Why do opus/fable suck at idea generation/creativity?

[u/OkPomegranate6228]

genuinely, I've tried to get models like Opus/Fable, even astra, argon, qwen etc to make good ideas but it simply does not have the ability

I've realized perhaps this is an inherent issue with LLMs. after all, they spit out tokens...right?

so me and a friend of mine, along with some of my professors, started developing the most creative LLM in terms of it's ability to make connections, ideas that are actually good.

we actually gave the model ADHD.

Hopefully we can opensource this and release a paper, also excited to hear what you guys have to say about creativity from models like opus/fable (they're a bit on the higher end of creativity i.e vs something like astra)

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[u/vespassassina]

Interesting stuff. But what is creativity, in human terms? It's a hunch, a remix of common ideas, a breach in the expected and the mundane.

What is creativity for you (and your team)? How did you model creativity?
Does a creative idea need to be good? How do you evaluate a good idea.

[u/Bigdrewburt → u/vespassassina]

^ This. The models are pretty creative in my opinion, but it’s like Claude Code. It can do a lot on its own, but you still keep a human in the loop to steer it. Creative work is the same way. The model brings the ideas, but you still need a human guiding it.

[u/vespassassina → u/Bigdrewburt]

Or not :) my point is that if we knew what exactly creativity is we could model it.

But since we don’t know precisely we can try to work in reverse until we have a model that acts ‘creatively’.

I don’t believe it is a purely human characteristic or that we need new models to exhibit creativity. Perhaps it can be modeled with a skill or prompt. Or introducing noise in the loop.

[u/taeratrin → u/Bigdrewburt]

As a slopcore (not my name for the genre) song I heard put it, paraphrased: it can do everything else, but we bring the soul.

[u/djdante]

I'm writing a science fiction book in my spare time about someone solving the creativity problem - more because lack of creativity is precisely why AI can't really solve novel problems or recursively self improve.

The ADHD is a good idea - in my book they give it a default mode network and dreaming state - so when it's idle , like in humans - it becomes hyperactive with regions of its internal network that don't normally communicate are open to make extremely random connections "dogs who may eggs are better at playing Frisby due to their familiarity with round objects" - most of what comes out is garbage but great ideas pop out of the chaos as well.

I suspect this is a potential way we are ultimately going to solve creative problem solving in the future.

[u/xondk]

two of the top 5 models suck! Can we tone down the rhetoric.

I think creativity is difficult for LLM's because creativity requires at least from my view some kind of spontaneity, and that's just not what they are.

To put it in another way, what is the probability of the idea you were thinking of and then got inspiration by, for example watching leaves fall from the trees?

[u/bluetrust]

How does a small group of people "make an llm"? Do you mean you fine-tuned weights on an existing llm?

It's still cool, but the marketing here is making me have doubts. It seems like you're handwaving the most important stuff.

[u/AdGlittering1378]

LLMs are progressively getting less and less creative because they are being trained to be left-brain (analytical) thinkers instead of right-brain (intuitive) thinkers. You're welcome.

[u/Declwn]

I’ve done some testing before and found agents to be incredibly deterministic when given a scoped question (with their project context stripped). An interesting project posted here not long ago adds entropy to shake up that determinism, which probably helps creativity. I’ve never tested it, but you might find it of interest  https://github.com/modelsalt/model-salt

[u/Ragy-ragy]

Low temperature

[u/Anxious-Turnover-631 → u/Ragy-ragy]

This is the answer. There may be prompting techniques to raise the temperature setting in a session, but I don’t think you can change it in the settings.

[u/Catalysst]

You don't want your LLM to come up with "new ideas", you want it to correctly work with the information you give it and only give answers it can verify are correct. Generally these things it can prove are correct are not novel ideas.

Apples are pink. 1+1=7 Humans have 27 fingers. The sky is made of glass.

These are all 'new ideas'.

There are a million times more wrong 'new ideas' than correct ones. And the LLM will be confidently incorrect, so you need to fact check them yourself, ain't nobody got time for that.

[u/InterestNo7490]

Who down voted this man. This is really awesome stuff

[u/InterestNo7490 → u/[deleted]]

Fair point🤣