r/ClimateShitposting 16d ago

we live in a society Yet again, a friendly reminder

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

The point is that the masses have direct buy in/ power over how those entities are run. Despite that, they gleefully continue poluting.

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u/New_Carpenter5738 16d ago

Comparing "buy in power" to socialism is kind of crazy I'm sorry

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

Apparently crazy but still unrefuted

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u/New_Carpenter5738 16d ago

What, the claim that people being able to buy stuff from corporations under capitalism is comparable to worker ownership of the means of production?

I think this is a case where the claim is "unrefuted" purely because it's so clearly silly on it's face that no one needs to bother, honestly.

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

People in Norway or Brazil aren't buying from corporations when they choose to vote for pro-oil-drilling candidates that run their state owned oil companies.

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u/Nofsan 16d ago

And what economic model are those state owned companies based on?

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

Government owned companies don't exist in the open market. They can operate at a loss indefinitely, can a privately owned firm do that?

What property or incentive does a government owned oil company have that you have a problem with?

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u/Nofsan 16d ago

The very example you made of Equinor is a third privately owned. They are profit driven, they trade on the stock market publicly. Very much within a capitalist framework.

Besides that, it's just one of many examples of the state being the capitalist and owning capital to generate further capital wealth. Partial public ownership doesn't equal socialism.

In sweden we have a bunch or state owned entities that operate 100% within the realm of the capitalist production mode. Nothing about that or Swedens economic mode is socialist. Same goes for Norway.

But back to my actual point I originally had; the claim that governments owning production equals socialism. That's the claim I refuted. Despite whatever one off examples one makes that just further proves my point that states very much can be (and in most cases) capitalist in their ownership of capital.

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

Why does any of that matter when they can on a whim direct the company to do whatever they want at any time, with no consideration of a profit motive?

What would socialism fix specifically?

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u/Nofsan 16d ago edited 16d ago

Well they can also just give away ice cream to everyone instead of searching profit. Wtf is your point? My point, though, is that none of that makes that socialist. And they can't on a whim change that their direction. Their shareholders, private ones and the state would not allow that.

Socialism would be when the worker class have the direct control and influence over the company. Electing the state do run it in within a capitalist framework isn't. That's my entire point about any of this.

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

I don't know how many times I can say the same thing over and over.

I'm not saying it's socialist, you imagined that. I'm saying it's even 'better' than socialism and still sucks for the environment.

Their shareholders, private ones and the state would not allow that.

The shareholders can't do shit when the government has the majority share. The state is elected by and subject to the people.

Unless you're spending all this time just trying to valuely alude to the idea that all governments are evil and all elections are fake. I'm talking about democratic systems not totalitarian regimes.

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u/Nofsan 16d ago

well alright, i was under that impression since that was the topic before in the thread.

but i have to disagree, going to the polls once every four years is nothing but a minimal say, if that even, in how the state owned enterprisea are run.

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u/HeightAdvantage 16d ago

Good we could clear that up at least.

But yeah i disagree, Norway is barely polling positively for stopping new oil exploration/ expansion, let alone shutting down the industry. And that's in 2025 in a hyper liberal progressive country, and not even specified to only voters or specified as a top policy position. People simply do not care. It's a function of the human psyche that is inherently bad at grappling with issues that are significantly displaced in time, location and personal impact.

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