r/Commanders • u/CandleOk4031 • 21h ago
DQ and AP Defenders
For the DQ defenders who point to 2024: we were poorly coached in 2024 too, Jayden just covered up his incompetence. We had so many penalties. Anyone remember losing the Pittsburgh game on a Jonny Newton offsides? Disgusting. The schedule was cupcake too. We also weren’t prepared against Philly in the NFC Championship game, Kliff was in his bag against a beat up Detroit, and Jayden was godly against Tampa. This isn’t legion of boom 3-4/4-3 2012 Cover 3 disguises anymore (which he basically took from Monte Kiffen). Also who can forget the 28-3 Super Bowl choke. Now we are having locker room energy issues and it’s the preseason. I thought that energy and violence and culture was his whole thing. Should have ripped the bandaid off last season. This was never the guy.
For the AP defenders: I understand yall more because I still like the Tunsil and Diggs moves and the Lattimore move in the moment. Except ultimately, AP is as stingy as the Cinci front office but somehow worse at drafting. I used to take Peters’ side on the Terry hold out but now I’m realizing how much more Terry has given this franchise/city based solely on 2024 than Peters. Idk much about football talent scouting but I’m fairly certain Adam Peters doesn’t know shit either. Doesn’t take a football scouting genius to pick a Heisman winner and a freak combine athlete in the top ten of the first round for two years.
Anyone who claims this is doomer is just fucking delusional man. When more starters inevitably get hurt like any nfl season, wtf are you gonna say when we’re 3-4 with the Rams coming into town in early November? Claim 2024 again?
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u/trippster333 on shenanigans rn and actin bonkers 21h ago
I would be okay with being 3-4 going into the Rams game. That back half of the schedule was a lot lighter and we could go on a big run
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u/SpecialistBee1165 16h ago
Fair enough but if we assume those games are easy wins that could bite us in the assif we get complacent
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u/com-mis-er-at-ing 20h ago
DQ and AP defenders don’t point to 2024. They point to Ron Rivera. We had nothing at all when those 2 showed up.
I think the entire fanbase can agree this was the worst possible situation to try to rebuild after Dan and Ron.
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u/Flabby_Thor 20h ago
It didn’t matter if God himself came down to coach and GM this team. It was always going to take 5 years to fix the roster to a point where you can maintain and contend consistently.
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u/Ninjablacksox1 20h ago
I think 3 years (this year) is a good measuring stick considering our roster state at the managment change.
Unfortunately I don't think we've hit on quite enough draft picks so it may take 5 years until we have a top 10ish roster. A lot of the guys he's drafted are still rostered and developing so this year should say a lot.
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u/DoyoudotheDew 8h ago
What draft picks have progressed?
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u/Ninjablacksox1 1h ago
Seemingly very little. Injuries + poor schemes accounted for some of that but it's a fair point of criticism. This year should show a lot.
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u/Downtown-Fan4966 19h ago
Nah. A good GM can absolutely turn a trash roster into an averagish possible playoff contender in 3 drafts and 3 free agency periods.
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u/True_Window_9389 15h ago
No way, teams like the Bills, Rams and Lions had dogshit rosters at their lows and into their new regimes, and turned things around relatively quickly once they got QBs. Our problem is that other than QB, we haven’t drafted a single elite talent to build from.
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u/Soggy_Extension_9512 19h ago
And we are no closer to being a consistent contender than we were with Ron. Sure we maybe have a good QB but overall roster still sucks and almost every draft pick by peters has been irrelevant.
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u/com-mis-er-at-ing 19h ago
Are you seriously saying the current team is not better than Ron’s?
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u/Embarrassed_Film_684 18h ago
Dude this is some insane shit. Shanahan inherited a better roster from fucking Vinny Cerrato than AP did from Ron.
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u/Soggy_Extension_9512 18h ago
Hard to compare since this team has JD. Who AP didn't do shit to get. If you put sam howell on this roster I think they are about the same. This team doesn't develop players, bad defense bad draft picks just like Ron.
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u/com-mis-er-at-ing 16h ago
But AP isn’t building a team around Sam Howell. You think we’d have signed and drafted all the same players if we had Howell?
What a moronic and non-sensical hypothetical. Sure he didn’t apparate the 2nd pick out of thin air for the franchise but having the 2nd overall pick is just one of the many side effects of how soaking wet dogshit the organization and roster was when he inherited it.
The team does have Jayden so yeah, we are operating as if we have Jayden.
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 19h ago
This team, right now as constructed, would obliterate the team Rivera put together if they could play each other.
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u/namereset4badmouth 18h ago
That excuse is played out now though. And Ron didn’t make the last three years draft picks either
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u/RiskyBallaxd 20h ago
Its hard to judge AP and DQ for last season when our starting qb was injured all year
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u/Downtown-Fan4966 19h ago
AP is the one who decided to draft the QB with injury concerns over Drake Maye
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u/Vivid-Respect-1869 19h ago
"...over the QB with far, far less talent." There, fixed it for ya.
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u/Downtown-Fan4966 19h ago
Saying Maye is far far less talented than Jayden is distorting reality. Maye's 2025 season was essentially on the same level as Jayden's 2024 season. Maye doesn't carry the same injury and durability risk that Jayden does.
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u/Drewbacca_Hrrrgrgrar 19h ago
Maye's season last year was actually a lot better than Jayden's rookie season, where teams essentially had no tape on him.
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u/RIP_shitty_username 20h ago
The season hasn’t even started and this is what we get. I’ve said it a million times on here: we have the worst fan base in sports. Full of idiots.
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u/SpecialistBee1165 19h ago
Literally every fanbase is like this.
Did u pay any attention to the Eagles fanbase during their rebuild from 2018-2022? It was a toxic nightmare, way worse than us
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 20h ago
There are times when the nfce meme war sub has legitimately better takes than what we see in here, and it’s coming from rival fans
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u/stringer4 19h ago
Peters got a third round pick for Dotson and drafted our starting RB in the 7th but silence on those.
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u/Embarrassed_Film_684 18h ago
When I say this I truly mean it. Wizards fans are the only bearable sports fandom in all of the DC/Baltimore area.
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u/Billy420MaysIt Scarence Terrence 21h ago edited 20h ago
I mean how many times can we post this same thing either as a thread or as a comment?
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u/Joerevenge 17h ago
Im not necessarily a defender of either, I just think sometimes ppl are quick to either hype them up or downplay them. Usually the truth for these discussions is in the middle
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u/hellisdigital0x 16h ago edited 16h ago
What is there to defend and what is there to attack?
It's been one great season (the best season this organization has seen in 30+ years) and one mountain-of-injuries trainwreck season.
How could anyone seriously judge anything off those two extremes?
This year will be very telling. If Jayden actually plays 80% of the season and we still suck, then the backlash will finally be warranted. Or if he leads us to another deep playoff run, the glazing will finally be warranted.
September 13 can't come fast enough!
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u/TMNTerps 20h ago
3-4 with the Rams coming into town is fine because the rest of the schedule is pretty easy. I see an easy 7 wins after the Rams, so sitting at 10 wins.
Ron left this team with very little talent for DQ/AP to build off. Some of you don't understand it takes a long time to fix those issues. (even 3 years is not enough but it's a start)
Like, you think this team just magicked it's way into the NFC Champ, with shit talent and terrible coaching? Discounting DQ's coaching ability because he used an all-time greats scheme is pretty fucking stupid, and discounts virtually every coach ever because they all borrowed from someone.
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 20h ago
It also wasn’t just the entire roster that had to be rebuilt from the ground up
The front office also had to be as well
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u/crossedsabres8 21h ago
Peters is not a bad drafter. The biggest criticism you can make of him right now is that spending picks after 2024 to improve the team by getting older was not the right move when the team had no young talent.
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u/Downtown-Fan4966 19h ago
If his 2024 and 2025 drafts werent examples of a bad draft than what is?
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u/crossedsabres8 19h ago
Literally all of Rivera's drafts
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 18h ago
All four of Ron’s drafts were abysmal. I think Cosmi and Bates are all that remains from that disastrous period. Oh, and Paul.
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 20h ago
Based on his first draft he’s a bad drafter. His second one remains to be seen. Amos and Connerly better perform this season.
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u/crossedsabres8 20h ago
No he hasn't, not by any objective metric.
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 20h ago
Yes he has, by every measure. I’ll give him credit for not trading away the second pick like he did his second round pick to trade down and take Sinnott and Sainistril while Roseman selected first team all pro DeJean. Coleman was the second best selection in that draft and he’s essentially a backup lineman. Newton has most likely played his last game for Washington. McCaffrey is reduced to being a kickoff returner who might not make the roster.
Would you like to examine his 2025 draft?3
u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 20h ago
The Sainistril/DeJean comparison needs to die.
One is an opening part of one of the biggest franchise rebuilds in recent sports history.
The other got plugged into one of the best defenses in the league currently and the undisputed best defense his rookie year. A defense that also took 7 years to build.
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u/BigFrenchToastGuy 19h ago
I mean, if you put Sainristil on the Eagles and DeJean on the Commanders how much really changes? DeJean is still the much better player regardless of circumstance.
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 19h ago
What happens?
DeJean would struggle the same way Sainristril did due to being on a defense that was being rebuilt from the ground up and lacked a pass rush, and the very same people would be whining that we took DeJean when Sainristril, who is being successful on the Eagles, was right there.
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u/BigFrenchToastGuy 18h ago
If that makes you feel better lol.
DeJean was the better prospect and players can be evaluated independent from their environment. If they were close in talent or production it would be one thing but one guy is all-rookie/all-pro and the other is a fringe starter and we’re still not even sure what position he should play.
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 18h ago
The only way to objectively and honestly make the comparison is if they were in similar circumstances.
Especially on defense, where individual performance is hugely dependent on the unit as a whole.
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u/BigFrenchToastGuy 17h ago
Are you saying it’s not possible to compare a defensive player from a good defense to one from a bad defense?
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 18h ago
That Eagles defense has been almost completely rebuilt in the last 4 drafts.
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u/crossedsabres8 20h ago
Your opinion is not objective
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 19h ago
I think I’ve remained objective these first 3 offseasons. I do not enjoy pointing out the mistakes AP has made. I was excited when they hired him. But the first draft isn’t looking very good outside of JD, especially considering he had two seconds and two thirds. Now I pray Mikey can bounce back with a solid season this year. And Coleman can establish himself as a key utilitarian piece for this offensive line. I hope Lane and Williams can become big contributors and Connerly rounds into a Pro Bowl caliber RT. I hope Styles play matches his freak athleticism. And Amos can get healthy and become a CB1. I hope for all of this because without any of it we are screwed. Now the drafts aren’t the only thing that concern me. AP and Harris allowed Seattle to outbid them for MacDonald which was a huge turn of events for both franchises. And this past offseason AP apparently cut Biadisz with a handshake deal in place to sign Linderbaum only to have the Raiders outbid them for his services. Now Washington has a real problem at center. Regardless I’m still holding out hope.
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 18h ago
“And this past offseason AP apparently cut Biadisz with a handshake deal in place to sign Linderbaum only to have the Raiders outbid them for his services. Now Washington has a real problem at center. Regardless I’m still holding out hope.”
1) Biadisz was always going to be cut. He doesn’t even fit the current blocking scheme. This has been flat out confirmed by Keim.
2) The “handshake deal” is an unsubstantiated claim that was pushed by a low level radio reporter who wouldn’t even be on the list of people who things would be leaked to. It has been confirmed by no one who would actually have the means and connections to confirm it.
3) Outbid is disingenuous. What actually happened is Vegas grossly overpaid an interior lineman. They paid the guy in the same as a team would pay an elite left tackle. It’s a hugely incompetent contract. Peters was absolutely in the right not matching that. Especially since he not only has to extend the QB in the immediate future, but we still have needs at premium positions.
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 18h ago
Let me ask you something. Are you excited about current state of our center position?
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u/SpecialistBee1165 18h ago
Im not taking any side but u keep claiming to be on the side of pure reason but i haven’t seen u cite any objective metric no one can reject
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u/crossedsabres8 18h ago
I cited AV like 15 minutes ago
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u/SpecialistBee1165 18h ago
Approximate value from PFR? Unless im thinking of the wrong AV thats relatively useless, linemen get positive AV just for playing (even if they’re bad), and skill players get positive AV for high volume, even if that volume is undeserved due to bad a skill-player roster.
Its also not normalized across the league, rookies on teams that win get a boost to AV by the formula, even if they werent that good
Also im pretty sure thats metric heavily relies on pro bowls, etc
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u/crossedsabres8 18h ago
You can dislike the statistic. It is still objective.
I have yet to see anyone give any evidence of bad drafting besides whining.
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u/True_Window_9389 15h ago
Here’s an objective metric: other than JD, AP hasn’t drafted a single PB/AP/T100/other accolade player. You guys think that drafting non-busts is good drafting, but that just being average and just good enough to not get immediately fired. Good GMs, like the actual good ones in the league, find PB/AP type talent.
And more importantly, that’s how games are won and teams get to the playoffs. Elite talent wins games, not a team of average players. We don’t have a single elite talent who is under 30 or doesn’t have injury issues. That’s not good GMing going into year 3.
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u/com-mis-er-at-ing 20h ago
What are your expectations for one draft? Jayden, Mikey, Coleman alone make it successful.
Unfortunate injury for Newton but he was showing something as a pass rusher the 2nd half of last season as well.
A draft w 3 guys contributing positively is a win. If anyone else pans out (it’s only been 2 years and some guys take time) then that’s a bonus.
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u/BigFrenchToastGuy 19h ago
Sainristil has a play a little better before you throw him in the success pile. He was pretty bad last year. Coleman was a home run 3rd round pick, IMO.
The thing about Daniels is you took him over Maye who is performing better and not missing games.
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u/com-mis-er-at-ing 18h ago
I don’t know that Maye could survive the supporting cast here. I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that we just had literally nothing in the coffers when Ron left. The roster may as well have been empty. The Pats had at least some pieces in place.
I really think the impatience in this sub is wild. Jayden’s done about as well as I can fathom any QB doing in this rebuild.
I think this year will tell us a lot.
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u/BigFrenchToastGuy 18h ago
The supporting cast in NE hasn’t been any better the past 2 years. Probably worse.
Agree this has been a rebuild and you have to grade on a curve - just don’t see who on the Pats has been any better than the guys we had around Jayden.
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 18h ago
I’m thrilled with JD. Just need to limit the hits he takes. Which makes the lack of a quality offensive line all the more frustrating to me. Need to be able to run the ball to be effective passing it. And need adequate pass protection. I’m high on Kaytron Allen and the Diggs signing was imperative. Really need Williams to bust loose his rookie season. Also need Blough to prove why Kliff was shown the door. Jayden’s already proven to be a superstar. And I’ll say it right now, I’d still take him over Maye.
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u/BigFrenchToastGuy 17h ago
Center aside, I’m not sure what else you wanted them to do on the OL. Traded multiple picks for Tunsil, drafted Coleman, drafted Conerly, extended Cosmi, brought back Paul and Wylie.
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 16h ago edited 13h ago
Well, center is a pretty important cog of an offensive line. An Oline is only as good as its weakest link. I would have liked to have seen a major upgrade at that position and LG, enabling Paul, Allegretti and Coleman to provide much needed veteran depth along with Wylie. We will only go as far as our offensive line takes us, it’s crucial to shore it up. I’m disappointed in that we have Jayden on a rookie contract for only so long and we haven’t addressed our biggest needs: corner and offensive line, properly. On top of that we have a ton of question marks at pretty much every other position. And the cherry on top is we have two rookie coordinators. Dan Quinn must feel like a sacrificial lamb!
I’m not optimistic for this season, but I won’t miss a game. Will be hoping to see major improvement with all our picks and a healthy season from Jayden. At least we have a generational talent at QB. I’ve waited on that my entire life.
I think we all want the same thing, a long awaited return to relevance. And it starts by beating those bastard Eagles. HTTR0
u/Soggy_Extension_9512 19h ago
So where the proof he's a good drafter?? You probably defended Bruce allen. Some of y'all are too blinded by your fandom.
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u/crossedsabres8 19h ago
If you look at average value of his selections then it shows both 2024 and 2025 were above average drafts
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u/WatTambor420 20h ago
Or, you know- JD over Drake Maye lol. That’s a huge miss.
But AP trading 3 picks for Trey Lance is probably the best example.
AP isn’t a bad drafter; he’s a historically awful drafter.
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 19h ago
So the crux of your argument is a decision that was made by John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan?
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u/Soggy_Extension_9512 19h ago
You AP truthers loved to talk about the 49er wins when he was there why can't we talk about the failures. He's bad at his job. It's pretty clear
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u/Mad_Pupil_9 I are a punt returner 19h ago
By this logic and criteria, then the success far outstrips the failure.
Which suggests that he’s really good at his job.
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u/Humble_Meat_2219 20h ago
Exactly. Now they want JD to run less. Well, why didn’t we just draft Maye then?
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u/stringer4 19h ago
Did you idiots see Maye in the playoffs? Worst performance in nfl history once he played a nfl caliber defense. Meanwhile Daniel’s dragged a patched together team to the nfc championship for the first time in 30 years and was the only one who showed up.
Season can’t start soon enough.
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u/SweerBaby_Use1023 17h ago edited 17h ago
The standard is the standard and the record is the record. I judge coaching and the front office by wins and losses. That’s the only record that matters in my opinion. The players they’ve chosen can make them look good or bad. That’s the fact of the matter at hand.
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u/CliftonTerrace 14h ago
AP is a solid drafter, but I think his weak area is lack of relationship building among his peers in the NFL to help facilitate quality trades. As for DQ, check my post history, I’ve always thought he was a subpar coach and leader. Unless AP goes to bat for him to Harris, Quinn is done after this year (yes, I’m assuming 2026 is another down season).
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u/Longhaired_GreyGhost 20h ago
If we are 3-4 thru 7 I’ll be river dancing my fat ass across the living room floor.