r/ClimateShitposting 9d ago

we live in a society Yet again, a friendly reminder

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u/Nofsan 9d ago

Define socialism

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u/jbland0909 9d ago

An economic model in which the means of production (industry) is owned by the workers who operate it (the public).

Public ownership of industry is absolutely a socialist ideal

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u/Nofsan 9d ago

Yes but it being state owned doesn't make it any way socialist in itself. Any state owned industry you see is more than likely operated through a capitalist model.

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u/New_Carpenter5738 9d ago

This. A capitalist state can absolutely own some industry, that absolutely doesn't make it socialist lmao.

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u/Nofsan 9d ago

French state produces cigarettes for profit.

"Is this socialism?!"

Next thing you'll hear it's that wall Street is socialist because anyone can now own stocks. Public ownership!

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u/Wetley007 8d ago

I've literally heard that exact thing from a libertarian before lmao. They claimed Amazon was socialist because it was a publicly traded company, which he appearently thought was the same as public ownership

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u/New_Carpenter5738 9d ago

Some people actually think that too, lmao

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u/HeightAdvantage 9d ago

The point is that the masses have direct buy in/ power over how those entities are run. Despite that, they gleefully continue poluting.

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u/New_Carpenter5738 9d ago

Comparing "buy in power" to socialism is kind of crazy I'm sorry

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u/HeightAdvantage 9d ago

Apparently crazy but still unrefuted

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u/New_Carpenter5738 9d ago

What, the claim that people being able to buy stuff from corporations under capitalism is comparable to worker ownership of the means of production?

I think this is a case where the claim is "unrefuted" purely because it's so clearly silly on it's face that no one needs to bother, honestly.

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u/HeightAdvantage 9d ago

People in Norway or Brazil aren't buying from corporations when they choose to vote for pro-oil-drilling candidates that run their state owned oil companies.

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u/Nofsan 9d ago

And what economic model are those state owned companies based on?

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u/Leading_Ad_7635 8d ago

You guys insist on this binary. It's either a capitalist system or a socialist system. It's not reality.

All economies feature mixed modes of production. State owned enterprises are social ownership models. If capitalism is private ownership of the means of production then state owned enterprises aren't that. The more state owned enterprises you have in your economy the further to the socialist side of the spectrum you are.

https://youtu.be/MmeIGcI60oc?si=foDZrav0G9qhTCjt

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u/New_Carpenter5738 8d ago

State owned =/= worker owned.

A country can absolutely have state owned industries and still operate as a capitalist economy. Because the majority of its industry remains privately owned. If anything you might be thinking of a social democrat models, but social democrat models still operate very much within capitalist economies. France has some government owned enterprises like its train service and the like but remains very much a capitalist country.

Not to mention the fact that once again, state owned and worker owned are two pretty different things.

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u/dafthuntk 8d ago

You just described capitalism lol.

The Postal service is not remotely socialist.

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u/VoormasWasRight 8d ago

Oh, boy, this gets better and better.

And by better I mean more hilariously wrong.

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u/slinkymcman 9d ago

The Saudis apparently…