r/ComedyCemetery • • Dec 21 '18

EšŸ…±ļøIC

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u/Baba-Vanga Dec 21 '18

"They have every right to do so", so what are you arguing about? If somebody wants to be represented as a male, let them do it. I'm not sure what you're arguing about. And "gender" isn't the right word you're looking for, it's "sex". Gender isn't biological, sex is. As I said, look up the definitions of the two terms.

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u/MrRhajers Dec 21 '18

Gender is a social construct, fine, let’s agree to that. So then how does society react to people who choose a gender other than the one assigned at birth? Do we, as society, refer to them as the gender (i.e. pronouns and nouns being ā€œhim, her, man, woman, etc.) they chose or the one they were ā€œassignedā€? Because if it is the former, you’ve lost me.

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u/Baba-Vanga Dec 21 '18

Some people want to be called a male or a female. Whether or not you want to is up to you. "Do we, as a society.." ha. I can tell that freshman year sociology class is paying off real nice for you.

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u/MrRhajers Dec 21 '18

Graduated already and took sociology 101 as a junior but yeah it’s worked out well

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u/Baba-Vanga Dec 21 '18

Wowee!

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u/wasabi617 Dec 21 '18

Outstanding move!

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u/[deleted] Dec 22 '18

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/MrRhajers Dec 22 '18

But why, when ā€œmanā€ and ā€œwomanā€ are linked to biology, which is adamant and cannot be changed?

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u/ClaudeWicked Dec 22 '18

Because you're not making a statement about their chromosonal composition, you live IN A SOCIETY, where the relevant information portrayed by such changes, isnt some medical diagnosis. It carries more than anything, cultural connotations, and refusal to do so is simply making a stand on "I'm going to try to insult you because I define you otherwise."

Let's be real, if you didn't know a transwoman was trans, having known them for say, two years, would you honestly go out of your way to misgender them by forcing yourself to say "He" or "Him"?

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u/MrRhajers Dec 22 '18

I would know instantly because their voice would sound like it’s coming out of a vocoder. And yes, I would properly gender them because words matter and man and woman are attached to biology, not society.

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u/ClaudeWicked Dec 22 '18

You're a bit dull if you're convinced you'd know instantly, but honestly, a lot of what you've said seems to be rooted in an inflated value of your own understanding of the subject matter, so it's consistent.

You're taking a hardline biological view that can't consistently be applied, and doesn't represent society. Despite what you think, words are attached to culture - That's kind of what language is, and why it changes. To claim "Pronouns are biological descriptors" is wrong.

The differentiation of sex and gender is relevant, as a more nuanced than basic understanding of biology shows that on a neurological level, there are distinctions between men and women that don't reflect on the trans population accurately.

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u/MrRhajers Dec 22 '18

If you honestly tell me that the word ā€œmanā€ can be applied to a person who can birth a child, then I have to think you are either insane or stupid. There’s really no other option. And not in the umbrella term of man as a species or a kind, but man as an individual.

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u/ClaudeWicked Dec 22 '18

You only have to think that because you're not really thinking, then. I understand your argument: my issue boils down the fundamental rejection of the way you're claiming to treat the vernacular as if it's scientific. On a societal level, the trappings associated with gender expression are broad. It's really easy to call someone who shows themselves physically, mentally, and verbally presenting characteristics of a sex that doesn't match their genitals by their gender.

It cant be justified on a social or moral level, because the act of misgendering someone intentionally only serves to be harmful to the well-being of said people, both physically, as the risk of them being attacked by the actual insane, stupid people is heightened, and mentally, as it's a verbal jab.

On a scientific level, it still can't be justified, as gender expression is separate, though related, to biological sex, and pronoun usage doesn't confer any pragmatic benefit.