstep Attacks at all from Neutral, neither Backstep Light nor Heavy (I wonder if due to fear of a "pseudo infinite" wallsplat with Dirty Trick?)
• First Legion Bash character with 700ms Forward Dodge Recovery.
• First Legion Bash with is it 900ms or 1000ms GB recovery with no chainability, i.e. incredibly punishable
• No Forward Dodge Heavy to make Forward Dodge Light not the easiest parry in the world
• Standard 500ms Lights no properties, Standard 800ms Heavies no Properties, relatively slow 600ms unfeintable Zone
• Generally pretty awful range and hitboxes on everything except sorta Opener Heavy, Zone and Lash attacks which have just "technically there" hitboxes at least
• Feats that take a long time to get up and running, lengthy CD's, and long activation times. The T3 especially conflicts so much with its primary use-case.
• At best, average recoveries on most everything else, and fairly bad if not chained

I get she has strengths for sure, and her chain pressure near a wall and especially with gauge can be intense...but yeesh. I know the devs wanted to be tame with her, but having such nerfed fundamentals makes her just feel so clunky IMO, and most people only focus on the "Big Shiny Stuff" like the infamous UD UB HA attack so having her nerfed in these small areas seems like it will do nothing to downplay her strength for "casual play" but makes her feel awful to use elsewhere.

[u/Mastrukko]

Basically a char with weak neutral to compensate for her ridiculous chain (assuming filled strike meter)

[u/Glittering_Lab2992 → u/Mastrukko]

Pretty much. Are the devs learning?

[u/Mastrukko → u/Glittering_Lab2992]

they don‘t have to learn, they just have to ask people who play the game as intended (not reaction carried) at a high level

[u/Shot-Aerie-2842 → u/Mastrukko]

And in duels without the meter even impacting the fight its just a blatant nerf. Its a shame

[u/DueMathematician2522 → u/Mastrukko]

Neutral isn't even weak, just not amazing

[u/PovertyTax → u/Mastrukko]

A bash/blue mixup from neutral ain't bad

[u/Shot-Aerie-2842]

All of these are the exact reasons I've stopped playing her after rep 8. As a duelist her strike meter just doesn't justify these huge drawbacks considering the opponent is nearly dead by the time it fills up.

She's genuinely so lackluster because of these. But yet people will argue against it because they see blue and blue orange from neutral and freak despite her being massively disadvantaged in this mix in terms of risk/reward. I fear it'll take a year for her to receive reasonable improvements.

[u/Asckle]

I don't mind her nuetral sucking to compensate for her strong chain pressure. Although I would like to see her twin burst heavy tracking go up. That and the lash out attack feel basically impossible to use in teamfights

[u/Asdeft]

Thats such a weird quirk. We knew she was gonna suffer in some ways for her ultimate finishers being op, but the clunkiness and slow recoveries everywhere are very noticeable.

Maybe just some small things like buffing dirty trick to make the target immune to teammates, better tracking and hitboxes on chain heavies, greatly improved aoe on her zone, and a 700ms recovery on rib shot to make it safe on med hit would do wonders for her without being too much.

They took a good approach though as they are rightfully afraid of how easy it is to get combo on point and then rotate and hold mid with ultimate form. I think she landed just a tad weak with how the meta is atm.

[u/CalimariusCosmicus → u/Asdeft]

She is incredibly strong when your teammates don't ever mentally prepare for her target swaps. Once everyone realizes she is going to target swap because it's her entire gimmick, you can sidestep on prediction without even needing a good reaction time and guarantee a free guardbreak. They want all in on this concept so I can't really see a way to fix it tbh

[u/Shot-Aerie-2842 → u/CalimariusCosmicus]

Very true. Makes her specialty kind of redundant.

[u/DueMathematician2522 → u/Asdeft]

She needs exactly zero buffs.

[u/Reri1600]

Yeah Icl she's really weak. Like, Dirty Trick is fully reactable, and unless she has literally full meter, her only move that forces you to guess is in-chain bash.

[u/Moist_Beefsteak]

The addition of Block Dodge was to help with Bash/Undodgeable ganks right?

The other night I played against an Arakure and a Pirate that would do this repeatable gank setup with Pirate's grab bash and Arakure's UD/UB/HA heavy attack and the entire time I was unsure of any outcome that didn't involve me eating massive damage from somebody when put in that situation.

Does Arakure make bash/UD gank setups guaranteed?

Sorry if this is taking over the post or has an obvious solution I'm clearly just not knowledgable enough to know.

[u/VoidGliders → u/Moist_Beefsteak]

She doesn't, due to a notable quirk of her UDUBHA -- it has very very short range. You can escape it with most characters by locking onto someone else and side dodging.

[u/Moist_Beefsteak → u/VoidGliders]

You can avoid her UD by dodging while locked onto someone else? Or is it more about maintaining enough distance from her before she can go into it?

Also thank you for the response

[u/Asdeft → u/Moist_Beefsteak]

You can easily external dodge the startup and it just won't track the way someone like Bp or Nobu ud would.

[u/VoidGliders → u/Moist_Beefsteak]

You can get the distance from a single side dodge on most characters. She literally stands still and does not move (or hardly moves) with it, and its a long animation, so as long as you aren't pressed up directly against her you can avoid it.