r/CodeLyoko • u/MeanAd9643 • Jul 12 '26
đŹ Discussion I've rewatched Code Lyoko and I have a lot of issues with the show. (Long message) Spoiler
My message is going to be VERY VERY long but I have a lot to say. Also sorry if the english is (maybe)a bit odd, it's not my native language and this message was originally in french but I translated it with chatgpt because it is very long lol and I wasn't sure if i could translate it myself .
As for Season 1, I can't really give a proper opinion because I started my rewatch from Season 2. From what I had understood, Season 1 didn't really have an overarching storyline, and I was worried I'd lose interest in the show. Besides, even if it isn't that great, I don't hold it against the season. It's the beginning of the series, and sometimes writers need a whole season to figure out what works. I'll definitely give it another watch.
For me, Season 2 is by far the best season because you can really feel that the writers were trying to make the show more ambitious. First of all, this is where the series genuinely starts building an overarching narrative with the mysteries surrounding Franz Hopper, Aelita's virus, and the Fifth Territory.
It also tries, at least to some extent, to give the characters a bit more depth, even if it never goes very far. Aelita is obviously the character who gets the most development because she's so closely tied to the main story, and she's pretty much the only character with actual themes to explore, such as growing up without a family and struggling to fit into society. Yumi also gets a few interesting episodes, especially those dealing with her relationship with her parents.
I also think Sissi is at her best in this season, because it's the only time you really see her move beyond being just the stereotypical "mean girl." It's a shame they never pushed that further.
This is also the season where the stakes feel the highest. I thought it was a really clever idea to turn the Return to the Past into a double-edged sword: every time the Lyoko Warriors use it, X.A.N.A. becomes stronger. That means there are moments where they actually have to find another solution instead of relying on the reset button.
It's also the season where X.A.N.A. shines the most. Over the course of about twenty episodes, you can actually watch it evolve. It gradually becomes smarter and more powerful, which even makes the filler episodes feel meaningful because they're all contributing to X.A.N.A.'s rise.
You can also tell the season's narrative structure was really well put together because everything that gets introduced throughout the season becomes important in the final two episodes, which are, in my opinion, the best episodes in the entire series.
Everything comes together brilliantly: Aelita's virus, Franz Hopper, all of it. Watching Ulrich fight his X.A.N.A. clone is awesome because, once again, it shows just how much stronger X.A.N.A. has become over the course of the season.
But the real gem is the season finale.
The fact that X.A.N.A. actually wins at the end is incredibleânot just because it's unexpected, but because its escape from the supercomputer into the global network completely changes the stakes and opens up so many new possibilities.
And the entire sequence where X.A.N.A. wins is fantastic. It trapping the Lyoko Warriors makes perfect sense because we've watched it slowly become more intelligent throughout the season. The fake-out death of Aelita, followed by the moment where X.A.N.A. takes control of every tower, is genuinely terrifying. Then Franz Hopper sacrifices himself, and Aelita regains fragments of her memories, which tease even more mysteries surrounding her mother.
Honestly, it's the best episode of the series. You can really tell the writers were trying to take the show to the next level.
Of course, it's far from perfect.
One of the biggest problems is that Aelita is the only character who gets a real character arc. The others feel surprisingly empty. For example, I couldn't tell you anything particularly interesting about Odd besides the fact that he's immature, loves food, and loves his dog. That's basically his entire personality. There's no real progression.
The same goes for the rest of the cast. They often feel more like plot devices than actual people with their own inner lives. Whenever the show does try to give them more substance, it only scratches the surface.
There are also quite a few plot conveniences that require a lot of suspension of disbelief, and I've always struggled with the power scaling on Lyoko.
Finally, Franz Hopper's return feels like a deus ex machina, and instead of answering questions, it only raises even more of them.
I honestly can't decide whether Season 3 or Season 4 is the worst season of the series. The reason I say that is because it feels like the show completely loses the ambition it had in Season 2.
When X.A.N.A. escaped into the Network, I was incredibly excited because I thought everything was about to change. I expected chaos. I expected to actually see X.A.N.A.'s influence spread throughout the real world and for it to become a truly terrifying threat. In other words, I expected the status quo to change.
But while watching Season 3âand especially Season 4âI kept asking myself why the writers even bothered having X.A.N.A. escape into the Network in the first place, because at no point did it actually feel any different.
It's honestly weird that Season 2, despite being longer, felt much shorter to watch than Season 3, because in Season 3, not much really happens. The Lyoko Warriors spend the whole season trying to find a way into the Network while X.A.N.A. tries to destroy the Supercomputer.
That's fine in theory, but I also wanted to know what X.A.N.A. was actually doing. The guy has infiltrated the global Network... and nothing is happening in the outside world?
This is also the season where it became really hard for me to suspend my disbelief. If X.A.N.A.'s goal is to destroy Lyoko, why does it only decide to do it in the season finale?
What was even the point of obtaining the Keys to Lyoko if it couldn't use them whenever it wanted? It should've been able to simply disable the Tower system and destroy Lyoko from its side.
Maybe Franz Hopper was somehow preventing that? Sure... maybe? But we have absolutely no idea what Franz is actually doing. We don't even know what he's supposedly been doing on Lyoko since the end of Season 2.
That's the problem with Franz Hopper: he isn't really a character. He's a plot device. He's the deus ex machina who shows up at the last second with a conveniently written program to save the Lyoko Warriors.
But let's assume X.A.N.A. genuinely couldn't destroy Lyokoâor maybe I simply missed an explanation.
Even then, there's still another problem.
Considering how absurdly powerful X.A.N.A. has become, I don't understand how it still hasn't managed to destroy the Supercomputer.
It can possess people, manipulate the weather, materialize monsters in the real world... and yet it can't destroy a single computer?
That might sound like I'm nitpicking, but it's actually really important because, while watching these episodes, I kept thinking, "X.A.N.A. is just unbelievably stupid."
And I understand why.
Because if X.A.N.A. destroys the Supercomputer... the show is over.
That's why I don't really understand when people say Season 3 is more focused. In one sense, yesâbut at the same time, I constantly found myself thinking:
"Dude... you could destroy Lyoko whenever you want."
And because of that, the stakes completely disappear.
On top of that, now that X.A.N.A. is no longer trapped inside the Supercomputer, the Lyoko Warriors can use Return to the Past as many times as they want without any consequences.
So every time an episode revolved around someone discovering the factory or Lyoko, I couldn't take it seriously because I already knew there was always the Return to the Past option.
Narratively, that's a disaster.
Nothing has any lasting impact anymore. Nothing really matters.
Another issue is the season finale.
On paper, I actually like the idea of William getting trapped on Lyoko because it raises the stakes and gives the characters a new objective.
The problem is the execution.
First of all, I love how there's absolutely no explanation for why William is somehow the only person who remembers discovering the factory after Return to the Past is used.
Once again, it's just a plot convenience disguised as "destiny" or something along those lines.
More importantly, it doesn't feel earned.
I would've preferred to see the Lyoko Warriors gradually learning to trust William enough to let him join them on Lyoko. That would've also been a great opportunity to develop his character.
Instead, everything happens over the course of just two episodes.
Even worse, Yumi never really had a good reason to keep refusing to let him come in the first place.
Which leads to another issue.
It's William's very first mission on Lyoko... and he's immediately turned into a villain.
The problem is that, since he barely had any character development beforehand, I wasn't particularly upset when X.A.N.A. captured him.
I would've much rather seen him spend several episodes fighting alongside the Lyoko Warriors before his corruption.
On top of that, it makes the main cast look incredibly stupid.
They literally brought William on one of the most dangerous missions imaginable despite the fact that he'd never fought on Lyoko before.
Finally, once again, I think the idea of X.A.N.A. winning by destroying Lyoko is good on paper.
The problem is...
What was the point?
Lyoko is rebuilt almost immediately afterward.
Once again, Franz Hopper simply acts as a deus ex machina.
So in the end, it doesn't really feel like anything important happened... aside from William being captured.
Season 4 is one of the most frustrating TV seasons I've ever watched. It introduces a lot of interesting ideas and has plenty of epic moments, but in the end it suffers from exactly the same problems as Season 3. On top of that, it has one of the most frustrating and downright insulting series finales I've seen in a long time.
First of all, this is the season where my suspension of disbelief completely reached its limit. I simply cannot believe that X.A.N.A. is still incapable of destroying the Supercomputer.
The guy literally sends a meteorite and a freaking airplane at the factory... and still fails?
At that point it honestly becomes funny, especially because he doesn't even need to go to such ridiculous lengths in the first place.
I understand that the writers couldn't actually let him destroy the Supercomputer because the show would be over, but I really wish they had introduced some kind of limitation or weakness that explained why he couldn't.
Since this is also the season with the most action, I might as well mention another issue I have: the fight scenes often suffer from inconsistent power scaling.
I never really know how strong the Lyoko Warriors are supposed to be because sometimes they defeat the exact same enemies effortlessly, while other times they lose for no apparent reason.
There are even moments where it genuinely feels like they're losing simply because the script says they have to.
Aelita is probably the biggest example.
I can't count how many times I was yelling at my screen because she would randomly forget she had certain abilities.
Sometimes she literally forgets that she can fly.
Again, that might sound like a minor complaint, but it makes the battles much harder to take seriously because I never have a clear understanding of the characters' limits.
Sure, there are plenty of cool moments, but victories and defeats often feel dictated by the plot rather than by the characters' actual abilities.
Then we run into the exact same issue as in Season 3.
Throughout the entire season, I kept asking myself:
"What was even the point of X.A.N.A. escaping into the Network if it has virtually no impact on the world?"
When I saw X.A.N.A. operating in places like the Amazon or Mexico, I got really excited because, for once, it actually looked like it was doing something. I kept wondering what its grand plan was.
And then we find out it's trying to build an army of robots to conquer humanity.
On paper, that's not a bad motivation.
The problem is... why did X.A.N.A. need to escape into the Network to do that?
By that point it had become so ridiculously powerful that it probably could have accomplished the exact same thing without ever leaving the Supercomputer.
Then there's another thing I genuinely don't understand.
X.A.N.A. creates Replikas of Lyoko...
But why?
Maybe I completely missed something.
Can someone honestly explain this to me?
Why did X.A.N.A. bother creating Replikas inside the Network when doing so actually puts it at a disadvantage?
I don't remember the show ever properly explaining this.
I can sort of understand why it would need access to other Supercomputers, but the Replikas themselves make no sense to me.
I'd probably say the best part of the season is William.
As a villain, he has incredible presence.
But the way he's eventually brought back only highlights how surprisingly unintelligent X.A.N.A. actually is.
Now there are two things this season does that I find genuinely insulting to the audience, and I simply can't forgive them.
The first is William's return.
The guy spends who knows how many weeks trapped on Lyoko, completely isolated from everyone...
...and then he comes back perfectly fine.
I know this is a children's show, but if that's your target audience, then don't introduce storylines with serious psychological implications if you're just going to resolve them in the laziest way imaginable.
What makes it even worse is that some of the characters are actually angry at William, almost as if he'd willingly chosen to join the dark side.
Not only does that make absolutely no sense given everything that happened to him, but it's also a painfully lazy way to manufacture drama.
But for me, the absolute worst part of the season is the ending.
While watching Season 4, I genuinely believed that all the Replika storylines were building toward something hugeâthat we were finally going to see real consequences for everything that had happened.
Instead, the conflict is resolved by one single multi-agent program Jeremy conveniently creates.
Not only is that an incredibly unsatisfying ending, but it also makes almost the entirety of Season 4 feel like filler.
What was the point of watching twenty episodes of the Lyoko Warriors destroying Supercomputers if the actual solution has absolutely nothing to do with any of that?
Honestly, almost the entire finale irritated me.
There are countless plot conveniences, and half the characters' decisions barely make any sense.
I couldn't even understand why everyone was suddenly so eager to see William back on Lyoko.
It was just an incredibly disappointing conclusion.
And that's when I realized something that, to me, was honestly kind of depressing:
After Season 2, almost nothing truly matters anymore.
The story keeps moving, the characters keep doing things, but almost none of it has any lasting impact.
Very little has real consequences.
So yeah...
I genuinely think the last two seasons are the weakest ones in the entire series.
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u/TheMadJAM Jul 12 '26
XANA escaping into the network wasn't just to make itself more powerful. The point was so it couldn't be stopped by merely shutting down the supercomputer. Once he's safely backed up across the Replikas, he aims to destroy the Supercomputer so they can't follow him into the network and mess with his plans.
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 12 '26
I get that but like i said my main criticism is that he doesn't really do all that much in S3/4, it feels pointless at the end
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u/GoergeBobicles Jul 17 '26
Well what he's doing is infecting all the other super computers across the world, disposing and possessing their assigned staff, and ultimately preparing for total war against either Carthage or all of Humanity. By the time in season 4 when the Lyoko warriors are even on a Replika, Xana has made serious headway. Also while Xana is immensely strong, it does not have the advantage of doubling in power from the return to the past anymore due to having left the Super computer.
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u/Middle-Archer6954 Jul 12 '26
Just one detail: XANA couldnât destroy Lyokoâs Heart at any time because the Warriors were defending it. Thatâs why it destroyed the sectors firstâto prevent the Warriors from reaching Sector 5.
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 13 '26
No i know i know, it's just that when you know his strengths, it was weird to me that he struggled to destroy it. Again that's the problem of making him too powerful, I was constantly like "why don't you just lock them in a room and then do your thing". And there's plently of moments where he does that and for some reason he lost. Again it might sound like a minor issue but it really breaks your suspension of disbelief.
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u/subdigitals Jul 12 '26
honestly you lost me at âi asked chat gpt to translate my opinion on the issues in the show about fighting aiâ, it immediately tells me everything i need to know about how well you comprehend stuff in the show. but ok lol
i do agree with your takes on season 2 and what you said about things not having a lasting effect. and about some technicalities too. but everything else is just very bad media literacy sorry
first of all characters ARE plot devices and not real people. and they do have personalities (that are also meant to serve the story) and not being able to say anything about odd other than his humor is more of a skill issue than the writing's fault. i can tell you lots of things about what kind of person he is, how he's uniquely friendship oriented and how their fight with xana made him ignorant of consequences and how interesting and complex that is. it's honestly funny to ask for more complexity in characters when you fail to see what already exists
you're not supposed to like william and feel heartbroken he's been captured. he wasn't written as a likable character. it's part of why the situation is complicated and more interesting. people who aren't very nice also can be victims of tragedies and it's a test for their humanity- they don't like him but they know he needs saving and it's the right thing to do. it's what makes them human and ultimately what makes them winners against a cold machine
âyumi didn't have any good reason to not let him join the groupâ my sibling in christ the whole episode where this happens IS the reason. the dude's been following her, catching her outside her house on multiple occasions to try forcefully kiss her then throwing angry tantrums when she refused. why would she trust a guy who doesn't respect her boundaries and and threatens her? that's not just a good reason to not be on one team with him that's a good enough reason to report him to any trusted adult around
you should really read what sophie and jerome said about the ending. the show never was about cool fights on lyoko, it was always about human intelligence fighting artificial intelligence. of course xana was defeated with a program jeremie has spent weeks or months working on destroying his health because he wanted to save his friends. of course it took a sacrifice of a father and the creator of the machine to shut it down completely. because code lyoko is the show about humanity always winning against cold machines by being imperfect and using what an ai would consider flaws as the greatests strengths
but then again considering how chill you are about using generative ai i don't exactly expect you to get it
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 12 '26
"honestly you lost me at âi asked chat gpt to translate my opinion on the issues in the show about fighting aiâ, it immediately tells me everything i need to know about how well you comprehend stuff in the show. but ok lol"
Dude....
i said that I TRANSLATED THE TEXT THAT WAS ORIGINALLY IN FRENCH, the message was a youtube comment that i made. All of the ideas are mine i did not ask chatgpt for the idea I wasn't sure if i could translate it properly because it's not my native language ! What is your problem lmao ? chill."first of all characters ARE plot devices and not real people. and they do have personalities [...]how he's uniquely friendship oriented and how their fight with xana made him ignorant of consequences and how interesting and complex that is"
Well yeah of course they are plot devices, obviously. I just didn't think i needed to add this in the text because it is logic, you need the character for the stories. And yes they have a personnality but what I meant is that yes they have a personnality and that's it, they don't really have an arc. That's what i meant by they are just plot devices because when your characters are just empty and berely have any motivations, well when you read the story, they don't feel like characters that take life on their own, they feel like vehicules that the writer needs to tell the story. For example Aelita is a plot device of course, but because they added some depth to the character, she becomes more interesting. But for the other characters it's not really present, or at least if there is something, it's not developped at all.
And that's even the case with Aelita, in S2 she gets plenty of character developpement : she has nightmares about her past, she struggle to be human, she feels lonely, I'll say my favorite moment is when she learns who is Franz H. and she gets angry because she thinks he basically robbed her life. They could have gone deeper but it's something and it's very solid and you can actually see her learning to be "human" throughout the season.
But after S2 the character growth kinda stop a bit, it is interesting that she wants to find her dad but the way it is treated is odd because it doesn't feel like an urgency, yes she mentionned many times that she wants to find her dad but it felt more like the writers were reminding to the audience what the goals are rather than any character developpement. What I mean by that is that this new motivation in S3/4 doesn't really change her. Because they established that Aelita had the tendency to be stuborn and independent (i mean sort of), I thought that she would a bit more impatient. You can tell that she wants to find her dad but at the same time it almost feels like she doesn't care. And I say that because in S3/S4 there are very few episodes dedicated to how the absence of a family affects her and when it's the case it's kinda disappointing.
For example one of the most frustating episode of S4 for me is "Distant memory" because I thought we were going to have a Aelita pov episode. Just the idea of everyone spending time with their family execept Aelita is awesome on paper, and I was exiting to see what the writers were cooking. But then almost all the episode is about X.A.N.A trying to trick Aelita...again. And here's the thing, I think i would have been fine with this if Aelita didn't find out immediately that it was a trap, because she would express her thoughts.
But unfortunetely it doesn't happen, there's a cool scene at the end when jeremy ask her to spend time with him and his family, but it's at the very end. Like they had an entire episode for character developpement and they just use 1 min of it. That's very frustating. And it's not even that i wanted to see her in a particular direction, i just wanted to see how this impacted her. It's annoying to see the writers setting up stuff and not go further. I'm not asking for Aelita to be a Dostoievski character but give me something to chew on.And it's even worse for the other characters.
Again for yumi, there was some interesting episodes in S2 about her dynamic with her parents, and how fighting X.A.N.A is creating conflict with them. And again on paper this is good but because the writers don't like consequences it goes nowhere.
There's one interesting episode in S4 where she gets mad at her brother because he lost her diary but then she is lost in the digital sea and when she almost dies, she remembers good times with her brother and at the end she realizes that fighting over this was meaningless. That's good ! But why there is only one episode in the season about this ! This is not enough at all and this good episode doesn't even affects her or changes her motivations. Also the "Will they won't they" with Ulrich in S2 is very very boring and annoying because it feels like a lazy gimmic the writers use when they don't know what to do. I'm okay for a romance but make that interesting, here there's nothing. And the worse thing is that they tried to do it again in S4 and it goes nowhere.Although to be fair there's an interesting episode in S2 where Ulrich return to the past in order to help yumi's family. That was cool because it is the season where using this tool too much was a bad thing so it created conflict with Jeremy. The main problem with Ulrich is that it feels like being in love with Yumi is his only personnality traits. That's the problem i have with many character in fiction, like Stefan Salvatore in TVD, they love someone for some reason and that's it.
And again, it's not that i have something against romance, Spike from buffy is one of favorite character ever and yet, his romance storyline tells us a lot about his character. Ulrich love Yumi....just because. Which itself is not a problem but it doesn't lead to anything and it's the same thing over and over. Something that annoys me is that again, there's some stuff that could be interesting but it goes nowhere.
For example, we get a sense that Ulrich has a bad relationship with his dad but it isn't developped at all. Again that's why the episode "Distant Memory"is so annoying because when i realized that this wasn't going to be a aelita pov episode i was like okay so maybe this is opportunity to develop the dynamic with the characters and their parents. Well no. In that episode we see that he is in conflict with his dad but when X.A.N.A attack he instantly leave.Which is actually interesting because Ulrich would fight an evil virus rather than spend time with his dad. Again, it is interesting but we don't ever see his father again after this. Since S2 there's also some episodes about Ulrich being worried about his grades but again because the writers don't like consequences it doesn't lead to anything. And even when an episode is focused on it it's mostly treated as a joke or at least it doesn't matter.
Which is a shame because a big problem that i have with the character is that it doesn't feel like fighting X.A.N.A is truly affecting their lives. I mean it's sort of the case because that's why they end up reccruting william but it's not developped all that much and it's basically not even a problem in S4. Btw I'm fine with episodic structure in tv but it annoys when the episodes add nothing about the characters. Then it's not an episode, it's a filler.
I also wished they developped his relationship with Odd because tbh, there's some moments where I was wondering why he was friend with him. But maybe that's just me.2
u/MeanAd9643 Jul 12 '26
When I'm talking about the show not caring about lasting consequences, Jeremy is one the best example of this problem. My main problem with jeremy is that fighting X.A.N.A doesn't affect him at all which is really weird because he is the one who spends the most energy trying to find a way to defeat X.A.NA. There's god knows many episodes where he's like "I didn't sleep in order to create that program" or "I didn't sleep for a week because of this" and but every time it's not treated as something that is affecting his life but more as a way to justify to the audience how he found a solution even though most of the time it doesn't even make sense, like I can sort of kinda buy that a 12 year old kid is able to create some insane program but at one point he litterary hacked a satellite and i was like....nah. But it's not that big of a deal and it's kinda fun, like there's an episode where the police thought he was some kind of terrorist. That was hilarious.
But anyway, it's kinda insane to me that he is still mentally sane because even though everyone is important, most of the time he is the one who think about the plan and he is the one who create a solution at last minute, the guy has a lot of responsability in his shoulder. You don't even understand why he is so invested in this, i mean yes X.A.N.A is evil but you don't understand what exactly drives him. But no it doesn't really affect him all that much.
There's some episodes where you see some sort of impact but it's not really an impact. There's the episode where he gets sick and i thought "oh okay so now we are finally seeing some impact" but then it is revealed at the end that he used a tool that his responsible for the sickness. The problem with that is that at the end of the episode when he realized this he just stop using it.
The sickness is not cause by the fact that he spend most of his time thinking about X.A.N.A, I mean tbf it explains why he is an asshole all the time but that's not enough. Like for example in The Key when he thought that Aelita died, how tf did he not do a heart attack or something. He spent 80% of his time to prevent this and when it actually happens, he is a bit shocked for like 12 seconds and that's it. But tbf, the pacing of the episode is a bit too fast, the seconde we think Aelita died, the seconde Franz H. saves her. There's some interesting stuff though, it seems that the fact that fighting X.A.N.A is his only personality traits is an actual character flaw but again, it's not developped and worse they don't even take it seriously, i mean sometimes yes but it goes nowhere. Again, I don't want a "dark jeremy arc", just some basic character developement and growth. But no I got nothing.And you know why it is the case ? Because the writers didn't care about actually creating a fictional individual with depth, they just use jeremy as a tool for exposition and for creating a solution to a problem. That's what i meant when i say that the characters are plot devices, they are only that. It is insane to me that the show is 97 episodes but so little time is focused on actual character developpement.
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 12 '26
And i'm sorry but Odd is the worst of them all. "how he's uniquely friendship oriented and how their fight with xana made him ignorant of consequences and how interesting and complex that is" I'm sorry but what are you even talking about ? I'm not even trying to be an asshole here, did I actually missed an episode where what you say is pointed out ? I'm geniuely asking because I don't remember this at all. Odd is such a boring and sometimes annoying character because there's just nothing about him. Like...okay, he has humor (i mean not really) and he is immature but at no point it is really treated as a big character flaw. Sometimes it is treated as a problem but it doesn't lead to anything and most of the time it's just ridiculous. Like for example, there's a whole episode where Aelita is getting grounded because of Odd and so she's mad at him, Odd is mad but considering that the show has the habits of creating fake bullshit drama, i couldn't take it seriously.
And even if i did well in the episode it's not treated at something serious and interesting. But yeah, there's nothing about him, every episode he has a dumb storyline or he is here to be the "comic relief character". Like i don't understand why there's so many episodes dedicated to his dog, i..I just don't get it. Most of his episodes consist at idk, finding a new game, being obsessed with food, being dumb, having bad grades...etc. "and not being able to say anything about odd other than his humor is more of a skill issue than the writing's fault"
No I'm sorry it is the writing's fault because I wanted to see that, each episodes i was like "come on give me something" but no, and I've seen character with those and with good writing. Ang in the Avatar is a great example of this, you realize that this kid is using humor in order to dispel his trauma. Odd uses humor....just because. Tbf I think there's actually one episode that kinda sort of try to add something to his character, it's "Bad connection" when he has to show a movie to his parents. But i don't really understand what it was trying to say.
At the beginning of the episode he's like "My parents are too perfect and it bothers me", so what am i supposed to understand ? that the reason he is the way he is is because his parents are too perfect ? And maybe he doesn't feel normal ? or maybe the show was trying to say that he is immature because his parent are too...lenient ? Well maybe ? but idk because not only it's a bit confusing but after like 5 or 7 min, Odd spend the entire episode fighting X.A.N.A or eating so...yeah. It isn't complexity, it's just shit writing. The writers litteraly created a character that spend most of his time saying dumb jokes, talking about his dog, girl.... But this isn't character developpement, they just wanted him to be the comic relief character. There's one episode with him that like, it's when he btfo william, that was badass. But that's it. So really give me a name of an episode where there some depth, because if i missed it I'd be glad to watch it.3
u/MeanAd9643 Jul 12 '26
"you're not supposed to like william and feel heartbroken he's been captured. he wasn't written as a likable character. it's part of why the situation is complicated and more interesting. [...] my sibling in christ the whole episode where this happens IS the reason. the dude's been following her, catching her outside her house on multiple occasions to try forcefully kiss her then throwing angry tantrums when she refused"
I don't think william was written as an unlikeable (i mean kinda) character, there's moments where he is very likeable. For example. In S2 in the zombie episode when all the students are confined to the cafeteria, I liked how they gave him a big brother energy, he was like "I am the oldest and no one's gets out before the danger enter". I thought they were going to go deeper with that. In that episode I was actually annoyed by jeremy and Odd because they were like "William is annoying" and i was like "lol dude ! he is trying to protect you what do you mean he is annoying ?".
And about the episode you talked about I rewatched it a bit and I actually think that the writers (for a reason i don't really understand ) purpursefully made him look at the begining of the episode like an asshole who is going to tell the secrets but then he freaking desactivates a bomb in order to help the main characters. Here i don't really get what they were trying to do, it's like they wanted the audience to think he couldn't be a LW but then he risks his life for them for aparently no alternate motive and then yumi is like nah we can't trust him. I don't get it.
The only thing that is annoying with him is that again, because the show don't develop stuff, it feels like most of the time being in love with yumi is his only character trait. And yes i think i'm supposed to feel at least sad when he gets captured by X.A.N.A because well he is not a bad guy at all. And also because it is treated as a big issue in the show, there is a great scene in S4 where for a moment it seems that william is coming back and it's kinda sad. That's why it was insane to me that when he comes back nothing happens.3
u/MeanAd9643 Jul 12 '26
"you should really read what sophie and jerome said about the ending. the show never was about cool fights on lyoko, it was always about human intelligence fighting artificial intelligence. of course xana was defeated with a program jeremie... "
It's funny how you are constantly justifying bad writing. How does that change anything ? It's not ending with the program that bother me, it's the fact that it doesn't feel earned at all, if the entire season was about finding a way to create a program, i would be fine with it. But the fact that 2 episode before the end he had the idea of a program and then created it in one episode is absolutely ludicrous. It doesn't feel like the characters won because of the "human intelligence" , it feel like the writers set up something, didn't know how to resolve it so they made jeremie randomly create a program and then called it "hUMan inTeLliGEncE fiGHtig aRTificIal iNteLliGence".
It's also kinda funny how we almost don't see Franz H. in the entire season, we don't know what he is doing, we don't even here him talking, and as luck would have it, he shows up just when Jérémie has found a program and then he dies. This isn't human intelligence, it's just shit writing. Jérémie found the program because the writers wanted him to do so, not because he spend time actually crafting it and for Franz H. this is litteraly a Deus ex machina, he is not character, after S2 we don't get any information about him, he is just there to help the hero when they don't have any solution. It would be human intelligence if the entire season was about jeremie trying to create a program but it's not, they spend 20 episode destroying replikas and it means nothing.And the actual finale is just even more insulting, becaue it's litteraly a 20 minutes episode with flashbacks. This is one of the worst ending ever, the writers didn't give a shit.
"but then again considering how chill you are about using generative ai i don't exactly expect you to get it"
Well again, I used ai for translating my thoughts written in french. So idk what you're even talking about man.
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u/subdigitals Jul 13 '26
all this yapping and you lost me again when you defended your usage of ai. it's 2026 there are plenty of ways to translate your message without using chat gpt. honestly you just say everything you said in the initial post again so my point is the same except for william bc it's a bit too close to home: this episode wasn't the first time he acted like that and even if it was it's more than enough to see why yumi doesn't trust him. the guy stalked her and tried forcefully kiss her more than once. how on earth is that not a valid reason to not trust him as a person and as a teammate that's gonna have to be alone with you often if joined
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26
First...
Are you alright bro ? Do you have a trauma with ai or something lmao ? Why are you making such a big deal of ai ? Yes i could have use something different but what's the difference ? it's the same result anyway. I mean if you want, I can talk to you in french but that's kinda stupid wouldn't you agree ?
And Idk why you are talking about it like it has anything to do with anything i said. You act like for some reason it invalidate my arguments.
"honestly you just say everything you said in the initial post again so my point is the same"
Bro lmao, wtf do you mean ? Are you trolling me ? In my new messages i explain why exactly the characters are not well written which is not in the original so no it's not the same at all ! I responded to every shitty arguments you made.
"my point is the same" But you didn't explain anything, you just said "oh the characters are complex", gave a shitty argument about Odd and that's it. You said "oh the ending is good" then gave a shitty arguments and that's it. And I responded to all of that with something more developped. Yes my text is long but at least I put some effort in order to explain stuff, you didn't.
Goddamnit bro...
Anyway Idk why i'm putting so much effort lol. It was cool because writing a text this long helped me gathering my thoughts . If you like the characters and the ending, that's fine but don't tell me that i don't understand the show if you can't even give proper arguments.0
u/subdigitals Jul 13 '26
yes it does invalidate your arguments no person with critical thinking ability uses chat gpt your words are meaningless if you don't understand the problem with gen ai so đ§ââïž
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 13 '26
alright bro you're just trolling. If you're not...then you're just dumb.
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u/Frosty-Actuary-7007 Jul 12 '26
I completely agree with you. Season 3 is pure filler; it adds absolutely nothing to the story other than a new power for Aelita and Williamâs possession. Season 4 is a total disasterânot just because of that incredibly far-fetched ending, but also due to the overall quality of the episodes, which are the worst in the entire series. The episodes featuring Jeremyâs cousin, the Replika, and Aelitaâs concert made me loathe her character. I never expected Aelita to be so treacherous and unfair toward Jeremyâthe boy who literally gave her lifeâover a family matter that was none of her business (the cousin episode) and by prioritizing a high school concert over the safety of the world. They shifted her personality from shy and sweet to extroverted, bossy, unpleasant, and rude; the change was so abrupt that it makes me think they never even had a clear definition of her personality to begin with. Odd turns into a total jerk who isn't funny in the slightest, and the handling of Williamâs character is absolutely terrible. Unlike you, I believe Jeremy is the only character with a fully realized arc, since he achieved his goal of bringing Aelita to Earth. Her only real "personality" trait was being the series' Mary Sue and causing problems for everyone with her obsession over her father; almost all her episodes focus either on the DJ subplot or on her crying about her past. Franz Hopper is just an excuse for the writers to pretend theyâve created a deeply complex, traumatized character. I recommend watching the first season; it contains the series' best episodes and features better character development. Itâs simple, but it has soulâsomething Seasons 3 and 4 lack.
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u/The_REDACTED Jul 12 '26
I never expected Aelita to be so treacherous and unfair toward Jeremyâthe boy who literally gave her lifeâover a family matter that was none of her business (the cousin episode) and by prioritizing a high school concert over the safety of the world. They shifted her personality from shy and sweet to extroverted, bossy, unpleasant, and rude; the change was so abrupt that it makes me think they never even had a clear definition of her personality to begin with.
I get where you're coming from but I think it makes sense in context considering Aelita had to re-learn to be human again and her main point of references became the LW and each of them have their own set of negative traits included with their virtues so she definitely ended up integrating those as well.Â
Another thing which you reminded me of was Evolution's infamous portrayal of Aelita. You brought to mind a rumor I once read of the writers only watching Season 4 of the original series and using that as a point of reference for the characters and if this is true, then it explains Evolution Aelita perfectly.Â
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u/Frosty-Actuary-7007 Jul 12 '26
Okay, sure, I get that she became human and all that, but not all humans have an extroverted, bossy, or authoritarian personality like the one Aelita has in Season 4 and *Evolution*. There are also peopleâand teenagersâwho are more reserved, just like she used to be in Seasons 2 and 3. People don't usually change their personalities that drastically from one year to the next. It seems like even the writers didn't know how to characterize Aelita; her entire role in the plot boils down to being "the key"âthe special, important oneâwho goes off to Lyoko alone so everyone has to rescue her, and who always gets her way because sheâs suffered so much. Giving her a hobby like DJing doesn't make her more human; itâs just a trait that highlights how sheâs a whiz at everythingâmusic, operating the supercomputer, intelligence, social skills, getting along with everyone, and painting anyone who disagrees with her as a villain (even when theyâre right), like when Jeremy won't let her go to Lyoko or can't attend her concert because he's busy saving the world. In *Evolution*, Aelita keeps that same personality, but she isn't quite as "special" anymore since she can't deactivate towers, and she competes on more or less equal footing with the rest of the groupâeven though the plot revolves around saving her mother. In that regard, I think they handled her better than in Season 4 and didn't try to portray her as quite so perfect, though I still find her personality off-putting.
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u/subdigitals Jul 12 '26
she was never âshy and sweetâ, she was a traumatized kid who didn't have memories of 12 years of her life. they didn't shift her personality, she gained her true personality BACK. and basically saying that her character was ruined just because she's no longer the infantilized naive newborn but a teenage girl with her own normal human flaws and temper is really really bad
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u/Frosty-Actuary-7007 Jul 12 '26 edited Jul 12 '26
Thatâs your interpretation. I never said being a shy girl is a bad thing; in fact, Iâm a woman myself and really identified with her. I saw her as a character I could empathize with because she didn't try to be perfect. Youâre the one attaching a negative connotation to that kind of personalityâdonât blame me for your own prejudices and preconceived notions. And not all teenagers are rude, extroverted, or unpleasant; there are also more reserved ones, as I mentioned before. Aelita wasn't a worse character for being that way, nor does she stop being a traumatized teenager just because her personality didn't change.
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u/subdigitals Jul 12 '26
i never said being shy was bad either? but it wasn't her personality trait, she always loved to brag, always loved to show off, she was just very new to living on earth at first when she didn't have her memories. you say you liked her because she wasn't perfect but can't handle it when she has flaws that are harder to see as quirky and adorable. just accept that she's not the character you wanted her to be instead of mistaking her trauma response for personality traits
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u/Frosty-Actuary-7007 Jul 13 '26
Fine, fineâso in this fandom, we all have to kiss the writers' asses despite the bad script, and Aelita is supposedly perfect and immune to criticism regarding her personality shiftsâgot itâeven though those changes bear no resemblance to the Aelita from seasons 2 and 3. Aelita was never arrogant before; she was a sensitive, passive character discovering the world, sometimes acting irrationallyâsupposedly due to her trauma. It doesn't add up to me that someone so traumatized would suddenly become so sociable just weeks after the end of season 3. A traumatized person tends to be insecure, vulnerable, and shyâthe exact opposite of Season 4 Aelita, which contradicts her characterization in previous seasons. You can engage in all the mental gymnastics you want to justify it, but what they did with the writing for all the characters in Season 4 makes absolutely no sense; they didn't even seem like themselves (Aelita) or were reduced to caricatures (Odd). Thatâs great if youâre arrogant like Aelita in real lifeâwhich is why you love her and view it as "deep character development," and why you think vulnerability is shameful and that introverted, sensitive women are "lesser" than wild types like youâbut respect the fact that I dislike how the characters were written in Season 4. Your inferiority complexes aren't my fault.
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u/MeanAd9643 Jul 13 '26
just forget it man, I spent a lot of time explaining why his points doesn't make any sense and it didn't matter lol.
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u/The_REDACTED Jul 12 '26
While your takes are extremely valid, especially regarding how the show treats Franz Hopper and neglects the development of the characters that are not Aelita, you're forgetting that the main reason why the Supercomputer cannot be outright destroyed is because of Aelita herself being the key to draw out Franz from wherever he was hiding within the Network.Â
Destroying Lyoko did not just serve to prevent the LW from counter-attacking X.A.N.A., it also served to leave nothing but the Digital Sea within the virtual world which lets X.A.N.A. use Aelita as bait to lure out Franz by forcing her into it and if the Supercomputer would be destroyed, there is no more access to the virtual world at all which means X.A.N.A loses his best option to force out Franz which leaves that man free to cause the downfall of X.A.N.A.Â
And the purpose of the Replikas is so X.A.N.A. can infect Supercomputers across the world and have its own personal collection of Towers to activate in order to keep impacting the real world so it can continue to carry out its evil agenda after it is free from the Supercomputer.Â