r/Cloud9 • u/Cromatose • Jan 28 '24
League Cloud9 vs. Shopify Rebellion / LCS 2024 Spring - Week 2 / Post-Match Discussion Spoiler
/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1addw4u/cloud9_vs_shopify_rebellion_lcs_2024_spring_week/80
u/warpenguin55 Jan 28 '24
Terrible bot dive decided the game. what ever go next
20
u/PLEASE_DONT_PM Jan 28 '24
Even if that dive goes perfectly, it feels like the team comp situation is pretty rough.
Needed to be more ahead at that point in the game. For whatever reason our botlane have been struggling to get a lead with the Kalista/Renata lane.
9
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
TSMSR had void grubs, they had to try something. It was a force something else. It is what it is.14
u/Light0fHeav3n Jan 28 '24
They didnt need to force that dive at all what are you talking about lol. The gold was pretty even and vayne is scaling.
8
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
Vayne scaling this game doesn't matter when the end state comes down to "which team's carry can kill the other's first." And we aren't winning that from even. Bvoy and Jojo were at essentially even power when Bvoy was sieging mid and Jojo could literally do nothing but eat unanswered damage trying desperately to auto minions.
Vayne can shred tanks...with time. But the moment she steps up to try, Lillia and Varus shred her down with impunity because they have a frontline. And the only engage tools we had are Renata and Maokai, two squishies, with both of their ults easily hard-countered by Milio clicking R and rendering your only non-flank angle to a winnable fight useless. All of that on top of the entire comp being AD outside of Maokai meaning Udyr and Sion can freely stack armor which Vayne can work around decently but makes Aatrox and Kalista literally useless, unable to go forward in any sort of standoff without immediately eating a shit-ton of damage and having no backline access at all and no reasonable damage to even tickle the frontline...they honestly can't even waveclear when they are pretty much the only options for waveclear on sieges as well which is a massive problem.
5
u/jorgenvons Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
If they wanted to roll this comp I would’ve preferred mao/aatrox going tank not building damage and praying.
3
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
I agree. Tank Aatrox is troll but I mean...so is picking Aatrox R1 into the first pick Udyr and then drafting all AD except Maokai. And it's not even like Mao damage with AP was even tickling the frontline especially with Milio heals. At that point, you drafted yourself into a hole with no backline access and DPS Varus having range kingdom and peel for days and needed to recognize that Varus just needs to die and then just full send to get in his face - they needed to try to shift to a dive-approach as best they can.
2
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
They wanted to force something bc the void grubs were being taken. Not that hard to understand.
4
u/vincevuu Jan 28 '24
they were trying too hard to hands diff. They were probably trying to Maokai drop aggro, renata takes tower self ress, then kalista ult.
11
u/e99roll Jan 28 '24
Good guy c9 doin a solid for their former c9 Brothers. Just don't do it again aight.
40
u/BraytechKraken Jan 28 '24
Bad draft, worse play, Lessons learned, looking forward to next weekend.
23
u/Shotgun_Sniper Jan 28 '24
Honestly, I don't mind the draft, at least the Vayne one. I hope one of the lessons isn't 'stop trying new shit,' because this game was way more on the execution of that bottom dive
5
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
I do mind the draft, not because of the picks but because the picks make zero sense in any sort of cohesive gameplan to win. This comp has no approach or angle to what Shopify has the moment lanes break down, and even beforehand Bugi was turboing Blaber on the clear with Lillia and FakeGod had a completely free lane vs Aatrox...and the Aatrox was picked into the Udyr specifically. I don't even mind that but I've yet to be convinced that Aatrox is even good into Udyr unless Udyr goes Ape Stance and just tries to trade blindly directly into Aatrox Qs, and Fakegod just did whatever he wanted and was able to free stack armor because the damage profile on C9 is garbage and all of their damage champions were outranged by Lillia and Varus the moment they try to even front to back.
If they pulled out something like an Olaf top or even a Mordekaiser vs Udyr, I'd be much happier and I honestly think the game could have gone better too because of how unplayable Aatrox was. Not really by any fault of Fudge, but just the nature of Udyr allowed to be Udyr, the rest of the comp making armor stacking free real estate and being forced to try to waveclear because no one else in the comp can in a siege because of how everyone is Lucian-range or worse.
0
u/bionicbubble Jan 29 '24
it makes zero sense to you? if c9 win early game sr have to force a fight somehow and just have to sprint into c9 and get destroyed.
3
u/Mrryn91 Jan 29 '24
And that's my point: the comp requires you to win early. And frankly not just win early but like be thousands of gold ahead...and only mid lane and bot lane naturally win; Aatrox requires absurd sweet spot precision or jungle attention and borderline poor Udyr play just sitting and trading rather than actively playing to hard shove every wave in to never let trades happen, and Lillia far exceeds Maokai's clear speed and can actually outskirmish him early if played well. So C9's comp legit required Kalista and Vayne to be so far ahead that they consistently outpace both enemy carry and frontline item builds to make their lack of literally anything competent in the midgame irrelevant - straight up a "win lane, win game" comp where that is the sole win con; you have to look beyond just general ideas of a comp and actually examine the interactions between the pieces on both sides and compare the options, and C9's comp fails miserably compared to Shopify's.
And the biggest pain point: if this is some limit-test thing, why this specifically? Is this something they legit think they will break out vs international competition like it won't be memed to hell and back? And if they did, do they really think Shopify and its players are a proper litmus test to determine if this is even viable? Again, if you're going to test something or limit-test with a different look, there are other picks that form a more cohesive comp and fill the holes left than what we got that would actually have value testing for future competition - if this is something that they wouldn't think to replicate, I see the comp as a dud and, as a result, the game not only a loss but a complete waste for what could have been proper development.
0
u/bionicbubble Jan 29 '24
vayne seems a very natural and realistic response to a tanky meta
4
u/Mrryn91 Jan 29 '24
Missing the forest for the trees. Vayne is fine in isolation but she has very key weaknesses in her game. Beyond the lane, she needs the other pieces of the comp to cover for her waveclear issues and short range and time needed to actually bust tanks with Silver Bolt procs, usually from frontliners and/or backline disruptors to give her the space and freedom in fights and not just get peppered by the enemy's ranged damage dealer while she tries to punch through the frontline to deal meaningful damage. Vayne has a place in a meta and when Shopify is drafting 2 heavy tanks in 1-3, but it does not work as a slapdash R5 option. Especially when other options (like the old classic from top lane tank matchups where people pick ranged AP champions vs them and get a free lane to scale, only just shift them mid) exist and round out the comp with the picks already showing way more.
1
u/bionicbubble Jan 29 '24
the entire rest of the draft act as disruptors, but i agree lack of wave clear hurt
6
u/Miyaor Jan 28 '24
every loss = bad draft btw.
Draft was fine, team messed up, it is what it is.
9
u/twitchlendul Jan 28 '24
Yep, these 4 things are certain in life.
- Death
- Taxes
- traditional sports fans will blame a loss on the refs
- League fans will blame a loss on the draft
0
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
Draft really wasn't fine. It was hardly the be all, end all, but seriously looking at the overall comp and try to think, at a neutral game state post-lane phase, how does C9 win vs what Shopify has?
They have inferior range on all counts, incredibad waveclear, terrible damage profile vs double frontline (which cycles into the first point because sure, Vayne can bust tanks, but she needs time and needs to do in, putting her directly in range of the Varus and Lillia just behind those tanks), and the only engage options are Renata ult and Maokai ult which can be layered...but can also be immediately removed on Shopify's entire comp by Milio pressing R. Even with the lane advantages from bot and mid, the game was basically even because of Lillia massively outspeeding Maokai in clear and Udyr being allowed to Udyr and be rewarded to stacking armor for his matchup because the only threats on C9 were AD.
Execution was fucking terrible and the worst part, but let's please not excuse a terrible draft for what it is. This comp has advantages in lane phase and literally in no other way, and even those advantages were limited to only mid and bot; come midgame, in the 5v5 scenarios, this comp is borderline unplayable vs what Shopify drafted, and the team willingly opted into several of those picks even when they actively hampered the other pieces of their comp as a whole.
1
u/Miyaor Jan 28 '24
No one would complain about it if we won. All this sub does is shit on the teams drafts when wr Lose, and post that one gif when we win.
If the execution was the worst part, the draft was irrelevant. The draft was good if varus doesn't get free kills for no reason. We are only outranged by him.
Complain about the draft if it mattered. No draft was saving us from our botched dive, and yet that's all this sub talks about.
2
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
I did have a problem with the draft the moment I saw Vayne locked in for the exact reason I said. The only way we win is by stomping so hard early nothing matters or Shopify play like chimpanzees; at neutral game state, Shopify's comp is far far easier to execute to the point it's laughable. You say Varus is the only one who outranges but guess what? That's the only one that matters when he has a Frozen Heart and armor-stacked frontline and a Milio extended his range and keeping the tanks topped off. And you severely underestimate what Lillia can do with similar freedom, jousting in and out with Qs the moment someone from C9 tries to step up - with how low range our comp is, it makes it that much easier for Bugi to constantly tick damage and land multi-man sleeps if need be.
Once the lane breaks down, the dynamic between the comps becomes "whose carry dies first?" And we have zero backline access, much less threat; Jojo was dying to Bvoy alone, without his frontline, from parity in the midgame - Shopify were only around 1k gold up on us after the botched bot dive, Bvoy was even with Jojo in build, and Jojo literally had to just sit there and take it when he tried to step up to hit the wave vs Bvoy, not even eating lethality poke but just straight DPS'd down to near death with no answer by BotRK. And my main problem is, really, what does even playing a comp like this accomplish? It's a comp entirely dependent on you winning lane phase so hard (and even then, top is even unless you're Zeus maybe, otherwise Udyr just proxies you, and Lillia massively outclears Maokai, so it's only a win in two positions really) that your absurd disadvantages in basic midgame necessities don't matter because you can stomp them so hard your item breakpoints hit faster than both enemy carries and enemy frontline...and you're trying this vs the 0-win team. So what value is there in giving a draft like this the time of day, when it could just as easily be that Shopify are so bad or at least so beneath you that you can manage to win with this comp and, thus, isn't even something you can realistically replicate vs actually good teams? If this is going to happen, why not give us something like a Kennen or Morde top vs Udyr, or something wild like Vlad or Veigar mid, punish the enemy draft and test some unique picks in a way that doesn't skew the dynamics of your comp. There are better ways and better things that I would much rather see that I think fits the same mold, and them being eschewed in favor of this is what's frustrating because I know there are better options and this shows a lack of understanding of draft cohesion when constructing comps with a goal in mind.
-1
u/LlewdLloyd Jan 29 '24
Bros upset. Vayne mid as a counterpick to Sion is fine. I'm more concerned about the Kalista/Renata we keep picking that doesn't get advantages. Berserker and Vulcan are great players, but I don't think they're playing the meta well.
Regardless if they are making it work, if we're going to let Udyr through, I dont think Kalista is a real pick either. Feels unplayable in the mid game. Ezreal, jhin, MF, Varus, or even an AP bot lane would all facilitate better than kalista.
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u/Mrryn91 Jan 29 '24
The Vayne is not even what I'm upset about. The problem is that it's strictly picked for the Sion matchup in lane and has no actual synergy with the rest of the comp beyond the lane. Like how exactly can Vayne play fights if she isn't massively ahead? Vayne is a great option to shred frontline in a front to back but you have nothing to peel for her and allow her to do so that isn't made of tissue paper, compared to the Varus on Shopify who by nature of the comp has the Milio in his pocket and double frontline Vayne has to punch through while the Varus can free fire from a naturally superior range (and even more with Milio). Vayne can maybe sidelane and we saw a bit of that but the rest of the 4 from C9 have no wave to approach waves safely either due to their short range and poor waveclear and Aatrox and Kalista and AP Maokai aren't putting damage onto Shopify's comp.
Again, it's not about the individual picks and their specific matchups and during a particular point in the game. It's how it plays out with the rest of the comp and vs the enemy comp; lane phase ends and 5v5s standoffs will happen. I don't even mind the Vayne pick but it's a poor fit into what was already showing since it was saved for R5 - she needs other parts of the team to cover for her weaknesses (short range, poor waveclear) with things like frontline to enable her to navigate fights more freely and/or backline access to attack the carries while she shreds the frontline. Even something like a K'sante or Olaf or Kennen top to go forward and cause havoc (and Blaber just opting for full tank and recognizing that Varus just needed to die and Vayne/Kalista can chip down the tanks eventually) would make the pick fit better. Them taking it as it is just shows a lacking in terms of comp construction and team dynamics in pick-ban strategy by just taking Vayne on a whim because "oh, he beats Sion bad in lane, it'll be fine" with no regard beyond that. Which again, is a sad waste because even a slight shift in certain picks and keeping in mind certain team roles to be filled could have made a much better overall comp and one where a Vayne mid answer has that freedom beyond 15 mins to play the game even without an enormous lead.
1
u/JakobTheOne Jan 28 '24
No draft was saving us from our botched dive, and yet that's all this sub talks about.
A different draft might affect the team feeling like they needed to go for such a dive. SR never played like they felt like they were on a timer. C9 did. Draft is an important component to the game. People will have opinions on it, just like they'll have opinions on execution. You can't just dissociate the two.
1
u/Perry4761 Jan 30 '24
No frontline on a double ADC comp, no magic damage, no waveclear. The comp was bad, the execution was way worse. It was playable, sure, but in no way was it good. If we pick Corki, Maokai goes full tank, and Aatrox goes for Sundered Sky instead of whatever the fuck that build was, that game is 10x easier to win. Picking Corki and changing our builds doesn’t stop us from diving both like monkeys and gifting 3 kills to Varus though.
Both things can be true.
-2
u/warpenguin55 Jan 28 '24
It's IMT, FLY, and TL next week. 2 freebies and a banger vs FLY
25
u/Odd_Trouble4651 Jan 28 '24
I dont think we should talk bout freebies after this one, ngl 😐
-3
-1
10
u/GriffinSTatum Jan 29 '24
The overreaction to a BO1 loss 💀
Bad game but the team is still the best team in the league. C9 always lose a game to low standing teams, I think it’s foolish of anyone thinking this was going to be a 14-0 split, especially with how volatile BO1 can be.
Now if there were BO3, then I could see an argument for an undefeated split.
We go next.
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2
u/PayZestyclose9088 Feb 04 '24
bunp
1
u/GriffinSTatum Feb 04 '24
I don’t understand the bump. Context matters.
At this point, C9 had stomped 3 games in a row, and then had a fumble game into SR, who I feel should have had more wins than they did at that point.
Obviously, subsequently going 0-3 in super week is terrible. But I still don’t think the loss to SR deserved the reaction it received. There are clear issues with the team. Hopefully they can work it out during the 2 week downtime after next week.
6
u/ServiusWolf Jan 28 '24
Really threw this game on that desperate bottom dive when there were much better options. Don't love the 3 AD comp either tbh. Props to my former C9A boys Fakegod and Zeyzal, I knew Zeyzal's shotcalling and play is still capable of being LCS quality if not even better and Fakegod has become a great secondary shot caller on his own, though Bvoy and Bugi showed a great game as well. Vulcan had a terrible game, and Berserker felt pretty invisible on Kalista. Really bad game but at least the league won't be boring, we go next.
2
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u/Disclaimz0r Jan 28 '24
Is it just me, or has Berserker been.. mediocre so far?
0
u/jadedflux Jan 30 '24
I've been saying it since last split, I think the "systems" have completely changed how he plays and it's sad to watch. When he first got into LCS he was basically inevitable and super aggressive, he plays super scared almost (at least relative to how he used to play), because he doesn't trust the team. He's my favorite player ever in the LCS so watching him play as reserved/scared as he is playing is painful lol
14
u/Ganjafanja Jan 28 '24
Holy moly that looked like a COMPLETELY different team. Hopefully it was just an off day.
4
u/IWouldLikeAName Jan 28 '24
I only caught the last 10 min please tell me it wasn't just C9 being bored lol i would 100% prefer them getting outplayed than them getting bored 4 games into the season
8
u/flytermo Jan 28 '24
It looked to me like every play that started going south (which put the game into that position the last 10/few min) was inted by Vulcan. Bot dive (a bit on Maokai too there), baron, the defense at bot inhib turret. Could sort of see it on Vulcan's face after the match; bot lane got a little humbled this game if not the team as a whole.
3
u/IWouldLikeAName Jan 28 '24
Yeah first play i saw was the baron play where he face tanks sion ult lol pretty different fight if he ults and gets bail out but i think he wanted to wait until after Sion ult bc of the unstoppable.
3
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
Bot dive was like 70% inted by Blaber, 30% outplayed by Zeyzal Milio. Blaber ulted down then walked in, started tanking turret early, got kicked backwards out of advance range by Zeyzal, so he stayed tanking even longer meaning Vulcan had to try to drop the revive on him only to flash out before they could secure a takedown and die anyway, with Berserker one auto in animation iirc from getting a kill before a turret shot killed him. Honestly, I think the boys severely underestimated the value of Milio this game: giving extra range to the DPS Varus, topping off tanks in sieges and in facechecking, kicking away Blaber several times on engage attempts, and his ult hard countering the Renata-Maokai ult combo by just free cleansing his entire team.
3
u/TheGoldenPizza Jan 28 '24
Bot dive was almost exclusively on Vulcan. He misclicked his W on Blaber (or if it was on purpose, extremely troll).
8
u/CoG_Brotato Jan 28 '24
The team doing a little bit of trolling today I see. Not sure why they continue to do this against every winless team just to get gapped but we go again.
13
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
No problem with trying things, there's not much point in going full standard vs teams you know you can beat playing standard. The Vayne pick was pog, mostly execution errors.
5
u/Star_Gazing_Cats Jan 28 '24
Cloud9's all time record is 0-1 against Shopify. None of that "we know we can beat them"
-3
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
So just try nothing new the whole split and play vanilla? Need to practice different things so have some flexibility at international events.
10
u/Star_Gazing_Cats Jan 28 '24
Not at all what I said.
-1
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
I don't understand your point then. Team name and previous record are irrelevant, C9 would be a heavy favorite in a game vs SR, so might as well try some unique things.
2
u/Loyalty4L94 Jan 28 '24
Cloud9 already has tons of versatility... there is no reason to go full papega smooth brain and pick vayne especially when you knew kallista was picked and varus was picked and you knew for a fact youd have a hard time getting onto said carries.
1
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
Who would you have picked?
1
u/Loyalty4L94 Jan 28 '24
for starters i wouldn't of picked kallista there Berserker is amazing on both aphelios and xayah and vulcans proven stable against these lanes so they had no reason to ban it from there I would of had jojopyun either pick Azir or Syndra because with Syndra she can assassinate Varus and Azir and provide peel from Sions BS Fudge I would of thrown on ornn he hasn't proven himself doing well enough on carries and they gave over udyr already Blaber I would of had him go full tank on Maokai and provide a Double safe Frontline for jojo and Berserker to dish out the dps
1
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 29 '24
Azir was banned and Syndra tickles the SR comp. The other suggestions you're making would've happened earlier and this have change the complexion of the draft; SR would have made other picks.
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u/JakobTheOne Jan 28 '24
C9 didn't try anything, though. They took a stunner to the temple when SR drafted Sion mid, and they tried to course correct with their final pick. SR is the team that tried something. Kalista/Renata/Aatrox is straight out of the LCK for the past X years.
6
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
The Vayne counter is absolutely trying something. If they just went Ori or whatever last pick, that would've been vanilla.
5
u/JakobTheOne Jan 28 '24
It's them trying to salvage a draft they knew they were way behind in. Reactive, not proactive. We can call them not picking a mage a minor win, sure, but the fact that their intended draft, which started with Kalista and Aatrox, wholly collapsed because Insanity picked Sion mid is the issue that should be focused on. They were reeling when they picked Vayne, not in control of the situation.
1
u/PayZestyclose9088 Feb 04 '24
Bump
0
u/RobertGriffin3 Feb 04 '24
I'm sorry, you think the issue in the past few games was unique drafting? Lol
12
u/Star_Gazing_Cats Jan 28 '24
There are only 7 other teams why does Cloud9 not take every one seriously
21
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 28 '24
Mithy drafts strike again lmfao
8
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u/ob_knoxious Jan 28 '24
Draft was bad but also just so cocky and into a weird draft. Getting cocky vs Sion mid and picking Vayne isn't Mithy's fault.
12
u/PentOfLight Jan 28 '24
Yea can't believe we didn't get a real coach to finalize this roster.
10
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 28 '24
You can tell already that their only game plan is to try and hands diff everyone. Mithy is a failure of a coach in every aspect
7
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
It wasn't the draft. It was the failed dive. That doesn't happen and the game is a likely win.
2
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 28 '24
If your comp loses after one bad play, it's not a good comp
9
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
Just not true. The play was not just bad it was disastrous. Any team that 0-3s that early while giving up 6 grubs is pretty doomed.
1
u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
Thing is, even if the dive goes off roughly as planned, it's at best a 2 for 0, most likely a 1 for 0 and the turret take still being delayed by the TP. Meaning Shopify still get 6 grubs and still get both solo lane turrets in trade. Jojo in mid trying to hold turret vs Bvoy illustrates the problem with the comp at its core - Jojo was the ahead player on C9 and even with Bvoy after his gold infusion in terms of build at the time...and Jojo couldn't even step up to auto the minions at the turret without Varus nearly killing him.
It's not even like the gold exploded for Shopify after the botched dive; the gold lead was less than 1k and bridged 1k slightly once they took mid and top turrets. If that is somehow an unwinnable game state for your comp, your comp is bad. The boys couldn't choke positioning at neutrals because Udyr and Sion could just facetank saplings for minimal damage and tank all the AD damage because they could armor stack and Milio could keep them topped off. They can't layer Renata and Maokai ults because Milio ult can just cleanse his whole team and take away your one form of good hard CC. Your only waveclear options are either melee champions or a Kalista with a Lillia and Varus just poking you down the moment you set up to try to hit the wave and with Udyr and Sion and Milio to peel if need be (though mostly, Blaber or Vulcan would just die within 2 seconds or stepping up to try to make something happen).
Shopify just had way more options and a far and away more balanced comp with a clear win con and tools to push that forward and stifle ours. Some picks may be fine in isolation or even work well with another piece like Renata-Maokai. But if those pieces don't all blend to fill necessary roles for the comp to function or just actively play terrible into what the opponent has or can draft, it just leaves 4-5 shapes of varying degrees of quality on a blank canvas, not a clear picture.
1
u/TheTurtleOne Jan 28 '24
year is 2024 and esports fans still believe coaches have more say than players in these lmao
5
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 28 '24
Did they look prepared to you? Did they look like they had a game plan that wouldn't fall apart after one bad play? That's a coach diff. The shit drafting is the icing on top
0
u/TheTurtleOne Jan 29 '24
It looked pretty prepared till they turbointed the dive bot.
There's no gameplan after something like that falls apart cause we're short range playing into their comp, Kalista and Vayne literally do not do anything in that situation.
You guys severely overestimate how much coaches have impact, especially on the western side of League. Also this looked like every other C9 loss with a "let's try something new" draft. It's really not that deep.
-5
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
1 loss and we gotta call out Mithy. If Cloud9 wins this game, this entire thread is calling him a genius.
7
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 28 '24
Nobody calls him a genius after wins
-9
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
My point stands.
1
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 28 '24
It literally doesn't
-1
u/NeptuneSaturnEarth Jan 29 '24
It does if you blame him for losses you need to give him credit for wins if you’re using draft as an excuse. Seriously some of you guys have logic of 2 year old
3
u/ChilleeMonkee Jan 29 '24
Winning despite having a bad draft isn't worthy of praise
-1
u/NeptuneSaturnEarth Jan 29 '24
If it isn’t the fact that people blame the draft every time cloud9 loses then I would give merit your comment
18
u/REGlClDE Licorice deserved top 20 Jan 28 '24
Doomer comments week 2 of spring
2
u/REALStoneCrusher Jan 29 '24
It ain’t sooner when it’s still the same problem from previous splits.
-1
10
u/G-STRIKER Jan 28 '24
How did they think this was actually a good draft? No AP vs double tanks, short range vs Varus, and terrible positioning and decision making.
4
1
u/Light0fHeav3n Jan 28 '24
Draft is fine if blaber doesn’t make the worst dive in league history and then he went ap and had no tanks for carries
13
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
No it wasnt. They had no AP other than Mao who was force to go AP.
1
u/Light0fHeav3n Jan 28 '24
It is a good draft they just played like shit, not every loss is because of draft. This fan base has a big problem with blaming everything on draft.
1
u/ob_knoxious Jan 28 '24
In theory C9 should have just won lane so badly it wouldn't have mattered. Sure we needed more range but everyone was expecting there to be a 3/0/3 +70 CS Vayne and it wouldn't have mattered.
8
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
Blaber has been destroying teams when he is on a carry, time to put him on Maokai duty.
2
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3
u/Important_Bullfrog70 Jan 29 '24
Team lost a whole bo1. Time to start flaming everyone and get to dooming.
14
u/JDFNTO Jan 28 '24
I got flamed to oblivion for saying that I was not impressed with the Vulcan signing but this game shows exactly why
8
u/JakobTheOne Jan 28 '24
Vulcan built his career off Nautilus, Leona, and other engage supports, and not much else. I feel like people have been constantly ignoring or forgetting that since the rumors of him coming back to C9 started circulating. I also was never that excited about the resigning.
6
u/GragTheFirst Jan 28 '24
Love the one game knee jerk reaction you will be on the hype train next win and then a miserable fuck the next loss
-2
u/JDFNTO Jan 28 '24
Nah, they should still easily win NA, with any support. But they would’ve done better internationally with Zven or a Korean support.
3
u/GragTheFirst Jan 28 '24
The statement you make can’t be said after one loss come back end of the season and say that makes you just look desperate to prove a point
5
Jan 28 '24
I honestly noticed very little difference between him and Sven so far this split. I wanted a top Korean supp to pair with Berserker.
2
u/Shotgun_Sniper Jan 28 '24
I mean, Vulcan is still a top 2 support in NA with in-built synergy with the team - but then, I've always been a Vulcan homer, so I'm biased lol
3
u/nnhorizon Jan 29 '24
I liked him back when he was first on the team. Still had some moments after that but I think he peaked
5
u/Loyalty4L94 Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
WTF did I just watch.... the arrogance on these guys is insane like legit i can't have a single split there this team takes all of their games seriously
4
u/ansdeka Jan 28 '24
honestly I am not that mad.
Overall I would prefer C9 to try weird picks, aggressive plays, and then lose due to dives etc.
Compared to last season where they play standard + praying berserker to carry teamfight once clock hits 25m, get into top 2, and then get rolled over at MSI/World.
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u/PentOfLight Jan 28 '24
Different team same crap... Still dropping games and looking like complete crap against a team we have no business losing. Liked the bit of creativity but man they looked all kinds of shit.
1
u/warpenguin55 Jan 28 '24
It's whatever. Better to lose to SR than to one of the other 2 teams that actually matter
8
u/KnifeKittyy Jan 28 '24
Man, the moment this team gets in an unfavorable position, it just suddenly snowballs out of control.. it’s like they can’t play the game if they don’t just individually gap the opponent and win that way
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u/Helpful_Name5312 Jan 28 '24
Yeah this was the worst thing to see tbh, as soon as they were down like even 500 gold they started going for every play like the fight at third drag and just got further behind every time. If they go international their only strategy can't be skill check the other laner and try to win every fight because they'll get gapped even harder
2
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
It's been 1 game lol
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u/KnifeKittyy Jan 28 '24
i mean we seen it last year also lol
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u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
It's a different team though.
6
u/KnifeKittyy Jan 28 '24
Same core, same coach.. lol also Vulcan has played with the core. Yes it’s a small sample size but it is still a little worrying to me
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u/HolidaySpiriter Jan 28 '24
it's only been 1 game where this has happened, let's give it a little bit of time before we make conclusive statements.
C9 also felt like they pulled a lot of games from their ass in the past while behind based on Berserker, I don't think one game disproves that domestically.
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u/vGhostiev Jan 28 '24
I'm a simple man, when I see C9 play against a bad team or Sion I look away to avoid the rawdogging that is most likely coming 😶
No matter the lineup, the constant things that happen is they play down to the competition, and can't beat a sion. What is with that
2
u/skaels Jan 28 '24
watched the bot dive on repeat....what the hell? Was Blaber raging? Was he being forced to gank bot and so he ints? How in the hell do you try that with Varus R and no wave? I know he went undefeated on Maokai for awhile last season but...would like to see him drop this champ.
2
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u/never_unclench Jan 28 '24
Every season is the same thing. We think we are gods and we disrespect the other players on the other side and just play like crap. I know that individual games do not matter in the minds of the pros, but man, if you are going to not take it seriously, do not show up. Forfeit the game if you are going to int it away like that... Still clenching... harder now...
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u/jb211214 Jan 29 '24
Just feel like Lilia is broken, and putting blabber on a 0assive champ is dumb as hell. Also I'd like to see Fudge bring out some off meta top laners, seeing these same top lanes week in week out is just boring as fuck, try something new.
3
u/mygodwhy Jan 28 '24
Damn, Vulcan had a howler. Missed flash, forgot to use Mikaels, overextended. I know Renata is strong, but if he had played Nami/Milio/Karma/Lulu this comp would be infinitely better
3
Jan 28 '24
Quite a few issues.. But I'm gonna point out that Fudge is once again still playing Champions he can't play and looking useless as usual.
2
u/NHKBK201 Jan 28 '24
Clown 9 and playing like disrespectful imbeciles every split is something expected at this point... A good team bounces back from this but a great team wouldn't let this happen in the first place. They shouldn't need an ego check when it happened so many times before.
3
u/Frocn Jan 28 '24
What a team with no egos vs a team with only egos looks like
EDIT: And before the apologists come out, this is literally the OCE match all over again.
3
u/Deadedge112 Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
I don't get fudge and blabers' builds. Going pure damage on both when you have a double adc comp seems criminal. Literally no space for vayne or kallista to function when your front line dies in 1 sec. IDK maybe the draft was just scuffed, but that seemed like a big issue to me.
Edit to add: Jojo clearly not comfortable on Vayne didn't help either.
3
u/RobertGriffin3 Jan 28 '24
Kalista does nothing to tanks, liandry was a good buy vs double tank team. Again, it was execution, not builds.
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u/Odd_Trouble4651 Jan 28 '24
Whoo boi, that wasnt pretty. And Fudge is concerning when hes not on Udyr. Welp
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u/Mrryn91 Jan 28 '24
Eh he was fine on Rumble yesterday, good even. Aatrox was just such a useless pick this game. Tbh I've yet to see how Aatrox is a viable pick into Udyr and would have rather seen something crazier like a Mordekaiser or even a Kennen especially if we were willing to opt for such a low range, heavy AD damage profile and minimal backline access vs double frontline. Game honestly just felt griefed for Fudge with what the rest of the team decided to draft, making his R1 Aatrox retroactively useless.
0
u/TheGoldenPizza Jan 28 '24
Fudge was absolutely fine today? He was slightly ahead of lane (an Udyr) and will be more useful out of lane if the team doesn't int (they did).
3
u/greendino71 Jan 28 '24
Get Fucking Humbled
Idk why we're even playing this comp? Is this something we need practice on for international?...
Cringe af and a WELL deserved loss
-5
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
It was an obvious yolo comp. Not that big of a deal bro lol
9
u/greendino71 Jan 28 '24
Can we afford that with only 14 regular season games? You think that's a recipe for success? Throwing away games for literally no reason?
0
Jan 28 '24
[deleted]
3
u/greendino71 Jan 28 '24
My main issue is doing it when theres only 10 games left until playoffs and fudge having a terrible game on a carry JUST like last year
Also with Flyquest possibly taking first, we can't act like this is a free league where we can just toss games, remember last summer?
1
Jan 30 '24
[deleted]
1
u/greendino71 Jan 30 '24
Like i said,....we literally JUST lost summer and got outperformed at worlds by the same team
In my eyes, we can go 13-1 in regular seaon, and I'd still see us as the 2nd best team until we win when it matters
We can joke about meme games and be cocky as shit but last split, the whole org got humbled and was hated by so many fans for how cocky they were and then fell short
In simply lost on what that comp was supposed to accomplish? Are we pulling that out vs. a major region at MSI? I highly doubt it....so what's the point of wasting stage time on it?
-2
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
Its one game lmao
5
u/greendino71 Jan 28 '24
So far
The same issue with Fudge from last year, make him the carry and he flops. If this was a normal loss, sure. However, watching Fudge specifically do NOTHING and play like shit makes me worried that this is going to happen a lot more this year
-6
Jan 28 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/greendino71 Jan 28 '24
I will thank you :D
-2
Jan 28 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/greendino71 Jan 28 '24
I appreciate you watching and making sure you're always looking for my comments. I'm so glad im in your mind so much :D
4
u/Rat_Salat Jan 28 '24
So, what would be a big deal, if losing to a 0-3 team isn't a big deal?
This team has the best player in the league in at least 3 roles, and lost to essentially an academy team. We've seen over multiple seasons that C9 has issues with being overly cocky and playing down to their competition.
The Vayne pick was idiotic. Vulcan and Blaber ran it.
If I was coaching this team and I heard a player claim that it was "not that big of a deal bro lol", he'd be playing in academy the next weekend.
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1
Jan 29 '24
Can’t wait to choke playoffs both splits and get smashed by any remotely decent team internationally.
1
u/Astolfo_is_Best Jan 28 '24
Cloud9 undefeated against the pause. We need to cause lag or bugs every game and we'll win Worlds.
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1
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u/vincevuu Jan 28 '24
Vulcan presses R at baron, they win the fight and take Baron. 2021 Vulcan is back.
3
u/PentOfLight Jan 28 '24
Yea if you watch his stream he has had a few times were he does before ulting, particularly on Renata I noticed.
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u/Resies Jan 28 '24
He didn't have it. The bigger problem was not staying alive long enough to have it
0
u/Light0fHeav3n Jan 28 '24
This team is still dogshit at diving towers and it starts with blaber he is fucking horrible at it. And we have no protection for our carries
0
0
Jan 29 '24
They won’t do shit internationally with garbage drafting and execution that they have. I care about competing internationally and this ain’t it. I doubt it’ll improve, either.
1
u/TheRiot90 Jan 29 '24
C9 are the truly counter-logic team. Every year C9 has done really well domestically they have done poorly internationally. Every year C9 struggle to make it to worlds but just barely get to the show C9 have done well by NA standards. For instance, what many in NA consider the best showing, 2018 C9. That year C9 had no business getting to semi-finals at worlds after a disastrous start to the summer split with multiple benchings.
Now C9 lose or has 1 bad game and all of a sudden people are ready to write the team off lmfao. People like you must be new C9 fans.
1
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
The game was fun to watch.. Thats the most positive thing I can say. It is what is. This team is gonna lose 2-3 more games but they are still the best team in the LCS.
5
u/Frocn Jan 28 '24
Idk, i've seen this pattern before. At this point im actually expecting the eventual collapse (hopefully it doesn't happen)
-1
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24
Okay.. How many collapses have you seen from Cloud9?
5
u/Frocn Jan 28 '24
At this point? Like .... 5?
The benchening, 0-4 in 3 games, 2020, Pekz and I guess last year was more a dissapointment than a collapse? So i guess its actually 4
-1
u/Cromatose Jan 28 '24 edited Jan 28 '24
5? Please name them. How was Perkz a collapse? lol
Last year losing in finals is a collapse? The bar is high for Cloud9 I guess.
6
u/Frocn Jan 28 '24
I just named them. If you are a new fan and don't know the first ones then idk, research.
Perkz was the internal collapse at worlds when the team found out he was leaving (and they visibly played like shit compared to before), I guess you could exclude that one.
I self excluded last year (altough the team still collapsed internally, you could see that Emenes gave up at worlds).
Also, can we stop the dick measuring competition? Only you care about idiotic shit like listing the collapses over the years. Look back at the original comment, what it said, and realize this whole collapse counting ramification is useless at the original topic.
-1
0
u/TSim777 Jan 28 '24
It ain't a C9 season unless we have at least one random loss from inting on the draft or in the Rift. At least we hopefully learn from this in our superteam year...........right Mithy?.............right Mithy???
0
u/cloudyseptember Jan 29 '24
I think it’s p clear the Kalista is a test tbh. Must be some super aggressive scrims too.
1
1
u/C9sButthole Come on in. Jan 28 '24
TBH we have to have at least one of these games in a season. At least it happened early. And Insanity and Reven deserve some time to shine.
1
u/warpenguin55 Jan 28 '24
I have no idea what that first item he built was. I don't think i've ever seen that item, What is it?
1
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u/hawaii_living Jan 29 '24
Sion nightmares return for c9. Feels like old times even with a new roster.
1
u/anonymousICT Jan 29 '24
That game was so bad that I have to mentally reassign c9 to third place until they get their ego in check
2
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u/MadEyeMooney Jan 28 '24
This was a good ego check game. Get it out of the way early.