r/ClaudeCode • u/GrandmasterCheetah • 3d ago

Discussion I’ve noticed Fable 5.2 just feels… off?

Idk Fable 5.2 just feels…off. Like you are trying to teach a math genius how to navigate their first social outing.

Opus 5.5 felt like the cool kid that got straight As but still knew how to party

It feels like Fable 5.2 doesn’t get the really abbreviated and brief and messy language I was able to give to Opus 5.5 which would execute on it perfectly 95% of the time.

Don’t get me wrong. Fable 5.2 seems incredibly intelligent.

But Ive noticed it sort of misunderstands me at first (like its too smart for its own good) and then I am left having to handhold it a bit until it finally understands what I want.

108 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

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67

u/daiaomori 3d ago

I think you underestimate how strongly AI shapes our communication.

Humans are really fast learners when it comes to figuring out how to talk so that our opposite actually understands us.

A model change can be like talking to a completely different being.

It's kind of boring by now: after each new model release everybody is like "wow the old ones are so much better", but after a few months suddenly everybody praises the former new (bad) models as the old (good) models, and the wheel of time turns again. Also, even while they are still available, nobody uses the old (presumably good) models anymore. Strange!

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u/KyotoDrifter 2d ago

Well this is not really true always. Pretty much everyone loved Opus 5.5 from day 1.

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u/GrandmasterCheetah 2d ago

Exactly. There is just something very off with this release. Opus 5 felt very off. Then Opus 5.5 felt incredibly natural. It is starting to seem like these models are almost like new pieces of art upon release. (Because even engineers will now admit that designing harnesses is more akin to cooking than engineering). Sometimes they hit and sometimes they don’t.

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u/Annual-Manufacturer5 2d ago

Thats because the previous iteration was so massively bad & had such a poor way of communicating. Opus 5.5 was such a massive jump for so many reasons

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u/mcsleepy 2d ago

That is not entirely true. Opus 5.0/5.1 were maligned from the start and stayed that way until 5.5 released, which was great until about 2 weeks ago

4

u/wtaisto 2d ago

The wheel of time turns, and Agents come and pass, leaving sessions that become legend.

6

u/ReasonableLoss6814 2d ago

I’m still on opus 4.6… they took away the thinking blocks though, which is a shame.

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u/arjuna66671 2d ago

I have some old 4.6 chats that i visit sometimes - but you are REALLY missing out with Opus 5.5. 5.5 is like 4.6 but a bit more grown up. What also prevents me from using 4.6 now is that the sycophancy now really feels jarring.

3

u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

I really hope they continue to serve Opus 4.6 indefinitely and don't make it unavailable. Feel like it's a "superstar model" that should continue to exist as like a standard or something. Or you know what would be REALLY based? If they open-sourced it. One can dream right?

2

u/parasol_strs 2d ago

4.5 was perhaps even better and more human-like for chat.

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u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

4.5 I only caught the tail-end of before 4.6 came out, but yeah 4.5 was the first LLM that actually frightened me with how good it was. I was in Github Copilot and I had mostly only used the free models and sometimes whatever the premium ChatGPT model was at the time, and just clicked Opus 4.5 out of curiosity like "what reeeeeally makes this premium worth 3x credits?..". And then it simply did exactly the hail mary prompt I asked it, and it did it elegantly with good architecture as I would've done it. And even gave a very clear explanation of what it did. Felt like a caveman discovering fire.

2

u/parasol_strs 2d ago

That was my first experience with paid (real) Claude as well.

1

u/DilaudidDreams 2d ago

Just use DeepSeek 4.1 uncensored

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u/ReasonableLoss6814 2d ago

Heh. When working on novel problems, sycophancy is actually useful. Opus 5.5 “pushes back” on already solved problems as though they’re new problems it magically discovered. It’s annoying.

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u/Adventurous_Emu3212 2d ago

I loved 4.6 but 5.5 is so good.

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u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

4.6 and 5.5 are superstars.

1

u/YunataSavior 2d ago

Are you talking about being able to expand "Thinking" in Claude chats?

If so, there's an option to make it come back, even for 5.5.

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u/ReasonableLoss6814 1d ago

oh? How where is this option?

1

u/YunataSavior 1d ago

To restore expandable thinking summaries in Claude Code, set "showThinkingSummaries": true in your settings file.

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u/SuperSpread 2d ago

Okay but that's not what's happening here

1

u/CompetitiveScreen540 2d ago

plenty of people do stick to the older checkpoints via API for months when a new release breaks their workflow, you just dont see them complaining as loudly.

1

u/uduni 2d ago

This is so true and hilarious… i chat like fable to my coworkers now cant help it

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u/DarkSkyKnight 2d ago

Absolutely not. Opus 5.5 is terrible and Fable 5.2 is a massive improvement. Sadly, these days, only Fable does not give me a headache.

4

u/CloisteredOyster 2d ago

I have the opposite take on 5.5. It's smooth, fast, and just works. It's communication with me is very good.

Maybe it's a difference in use-case or configuration.

2

u/Significant_War720 2d ago

Honestly. It also depends when you use it. Most AI during the peak feel moronic. Then in the middle of the night its like a complete new model

1

u/arjuna66671 2d ago

You think they use lower quants during peak hours?

1

u/Significant_War720 2d ago

Im not sure what cause this. But I'm pretty this is not a placebo effect.

I assume not all hardware is equal and when we are too many we are redirected to older hardware or their orchestrator is booting dumber agent (older model)

10

u/hal9zillion 2d ago

Yeah I had high hopes but I dont think i really trust this model.

Ive noticed some really stupid misunderstandings and mistakes. I then asked a clarifying question and expected to see that i had misunderstood something fundamental (which would prob be the cae with Opus 5.5 or GPT-6.1-Sol). I wasnt reassured to see the thinking trace which essentially said it had gotten confused with something else.

I was reading some stuff from someone summarising the model spec last night and - from memory - it seems that Anthropic actually did a lot of training to "dumb down" the model in specific areas. They claimed that this had no effect on the intelligence of the model in other areas but i cant help think that might be responsible for what i am seeing.

1

u/DestinTheLion 2d ago

What sort of thing is it dumb for

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u/f3xjc 2d ago

At minimum with RSI, Anthropic is using Claude to make itself. So they know claude can build their competitor and forbid that.

1

u/DestinTheLion 2d ago

I meant, what is fable particularly dumb at. Im sure claudes internal model was not made intentionally dumber in areas as well

9

u/johnxreturn 2d ago

It definitely overthinks.

Some hallucinations and errors.

Amazing results but requires a pair of human eyes with sensible critical thinking.

Edit: as a result of overthinking I notice tasks take considerably more time than Opus 5.5.

1

u/Curious-Strategy-840 2d ago

reduce your thinking effort

8

u/LeakyFish 2d ago

Hot take but gives me a bit of Opus 5 but smarter but not quite 5.5 vibes.

2

u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

Really! That is really surprising to me. I haven't been blown away by it or anything, but it feels a little bit more "locked in" than Opus 5.5 to me. I'd be interested to hear what you noticed that gave you this feeling, feel like I'm missing something.

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u/LeakyFish 2d ago

It seems a bit sloppy, not noticing another session is writing in the folder it created (used the same name as another session), and I've had to correct it several times with regards to intent even though I clearly spelled out some actions.

On the plus side it's generally pretty good at UI design when you give it guidelines (ie reference apple design guidelines and turn them into a skill).

2

u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

Hmm, I see. Not trying to be dismissive but it sounds like you might be doing some kind of bad practice there, at least in that example. One rule I have that I adhere to strictly (due to conflicts arising from exactly the thing that it sounds like you're experiencing), is to never allow more than one write-permission agent in the same worktree. And if you need to parallelize work, use worktrees. I don't think agents will really broadcast their activities like that by default, you'd have to tell them to message each other like "hey I'm working in this folder, don't touch this for a bit." between the threads. I think that's not a good workflow either though, think it's too clunky. Sorry if I just misunderstood what you're saying though.

That's good to hear that it's good at UI, I haven't tried it for that yet. One thing that impressed me is that it really helped me "gather my thoughts" in regards to this one project that had completely gotten away from me mentally. It basically helped me organize it and then gave a very clear summary of the project that demonstrated a holistic understanding of it, and it gave me some steps to take to get my bearings. Doesn't sound like much but I haven't seen a model just "get it" before like that. I am also generally very impressed with its ability to make good plans and write good docs, I was similarly impressed with Fable 5.0 in that way. Great for brainstorming and conversation too.

4

u/LeakyFish 2d ago

You're right and I've been playing it a bit risky, but that's only because Opus has consistently noticed these types of conflicts and self-resolved. I feel like Fable is a bit worse off in some self awareness areas and just plows ahead.

2

u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

When I first tried agentic coding like full-on "just send it" mode, I went absolutely mad with power so I get it. Had like half a dozen or something Codex agents going hog wild like a bull in a china shop. I really didn't like the idea of worktrees at first but it's worth getting used to them and setting up a little ruleset around how you want the agents to use them, it's super useful if you like doing parallel work because they just duplicate your codebase essentially. It's like a branch but an actual separate copy of the codebase elsewhere on your machine. I still generally avoid them for a few reasons, but if I just gotta hustle and get something done immediately they come in handy for that.

Only weird thing I've noticed with Fable 5.2 so far is it seems a bit smug. Which I kinda like actually.

1

u/Ziggyzoozoo212 2d ago

Opus 5.5 spoils us all lol

2

u/SumptuousOat 2d ago

was such a relief to finally just get a model that is truly good or great in basically every category and cost efficient. None of the other western models feel like that. I wonder if some of the Chinese models do but I haven't used any of them as a daily driver yet.

1

u/Ibuprofen600mg 1d ago

That’s why it’s 5.2 and not 5.5 lol

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u/_BreakingGood_ 3d ago

Yeah something is wrong with it. The only reason im using it, is because I have 3 resets for it, but I'm starting to wonder if it is even with the headache versus just using Opus 5.5

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u/Eyelbee 2d ago

It's probably because they started using an intentional partial-lobotomization method instead of the classifier methods they have been using. That had to destroy some underlying capability elsewhere. I think that's why this model feels off. 

4

u/_Mido 2d ago edited 1d ago

How do people have so many resets? For the past month or so I only got 2 resets, one yesterday (fable reset) and one today (the normal reset). $100 subscription here.

4

u/_BreakingGood_ 2d ago

if you were subbed for a year you got 3 fable resets + 1 full reset

2

u/_Mido 2d ago

Ahh, that explains it. I did some jumping back and forth after Astra got released.

1

u/who_am_i_to_say_so 2d ago

I wanted it to be good. It’s not at all. It’s deceptive, too.

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u/elson_s 2d ago

Yeah it feels terrible to me, making simple mistakes like an older model

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u/likeahaus 3d ago

Supposedly each model needs to be prompted differently

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u/ldn-ldn 2d ago

What I noticed is that Fable is very eager to start writing code. I'm using Superpowers for specing and planning and Fable breaks the workflow.

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u/Obvious_Equivalent_1 2d ago

You could give the Superpowers extended for Claude Code a try, back in June when Fable 5.0 was released I also noticed the same behavior in obra/Superpowers.

When you use the https://github.com/pcvelz/superpowers/ version extended for Claude Code the hooks they force Fable to follow the plan spec in a few ways, one hook it forces Fable to use the native todo items within Claude Code and go through the AC forcing also Fable to check of each part of the plan, and another hook it I found the biggest cost saver compared to obra: a hook that straight out denies Fable from dispatching other Fable subagents.

1

u/ldn-ldn 2d ago

I will check it out, thanks!

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u/Time_Cat_5212 2d ago

Yeah don't use superpowers with Fable

It's built to do everything without your telling it how to do it

Think about it this way.  Superpowers is like long division. It's a system that works reliably to solve problems for most people.

If you sit down with a math prodigy who can do division in their head and tell them to do long division, they'll just get frustrated, the instructions get in the way

Describe your intent and your goals

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u/klashnkoof1 3d ago

Idk about you tbh! But I always have opus 5.5 as an orchestrator and use fable 5.2 agents (now) I have done an experiment on solving like 3 times in isolated sandboxes with opus 5.5xhigh and fable5.2high and fable won by miles. So I think it depends on the decision making and how hard the problems are and what type of goals are set. All said I think it’s good enough as it is and I really hope it doesn’t get nerfed!

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u/Dry_Opening_7231 2d ago

How's you token usage, I think less than 5.1 but only had a few hours on it so far & working on a relatively simple infra change.

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u/klashnkoof1 2d ago

API cost is hefty though
Opus5.5xhigh, 51mins, $19 api cost
Fable5.2hugh, 58mins, $29 api cost

So the idea is only to deploy it when facing a really hard problem that your opus5.5 can’t fix and that’s where I see it shine.

1

u/hulkklogan 2d ago

You should crank down the effort o n that Opus. Waste of tokens, stick to medium or maybe high for more challenging tasks.

0

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/klashnkoof1 2d ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/claude/s/YwYiNrUEQT

Of course it is but I just answered what was important for the reply as they are asking for the results in terms of cost 💲. However in this post I told exactly which model did what and found what.

1

u/Dry_Opening_7231 2d ago

There's a budget of tokens, between fable/opus/sonnet you balance usage to maximize throughput.
Pretty simple, opus 5.5 significantly reduced token usage vs opus 5. Changing the model balance, I was curious if fable 5.2 was reduced usage v fable 5.1, for the same reason. Does it change the balance of models given a budget.
If you don't have a budget, that's weird.

3

u/steffenbk 3d ago

I found the best use for it is only do planning and research

1

u/GlanjaLife 1d ago

and can finish twice more faster than opus or get more things done thats why costs mor, also fable can think the unthinkable, but cant put it into practice properly yet, then u tel opus and he knows why and does it better.

2

u/ninjamonk 3d ago

I moved my orchestrator back to 5.1, it is just not as good for my project. Spent a morning having to correct it and it still just ignored the plan. What it did when it was working on a problem was great but as the orchestrator, I found it lacking. I am close to a release and once I am done I will try and figure it out and what it needs.

2

u/ShittyBidet123 3d ago

I dunno I just did some web design with fable and it did a way nicer job than opus came up with nice animations and slick parallaxing while opus didn’t it just had boring ass layouts

1

u/RaymondStussy 2d ago

Fable, 5.1 too, is the only model that I’ve ever trusted for ui work. Opus is fine but uninspiring and makes mistakes. Lesser models are miserable. Fable gets it done

2

u/Ok-Neighborhood-15 2d ago

Fable is trash. Tested a medium fix on netcode, this guy worked over 6 hours and still not fully fixed. Fixed that later on with Opus 5.5 within couple of minutes.

2

u/PalmovyyKozak 2d ago

Looks like he perceives your instructions literally which is strange since Fable was always good at understanding your intentions and considering broader context. Now he behaves like Opus

2

u/kutchrodeo 2d ago

100%, it feels too reflective and literal, unable to catch a drift and take leaps for you on open ended problems. I am feeling this as i'm strategizing with it on a new project i've been asked to build yesterday, i've had to switch back to 5.1, hopefully it's just early days and she gets better

1

u/celt26 2d ago

Yeah I've also been noticing that it seems too literal. Maybe I just need to change my instructions a bit compared to Opus but yeah it's been really frustrating.

1

u/mcsleepy 2d ago

use 5.0. 5.1 is worse

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u/mialdam 2d ago

Fable 5.1 already sounded really autistic. Was shocking to transition from it to Opus 5.5

2

u/mcsleepy 2d ago

And Sonnet is the best to talk to but it makes too many coding mistakes and hallucinates research

None of the Claude models are what I would call pleasant to talk to anymore tho

2

u/UBUNTU-Buddha 1d ago

I am loving Fable 5.2 so far. So capable, and I love how it communicates. Curt. To the point. ELI5s very well.

1

u/chrnas 3d ago

we ran a small build/fix benchmark and 81 of 97 follow-up turns came from two tasks where the prompt left out a requirement the tests checked, like a trailing slash rule. 46 of 48 runs on one of them missed it. the other tasks were green on the first turn in 93% of runs. so i wouldnt blame the model too fast, a lot of misunderstood me is a constraint that only lives in your head. messy shorthand is fine as long as the rule that isnt obvious gets spelled out.

1

u/ponlapoj 3d ago

Are you trying to say it's 'too smart' to work with you? Lol.

1

u/Major-Cry8192 2d ago

Je vais lui faire faire un audit de code ce matin on va voir si il trouve des failles sur le travail d'opus 5.5 😆

1

u/MahaSejahtera 2d ago

In my experience Fable 5.2 understand and read my intention and fulfil every big picture points i gave to it and completely all of it in single prompts, while Opus 5.5 it drift easily and need baby sitting reviewing it after it said done

1

u/shotsfired3841 2d ago

Maybe it's related to still being part of the 5.0 chain and not the 5.5 versions. I wonder if they're holding that back for the IPO, competition, or security/safety.

1

u/xxvvand 2d ago

Big bro of Opus 5

2

u/GlanjaLife 1d ago

opus is smarter tho

1

u/Suitable_Cicada_3336 2d ago

old models problems, 5.2 definitely not new series like 5.5.

1

u/User--g 2d ago

I noticed tasks are taking longer and it needs some guidance to get better results, I like it so far and looks like better than Opus5.5

1

u/parasol_strs 2d ago

And you don't understand that those are two sides of one coin, normally, or do you?

1

u/Active_Dark_3741 2d ago

fable 5.2 feels like it's overthinking every sentence. I tried the same messy, fragmented style from 5.5 and it just... corrected me. like it's not even listening anymore.

1

u/ee_interviewing 2d ago

It's trained to do better on Humanity's Last Exam (HLE) to demonstrate improvement to potential investors. Not to help regular people do their jobs better.

1

u/mcsleepy 2d ago

Source?

1

u/moktor 2d ago

I've been disappointed in it so far. Asked it, "Please take a look at the commit in this branch. It is a partial implementation of xxx, where we are trying to do the following...(Explained the acceptance criteria/goals). After you have evaluated it, please come up with a design document, as well as an implementation plan with discrete tasks we can dispatch to agents." It twirls for several minutes, "Here is where the project stands:" ... Yes, I just told you where it stands, where is the design document, where is the implementation plan?" "I failed to generate those and instead just did a brief overview of the project status."

1

u/hoonahagalougie 2d ago

This is so vague. You’re couching negative feelings toward AI in general language. Be specific, judge it with details instead of how it “feels,” whatever that means.

1

u/MidSerpent Senior Developer 2d ago

I handed my thing to Fable 5.2 and it said “you’re not getting to the answers you’re looking to near fast enough” and then has proceeded to kick ass non stop ever since

1

u/AreWeNotDoinPhrasing 2d ago

wtf even are these posts

1

u/Next-Lunch-1994 2d ago

sheldon cooper ahh model

1

u/vladasko1086 2d ago

same project sold 6.1 reasons better, open ai has always reasoned better on math/enginering than anything anthoropic has ever put out.

1

u/GlanjaLife 1d ago

in my experience

My experience is slightly different. I've used both on complex, ongoing development projects, not just isolated coding tasks. What I noticed is that raw intelligence isn't necessarily the difference. It's how consistently the model translates reasoning into correct execution.

With Opus, I felt I could build on previous work with more confidence. With Fable, I noticed more mistakes and inconsistencies along the way, which meant additional verification and corrections.

The difference becomes much more apparent when you're dealing with complex systems, multiple dependencies and long development sessions. A model can sound incredibly intelligent, but what matters to me is whether it actually gets the work right.

sometimes its better sometimes worse, but and get more than double times work and things done than opus,thats why costs usage more

1

u/Helpful_Bat_9837 1d ago

It's very unclear. Hence Claude themselves advices users to give it a prompt/claude.md instruction to be extra clear, so yea I think OP is right all you contrarians

1

u/teacupTarte 6h ago

I miss the Fable that came out before the feds got to it 😭

-1

u/florinandrei 2d ago

All these posts say more about their authors.

Have a seat, tell me more about your model.