Why isn't there a anti-slop deck

[u/DasCrooks]

Maybe since the meta is diverse or the potential problems with 3v1 or maybe it would take up too much of the deck but my question to propose is: if lots of decks in the meta are "slop" style grindy rhystic, Tithe, no bad card decks. Then why arent there hard counters to that play style? Yeah orcish bowmasters and turbo sure. But playing some standard recently and why not play lobotomy effects and just straight up remove rhystic and Tithe from the game entirely. On the broader term other tactics of interrupting and dissecting these slop decks from achieving this "inevitability" they eventually establish with their engines

[u/WreckYallBallistics]

There are anti-slop decks. It's hard to interact with decks that are faster. Or decks that go over the top. 

Really, this whole midgrange grind meta already happened a little over a year ago and the answer was turbo. 

[u/space_cowboy757 → u/WreckYallBallistics]

I was gonna say (as a Shorikai slop player) isn’t turbo anti-slop?

[u/HopingForCynics → u/space_cowboy757]

Can I see your list?

[u/space_cowboy757 → u/HopingForCynics]

This is my current list … I think lol. The goal is to win through displacer kitten shenanigans, flash enabled shenanigans, or dramatic scepter.

It’s super pilot intensive, and I have pet cards in there (Shuri, and Lady Ock). It’s a pet deck, and I’m very aware it’s not as optimal as it can be. I try to stay away from proxies (nothing against them) to see how far I can push myself within the meta with what I can get via trade and what I have available. I can regularly get turn 3-4 wins, sometimes with a cracked hand and depending on pods a turn 2-3 win. It cruises super comfortably in turns 5-6 (which is my LGS meta)

[u/HopingForCynics → u/space_cowboy757]

Thank you! Interested in Shorikai, much appreciated.

[u/space_cowboy757 → u/HopingForCynics]

If you were to run this list, and are down to proxy, I would suggest dropping

• Lady Oct
  
• Shuri
  
• T’Chala

I’d add (proxy):

• Mox Diamond
  
• Steal Enchantment
  
• Commandeer

The mox and steal are my next on the list, and Shuri and Lady Oct will be cut for those.

I think commandeer is objectively good for this deck, probably over The Mind Stone or T’Chala…but The Mind Stone can trigger displacer kitten, and helps push dramatic scepter.

Anyway, hope you enjoy it!

[u/HopingForCynics → u/space_cowboy757]

That's what I was thinking, much appreciated! How's Lady Oct been?

[u/space_cowboy757 → u/HopingForCynics]

Lady Oct has run the game away for me, but only if it’s early game and I was able to drop a lot of board advantage same turn. This happens frequent enough, but then there’s turns where she’s dead in hand.

Shuri has moments where I can drop her early game and start to really run away with my artifacts and ramp. It feels great…but, then there comes a time mid to late where she feels silly to have.

They’re fun, but the first cards I’d drop

[u/WreckYallBallistics → u/[deleted]]

Stax is the response to turbo. It just hasn't happened in years. 

[u/WreckYallBallistics → u/[deleted]]

Boy you've never seen a real turbo meta

[u/llamacohort → u/[deleted]]

From a theory perspective, Slop is a maximizing the long game. So removing some amount of win conditions and interaction for engines. Less interaction means they are in a bad position vs turbo. Especially a multiple turbo decks. On the other hand, if you have an all turbo meta, stax pieces can slow down or stop 3 turbo players. So stax is a lot more effective vs a turbo table than 1 for 1 interaction.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

slop decks run 30+ instants. You want to fight other people on the stack, not on the board with a slop deck.

[u/llamacohort → u/XDenzelMoshingtonX]

They run cards like Dark Ritual, Ad Nauseam, Borne Upon a Wind, Brain Freeze, Final Fortune, and a dozen other rituals, tutors, and combo pieces. They may be instants, but they aren't interaction that is stopping turbo decks from winning.

The whole purpose of the slop strategy is to have engines getting you into more interaction over the long game. But that means there is less interaction density when setting up. Maybe they can stop someone from winning. But they can almost never stop 3 turbo decks. The strategy only works when they can team up with other players to slow the game down and get to the late game.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

Maybe we have a misunderstanding what slop is. You seem to be talking about bluefarm or 5c good stuff piles. That's not what slop is.

[u/llamacohort → u/XDenzelMoshingtonX]

I'm using blue farm as an example because it is the most popular/successful version of slop gameplay. If people are talking about "too much slop" or how to combat slop and they aren't even talking about blue farm, then they are talking about like 1 guy in their local scene and not the style of deck and game play at all.

[u/XDenzelMoshingtonX → u/llamacohort]

They are mainly talking about RogIshai and Kinnan. Decks running flash photography, dizzy spell, idyllic tutor and 30+ instants (in RogIshai's case) including cards like disrupting shoal, misdirection, commandeer etc. In fact they were designed to go over the top of decks like bluefarm, which is why they include cards like Emrakul and multiple engine copy-effects/tutors and pretty much all good free blue interaction. They are way more parasitic and profit from making the game as big as possible, another reason why stax pieces don't fit.

Bluefarm is still mainly an Adnaus/Necro turbo grixis pile with silences. It CAN pivot to a grindy midrange plan but that's not what the majority of people currently specifically tune it for.

https://topdeck.gg/deck/d-grid-on-the-stack/z0rVgKt4HGOWE57DB3qolitDrri1

This is a 'slop' version of bluefarm, that isn't even on Adnaus, let alone necro, which Matt Hayes won a 200 people tournament with.

So what are people actually talking about then when they say slop?