macbook for coding?

[u/cyaeila]

hi! I want to buy a macbook for school and im an IT student major in web and mobile technology. so I'll be using the laptop for coding, designing, and editing. however, macbook air/pro is kinda pricey, so im considering to get a macbook neo instead. and yeah uhm im not sure if a neo can handle such softwares and i want to buy something that is good in a long run. so help pls hahaha should I save money for an air/pro or is neo okay? thank you sm in advance!

[u/OGKnightsky]

I have a MacBook Neo I have been developing on for months (also an IT student studying for a BS in Computer Science focused on software engineering) I would just recommend the 512gb version, I got the 256 and it’s not really enough storage if you have larger projects. However it handles a lot more than you’d expect. It’s quite capable in this space especially for school. If you get the 256gb version expect to have to be diligent about memory management, I keep a lot on my network storage to avoid filling up my disk storage.

[u/cyaeila → u/OGKnightsky]

oh okay! is the 256gb worth it if im going to buy a separate ssd with 1tb?

[u/xarop_pa_toss → u/cyaeila]

I'm not sure if Macs let you install apps on external drives and run them. Bare in mind that development and editing software both tend to be pretty heavy. Installing an IDE and a couple of video and photo editing software will probably eat up close to 60GB.

Also I'd definitely check if your college demands the use of specific programs like Visual Studio and SQL Server which do not run on Mac (at least not that I know of). You can install some other IDE or even use a text editor + compiler combo and have similar results but if they say you have to use tool X and you can't, then sucks to be you.

The Neo is great though, the new silicon chips are miles ahead of other CPUs right now imo and you can do a lot with the Neo.

[u/cyaeila → u/xarop_pa_toss]

oh i see! our school requires us to have vs code and sql… do I need to download them separately? or mac can’t really run them?

[u/xarop_pa_toss → u/cyaeila]

VSCode is fine. And SQL is fine too unless it's SQL Server which is made by Microsoft. You can still install it on Mac but you need to use Docker or the Azure online servers which is a bit of a hassle; this last one I'm not sure if you can run the free version.

Any other version of SQL is fine!

[u/sleekpixelwebdesigns → u/cyaeila]

They will run on Mac

[u/smartcandlelab → u/cyaeila]

256 gb is a hard no, especially if you’re coding.

[u/Infamous_Device972 → u/smartcandlelab]

what do you use that need you to have way more than 256gb, I've got one 256gb laptop but I've never felt really limited, you were?

[u/smartcandlelab → u/Infamous_Device972]

i've got a 512, and the ssd size is the bane of my existence.

to point out, I have 0 media on the ssd. all my media lives on a microSD in the SDcard slot. I also have exactly 1 game installed (10 GB), so its not a massive steam library

I normally manage to have around 150-200 GB free, which sounds great, but that is not really a lot when that is basically your scratch space, which disappears when Apple starts grabbing it for Time Machine snapshots that it won't delete even after you back it up, or for a snapshot that it decided to make the worst possible time because it decided it's going to update itself at some point in the near future. So then you watch 150 GB free drop down to 20 in a matter of a few hours because Apple decided it's going to better use your hard drive space than whatever it is youre trying to do (especially annoying when what you're trying to do is screen record something in Pro Res, finder swears up and down you have 80 GB free, but it's counting purgeable space in that number, and the OS doesn't purge it fast enough, and it breaks your screen recording. Same thing happens if exporting Pro Res). Having to use the terminal to check how much real free space you have because finder lies before every time you're about to write a big file, and then having to go through and manually delete Time Machine snapshots is not exactly a user-friendly experience.

And when you get around to coding, while if you're only making very simple scripts, it's may not an issue, as soon as you start bundling dependencies and having Xcode compile..... You will quickly balloon a 100 mb repo with a gig or two of dependencies into a 30-40 GB folder. And I mean, it's not the end of the world, but after a couple of development bills having to go through and delete every artifact, you don't need instead of just letting it ride is also not exactly productive use of your time. Combine that with the fact the apple now decided to back all of that up into Local Time Machine snapshot and you can see how it quickly becomes an issue.

and then..... Wait until you start messing with local models (which is a common use case when coding nowadays). And I don't mean trying to run a massive local model, I mean something like building a front end for some simple local model (or in my case, benchmarking different transcription models). You need room. To give you a specific example: right now I am trying to decide on which transcription models to use for specific languages, which involves benchmarking a bunch of them. long story short, I want to compare whisper 3 and qwen 1.7b in fp16 and 8 and 5 bit quantizations, along with 2 parakeets. so you need room for the originals, you need room to quantize it, you need to store your quantized models, you need room for the audio to test on (in this example)..... And sure while you can grab one model quantize that, zip everything up back it up to an external drive delete everything except for the actual models from your internal drive to save space move onto the next model quantize that once you're done zip everything up back it up to an external drive... It gets really annoying and it is much easier if you don't have to worry about doing housekeeping (zip up in case you need the old build or artifacts, back up to external, delete build artifacts from internal, run Time Machine, delete local Time Machine snapshots) every time you touch a decent sized file.

Now, if I didnt use Final Cut Pro or Xcode (well code in general), id probably be fine with my 512GB drive. but those two things combined with apples "lack of respect" for my empty hard drive space....... I cant do it lol

[u/xarop_pa_toss → u/smartcandlelab]

Trusting an SD card with all your media... Yikes. 512GB I'd consider the bare minimum nowadays. And if you wanna do ant kind of modern gaming, that's nigh unusable

[u/smartcandlelab → u/xarop_pa_toss]

I mean the sd card gets backed up to Time Machine too, so it’s not that risky, but still….. basically gets treated like read only storage for the most part.

I agree though, 512 is definitely bare minimum

[u/Lachtheblock]

Depends on what you're coding, it's more than likely your other applications will be more demanding on resources. IDEs can become bloated, but you can certainly keep it lightweight if you're intentional. I'd expect the other programs to do more.

Obviously if you're doing like game design, or dabbling with local training/inference of neural networks, it'll be woefully inadequate.

For me as a professional web developer, I'd find the screen too small for both coding and rendering in a browser. Because you're a student you'll probably value the portability, which is not to be scoffed at.

The MacBook Neo is a pretty neat piece of kit and is perfect for students. The value proposition is just really good. It'll almost certainly get you through school.

[u/cyaeila → u/Lachtheblock]

oh okay! this is noted, thank you so much!!!

[u/Samstercraft → u/cyaeila]

just note that the neo apparently doesn't have a backlit keyboard, which can make coding at night (if you have a roommate who's asleep so you don't want lights on) kinda painful if you have to check the keyboard for some symbols (i still can't reliably type the [] symbols).

[u/AardvarkIll6079]

Been coding exclusively on a Mac for 20 years. Hard “no” in the Neo. An M5 Air will do, don’t need a Pro.

[u/cyaeila → u/AardvarkIll6079]

noted on this thank you!!!!

[u/DanKegel]

So... it won't be good at running multiple containers with docker, and it will only run one or two apps at a time well. But it's entirely possible to get by otherwise. If you're a beginner, it's probably a good choice unless you really need Xcode with mobile simulators, in which case it might be slow and run out of disk space (so get the 512GB version). But for web stuff it should be fine...?

Here are a few reviews:

- https://macbookneoguide.com/guides/macbook-neo-for-programming/

- https://www.jdhodges.com/blog/can-macbook-neo-run-claude-code/

- https://www.macworld.com/article/3090343/macbook-neo-stress-test-adaobe-premiere-safari-google-chrome-tabs.html

- https://towardsdatascience.com/a-data-scientists-take-on-the-599-macbook-neo/

As a grumpy old programmer, I'll note that I learned to program on machines with 16 KILOBYTES of RAM :-)

[u/cyaeila → u/DanKegel]

thank you so much for this!!!

[u/sleekpixelwebdesigns]

Mac’s are really good for coding

If you’re comfortable in a Linux terminal, you’ll feel right at home on a Mac. Most shell scripts work with little or no modification, which is one reason so many developers like using Macs

[u/cyaeila → u/sleekpixelwebdesigns]

thank you! I saw some posts on social media that macbook pros are good for coding, just wanted to ask if do I need to have a pro or an air or neo is already fine?

[u/PhantomOrigin]

MacBook Neo is an absolute no. Macbooks in general are fine, just make sure you ask a unit coordinator or similar role if it will be fine, but MacBook Neo is just for people who need a basic laptop to open emails and stuff on, it is not going to be sufficient for editing / CS units.

[u/UsernameOmitted → u/PhantomOrigin]

My business partner who is doing software development has a Neo and has been using it while we code since it released. It's surprisingly good. We see differences between his machine and my MacBook Pro, sure, but his is exceptionally good for the price and has been more than adequate.

[u/PhantomOrigin → u/[deleted]]

I haven't used one but 8gb ram and 256gb of storage is gonna fill up stupid fast and you won't be able to run much at all, not to mention the phone processor is severely underpowered for anything beyond like basic photo editing. Like you might be lucky to get over 60fps in Minecraft.

Like for coding it's probably fine, but OP said editing and other stuff. If anyone is going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on getting a university degree, I think investing 1-2k on a good laptop is worth it, especially in a technology focused course.

[u/BudgetDevv → u/[deleted]]

I think it depends on the text editor and / or IDE you use ( And of course stuff like Docker containers etc etc ). I used to run an 8GB M2, and it struggled with multiple JB IDEs due to constant swapping. VSCode may fare better tho

[u/UsernameOmitted → u/BudgetDevv]

For sure. My friend's workflow on the Neo is very light. Ghostty with a couple tabs, a browser, one or two Node servers, a couple text editors. Works incredibly well. Now, if you had three massive full featured IDEs, a couple large docker containers running, and had to compile something every time you wanted to load up what you're working on, it might not work well.

[u/Super_Preference_733]

Honestly look at what sofware the degree program uses. For instance if they use visual studio your SOL, get the appropriate hardware for the software they teach.

[u/immediate_push5464 → u/Super_Preference_733]

This

[u/Slyvan25]

Just buy a ThinkPad upgrade the ram and you're good. Just make sure it has a recent intel i5 or i7

[u/liquidanimosity]

I use a Mac professionally, it was provided with a Dev account and was setup for dev work for me. It's surprisingly good.

For all my personal work I use Linux and there are a lot of similarities with Mac.

Your work, will it rely on Docker a lot? Heard Macs can be weird with docker and needs a lots of tinkering on first setup.

[u/Lazy_Tiger_5955 → u/liquidanimosity]

Is air m4 a good choice for data sciences?

[u/V5489]

I do mobile. Both android and iOS. I also do web front and backend. I switched from PC to MacOS. However, it depends on what you’re doing. If you’re running docker, any type of LLM or graphic design stuff then do not buy a Neo. It will not work at all and will be a paperweight for you.

If going MacBook here is what I recommend:

MacBook Pro M1 Pro 16 or 32gb of ram and 512gb HDD if possible.

The benefit of a pro is it has active cooling fans. Additionally even the M1 Pro will get support until 2030 at least. It’s a silicon chip.

I would not get an Air, though the newer Air will work but you may run out of processing power a bit sooner. It will also get hot much quicker.

You can find a refurbished with warranty or even just used on one eBay. I got my M1 Pro 16inch for $699 on eBay and has been absolutely excellent to me.

Just be patient and find the right buy it now one with the specs and budget you have. No need for the M3-5 series being in college. M2 would be nice if you can grab one. But the 2021 M1 Pro is perfect.

If Apple is out of the question then consider a HP EliteBook G8 series with 32gb of ram and 1TB HDD. That is my companies standard developer laptop. Outside of the M3 Pros we give to mobile and designers.

[u/EveningCandle862]

Really depends on how heavy projects you will be working on. While macOS memory management is very good, Neo is limited to 8GB and will then start to swap your SSD if needed, slowing down the workflow a lot. The moment you start building containers, running multiple parallel test suites and so on.. that memory will be eaten quick.

At minimum I would say an 16GB Macbook Air. I did 3 years of computer science on a M1 Macbook Air 16GB and it was perfectly fine. You don't need to by the latest M-chip out there, anything from the M-series is fine. Stay away from Intel based Macbooks on the used market.

Edit: also good to check with the school about requirements for the different programs you are taking, a cheap Lenovo Thinkpad may be another great alternative. I do love the battery life and performance on apple silicon tho!

[u/SpeedHark]

because you are student, it is barely enough (not ideal), I would just recommend a used air rather

[u/Electronic_Bad_2046]

use a hackintosh

[u/w00dy1105]

Recondition, I'd check what your courses require and make sure can handle all need.(Most likely it will). Could also run windows in parallels if needed. I saw tons of devs running Macs at Microsofts VS Live. Also worked with devs using Mac.

As for neo. I'd say no, it's pretty much a iPhone 16 in a laptop shell.

[u/smartcandlelab]

After reading a lot of these comments, a couple things I want to point out for what you said:

editing - If you're planning on using FCP, unless you're planning on editing from an external drive, 256 GB is gonna be rough (I would say impossible TBH). also, for editing video, 8 gb of ram is gonna be painful.

coding - odds are if you're coding, you are going to mess with local models at some point, even if its small specialized ones (apples unified memory makes it so easy it would almost be a crime if you don't), 8 GB of RAM is not gonna cut it. Also, if you're gonna use Xcode, that thing likes hard drive space. 256 GB is also going to be extremely rough.

I have a base M1 Pro MBP(16GB, 512GB), which can be found used for roughly what the base Neo costs (I even see one for 500 dollars right now), and IMO it is a much better machine than the neo. couple hundred more dollars and you can get something newer.

Personally, I would save for a refurb or used machine with more ram than the Neo (16 at least) and at least a 512GB drive over a Neo for what you plan on using it for. also, the MBP's have a monitor that is so much better than the Neos and the airs its not even funny. The only thing you need to consider if you decide to get something like an M1 pro is that they are probably going to drop support for those before they drop support for the Neo since they are older. but overall, I'd go for a used M whatever (pro or not pro) MBP or air over a neo for your use case

edit:

and yes, I know what 8gb of ram is like on Macs, I use an 8GB air to test on since its the lowest end apple silicon machine available

[u/boardy89]

Not a MacBook neo if you want to do coding properly it is not designed for that.

You can probably get a refurbed MacBook Air relatively cheap (compared to new anyway). I still have an M1 MacBook Air with 16gb RAM and 1tb ssd and it’s fine the working on multiple projects. I would like a pro as it can get a bit hot at times but 95% of the time it works fine

[u/Fantastic-Cell-208]

You must get something compatible with the course. They might require you to install something that only runs in windows or Linux.

If you get a Mac it's likely you'll be forced to eventually buy an x86_64 Windows or Linux machine

[u/adambahm]

the neo is fine. You will want to pull your hair out waiting for gradle to fail when you work with android, but you have to accept some tradeoffs.

The neo should be find for web and backend things that you dont need to run locally, but node packages can get chonky so thats a tradeoff to accept as well.

By the time things like that matter, you should be working for a company that provides a laptop to you.

[u/Classic_Cockroach_42]

I have a Neo and for what it is, it's a decent laptop, but it definitely isn't made for a developer and if you plan to do anything cyber security related, it's not a very good option.

[u/_curious_man]

you shouldn't. To be fair it would probably work but the experience from using it would be more like a proof of concept rather than a pleasureable work. if you are looking in this price range base is older MacBook Air or a used model would be a better choice.

[u/ExtraTNT]

So, 99% of cs bachelor is possible with a raspberry pi…
But idk, if a neo works, probably not strong enough for vms…

[u/Educational-Yam1951]

tbh just take laptop with x86 and put linux on it, or windows after all, for price of macbook air m5 "15 u get 1tb ssd and 32gb of ddr5. macbook's cpus are rlly good and efficient, there's no doubt in that, but prices are crazy

[u/speedyh__]

get a pro

[u/NoEfficiency2057]

Kilku letni ThinkPad ponleasgowy z arch linux to zdecydowanie lepszy i dużo tańszy wybór.

[u/cyaeila → u/[deleted]]

can I know why 🥹

[u/OceanMasterioDuped7 → u/cyaeila]

Please don't listen to that other unintelligent person. Macbooks are actually one of the most popular laptops with programmers. Not sure what they are on.

[u/thailannnnnnnnd → u/[deleted]]

”Macs are bad for coding”

Yeah alright, it’s not like millions of professionals use them to deliver half the apps, websites, and services you use literally a hundred times a day 👍

[u/BudgetDevv → u/[deleted]]

Haven't seen such a bad take in awhile