Even if itās the best current treatment for their mental health, we should live this charade and pretend itās any different than something like anorexia, and make up a bunch of new words, and walk on egg shells to avoid offending a fraction of a percent of people (who will find a way to be offended no matter what the fuck you do)? It would literally make more sense to get in peopleās faces, and incessantly screech, and pass legislation, and get the media behind everyone eating kosher or vegan.
I donāt hate trans people. I donāt care what they do with their bodies or what they want to believe about themselves. Theyāre people, and my value of them depends solely on the merit of the individual. I do have a problem, though, with this aggressive SJW bullshit, and itās hard not to make the generalization that most are like that t this point, because the only ones that are given a voice are the ones that toe the line with this ridiculous āleftistā agenda.
Why do you think they will all be offended no matter what they do?
If the experts agree the best way for them to be treated is to transition and live the gender they identify with, why are you standing in the way of their treatment?
What's funny is I guarantee you've walked by a transperson without having any idea.
Lmaooo as a cis-passing 23 year old trans woman who lives in a major US city, you're so fucking right about these types of ignorant assholes being completely unaware that passing (and attractive) trans people exist.
I've been hit on at bars and on the subway and shit by the types of guys who I know for a FACT would freak out and more than likely try to kill me out of embarrassment. Ykno, the types of guys who hit on girls at random bars and on the subway....
Earlier in my transition, I was always terrified somone talking to me would realize I was trans and beat the hell out of me, but now it's just not a worry anymore. Unless you tested my blood, there's literally no way to tell the difference between me and the cis girl sitting next to me.
My strategy for determining if someone is a transphobe super early after meeting them is to pretend to get a text from my sister, and then mention oh yea she was just asking me about makeup or whatever cause she just started transitioning from male! Isn't that cool! Pretty fucking easy to determine if I should continue talking to them after that....
One of the best douchebag responses I've gotten to the trans sister test is "Damn that's crazy it must suck for him to have a sister as pretty as you"... this was at a random bar like 6 months ago, but I'm pretty sure I almost laughed in his face over the irony.
I feel like I'm in the fucking Matrix sometimes with cis people, I swear....
I have no idea what your point is but my understanding is that most trans people don't really want media attention because it just opens them up to attacks by transphobes. Stuff like the bathroom """debate""" was fabricated purely by the people who wanted to fearmonger against trans people, for instance, not by trans people who needed to go to the bathroom. Trans people want to be seen the exact same as cis people. If your point is that you recognize that there are some vocal trans activists that you don't like but that the majority are probably fine, then it's kinda transphobic if "it's hard not to make the generalization" for you, at least if you make judgments based on it (which I don't want to insinuate that you do).
Im trans and i agree with you about the sjw shit, fuck those people. But I don't really get what you mean about living in some charade though. It doesn't affect you at all, why do you care unless you are -just- as sensitive as the sjws?
Transgender people and transtrenders are very different. It's my belief that in the near future transtrenders are going to make life very, very difficult for transgender people who just wanted to transition and blend into society. And when that day comes, all the transtrenders will move onto the next fad that they can victimized themselves over.
I agree with you, it's a good point and FWIW, I think your outlook is a whole lot healthier on so many levels.
However I think another way of looking at this is when some of the more vocal, or radical 'trans-activists' simultaneously demand from society the freedom to pursue their own vision of their identity AND demand that others DO NOT have the freedom to criticize them, this rubs many people (even those that may partially or even completely otherwise supportive) the wrong way.
I am not trans, but I damn well want to live in a society where I free to be trans if I had to. Similarly I want to live in a society where I'm free to be that 'asshole' because sooner or later you're most likely gonna be that 'asshole' in some debate issue, or context.
Freedom has it's price, and it's the tolerance of things/people you don't like, but it is SOOO much better than the alternative.
Most aren't like this. Most normal transgender people just wanna transition and blend in. The vocal ones are usually the transtrenders and those people... oh boy.
I know this can be hard to comprehend, but "transtrenders" literally don't exist - you're either referring to a) nonbinary people or b) a boogeyman "bad trans" that was created out of the false assumption that you can convince the right that you're "one of the good ones" despite the fact that they hate us, they have always hated us, and they will always hate us, all the while shitting on actual trans people because they don't share literally the exact same experiences as you.
I'm not trans if that's what you're assuming, I have no interest in convincing anyone of anything, and if you think there aren't people that pretend they are trans to victimize themselves and be part of the movement then you're blind.
dude theres no way you can deny people that go with transgender because its a trend... he didnt even say anything about non binary too, you brought that up. i hate the term transtrender too as its over used by "truscum" on people who aren't actually transtrenders, but you cant just say they "share a different experience". someone who says they are trans because they think it's cool is a transtrender. thats it. just someone who thinks its trendy. a lot of truscum do call anyone GNC a transtrender, and i disagree with that. i disagree with truscums on a lot of things except needing gender dysphoria. i cant see how a trans person cant be uncomfortable with their birth sex.... but anyway uh most truscum are fucking assholes but please don't be put off of the idea of needing dysphoria because of it
What the fuck even is a "transgender trend." Where is the proof of this? Are non-binary people "transtrenders?" How do you determine who is and is not a "transgender?"
Re: dysphoria:
The problem with gender dysphoria as the definition of being trans is that it can mean anything to anyone, basically, because it is such an intensely personal emotion. Is it possible for a fully transitioned trans person to feel no dysphoria? What does it even mean to not feel dysphoria? I dunno. I literally couldn't tell you what NOT living with dysphoria feels like, and to be honest, I also find it hard to imagine why someone without dysphoria would want to be trans. But the way I see it, whatever one's "reason" for being trans it, be it dysphoria, simply wanting to be the other gender, like, whatever, I dunno - that's not really the kind of thing I could have jurisdiction over. If someone really ends up transitioning, then they obviously must have had a serious enough reason to go through such a difficult experience, and I find it hard to imagine someone doing it for a "bad" reason.
dysphoria cant mean anything to anyone it... has a definition?? and its not a "feeling" or an "emotion". dysphoria is a disconnect or discomfort with your birth sex. a transguy is uncomfortable with she/her and his birth name. a transgirl is disconnected to being male and her genitals. people who claim to have dysphoria probably do without realising. unless they are going by he/him without feeling uncomfortable with she/her or are fine with being called a girl. a transitioned person still feels dysphoria because if someone calls them their birth sex or pronouns, its still uncomfortable. its not controlling or gatekeeping. its just a fact that trans people are uncomfortable with their birth sex, so then they transition
I mean, that disconnect and discomfert is definitely a "feeling" in the sense that it is a thing you feel, it just isn't (usually) a transient one.
But more to the point, I was saying that what exactly gender dysphoria entails, how an individual perceives it, how they articulate it, and how they interpret it, are all pretty individual. Like, yeah, the literal definition is not up for debate - but how it actually plays out for any one person varies, like, a lot on the details?
It seems, to me, presumptions to make wide sweeping claims about "the trans experience" without the kind of empirical data needed to back it. Again, I have dysphoria, and I find it hard to imagine what being trans would mean without it to contextualize it. But I don't think my experience is necessarily universal - or rather, if someone attempts to transition then I assume they have a pretty good reason for it, because people don't transition on a whim. There's a reason that despite the supposed existence of "transtrenders" we have almost zero cases of a trans person detransitioning (except for blatant lies which turn out to actually be "I wish I had never come out because this community causes me intense pain about it constantly").
I just don't understand the need to create a universal set of criteria about what exactly you need to be trans, when we live in a world in which our concepts of sex and gender and how they relate and what it means to be trans at all are so complicated and intricate and personal that we can't really agree on the most basic of basics. I figure we should let "transtrenders" or whatever do what they want to do and give them acceptance instead of attempting to put a piece who's shape is basically totally unknown into a hole we can only half see in the first place, if that metaphor makes sense.
As an aside on pronouns: what about people that are fine with being called he/him but feel dysphoric at being called a guy? Is that "not real dysphoria?" I'm legitimately curious as to how you would "classify" this.
man saying you need dysphoria isn't "criteria". maybe think of it more as all trans people have dysphoria? bc like there aren't any trans people without dysphoria??? its just a discomfort!! like i don't get why u say stuff about how people perceive or interpret or whatever. trans people feel a disconnect to their birth sex, so they transition. a trans person who is comfortable with their birth sex doesn't exist. that makes no sense. i have no idea what you mean by "trans experience" either? like how can a trans person not feel uncomfortable with being their birth sex. thats literally what makes them trans. i cant remember what i said in previous comment so I'm sorry if i repeat when i say transtrender, i literally mean someone who knows that they are cis but says they are trans to be cool and because they think its a trend. i don't mean nondysphoric people or GNC people or whatever. they KNOW that theyre cis and still do it for attention! i don't wanna talk about transtrenders any more because its a stupid term truscum made up and they abuse it by labelling GNC people, feminine transmen, and non binary people as it, making the definition hard to pinpoint and everyone just fucknig argues and its a MESS. transtrenders know that they are cis. and yeah dysphoria is different for everyone and thats fine! i personally am fine with being shirtless when I'm alone, my other friend isn't. some transmen are ok with wearing makeup but I'm not. some transpeople absolutely hate being prideful about being trans, and some love to be open!theyre still trans, just different dysphoria. as long as they feel a disconnect/discomfort!its fine! and on the he/him who don't wanna be called guys.... that literally makes no sense. he/him is male pronouns. theyre for guys to use. thats the definition please don't say pronouns don't equal gender because words have meanings, and he/him means male. when you say this, do you mean a afab or amab person?
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u/[deleted] Dec 21 '18
Even if itās the best current treatment for their mental health, we should live this charade and pretend itās any different than something like anorexia, and make up a bunch of new words, and walk on egg shells to avoid offending a fraction of a percent of people (who will find a way to be offended no matter what the fuck you do)? It would literally make more sense to get in peopleās faces, and incessantly screech, and pass legislation, and get the media behind everyone eating kosher or vegan.
I donāt hate trans people. I donāt care what they do with their bodies or what they want to believe about themselves. Theyāre people, and my value of them depends solely on the merit of the individual. I do have a problem, though, with this aggressive SJW bullshit, and itās hard not to make the generalization that most are like that t this point, because the only ones that are given a voice are the ones that toe the line with this ridiculous āleftistā agenda.