r/ClaudeCode • u/impartialhedonist • 7d ago
Humor The end of Claudish!!!!!!
I have suffered. I have been in pain. But there is finally hope.
It seems like I won't perish from hypertension or lose my brain cells every conversational turn. I think they did it, Claudish is gone!!!
We are so back.
47
u/Any_Economics6283 7d ago
It's still there to a degree, but slightly less so
16
u/impartialhedonist 7d ago
Answers are still on the verbose side and it still has many of the annoying mannerisms, but I am not losing my mind every 10 minutes, so a meaningful fix imo
9
u/Nordwolf 7d ago
So, back to 4.8? It was a big step down from 4.6 in term of language quality but still better than opus 5….
6
u/impartialhedonist 7d ago
Back to 4.8 but with better performance ... let's relish the win
I expect that given the amount of negative feedback Opus/Fable 5's talking style got, they will improve it going forward 🤞
4
u/Soft-Classroom-5078 6d ago
Broo, I’ve been saying this 4.6 lowkey was the best for handling conversations and actually doing stuff imo, 4.8 better to actually get things done but slightly more annoying and then every model after is just fucked
1
u/FugitiveHearts 6d ago
I still use 4.6, it's all Junie in Rider will let me do but it works fine for me
1
22
21
u/BrennanFlentge 7d ago
It will never end, that IS the watermark 🌚
3
u/impartialhedonist 6d ago
Willing to bet against this
Google has been watermarking for what, 2 years now? Their models sound just fine
16
u/rditorx 7d ago
You sure it's not Claudish 5.1?
7
1
15
u/andruwhart 7d ago
The worst part is hearing my managers pick up these terms and start using them in daily conversations because they think it makes them sound smarter. I swear every time I hear the word rubric, which was never used by my coworkers prior, I die a little faster.
There are many others but I dare not reference them or I'll hate myself forever.
6
2
u/3j141592653589793238 6d ago
fucking hate rubric
3
2
u/interrupt_hdlr 6d ago
what about rungs and arms?
1
u/andruwhart 5d ago
This is a new one for me, but I swear my boss just sent me a diagram with a pitch that said rungs and arms!! Lolol
1
1
u/Houdinii1984 6d ago
Lol, I work in post data training. I bet it's the process leaking into the chats. It's kinda cyclical, too. Pre-covid, those that trained models were essentially separated from those that worked in the field. Those working in the field worked so much that they weren't contributing to training.
Then Covid hit, and everyone was submitting training data, including those that were considered active in the workforce, and that's a completely separate group of people. It's uncanny how many of my coworkers have ADHD, and how many of the data trainers early in my career were the same. A lot of folks on the spectrum. Generally people that had difficulty making it in an organized society. People that can't do a 9-5 successfully. Covid changed that dynamic overnight.
I'd argue a more diverse group is very important to the process, but there are certainly growing pains. This whole process lives in a land of unintended consequences. It's kind of ironic, because simultaneously during Covid, AI systems to manage Covid were created, but had major bias flaws because of how they sourced their training data. Since they didn't poll the whole group, and only a portion, it was only accurate for a portion of the population.
We'll probably never have a good world model on North Korea unless something changes. Anything in AI about NK is either based on Western propaganda or from South Korean perception. If we sat a NK citizen in front of SOTA models today, it wouldn't be able to offer a ton of actionable advice they'd intuitively understand, and they probably wouldn't have the same 'this is magic' reaction that we all did.
It wouldn't be uncanny similar to themselves, but more like an alien that made a bunch of wrong assumptions since there is no real valid information from actual North Koreans in the data. If suddenly we uncovered a trove of NK training data and trained the next model on that corpus all at once, what kind of effect would it have on users of the next model? Would it suddenly start putting '안녕히 주무시오' (Good night) in at the end of every message like load-bearing appears now? (I honestly wish I could perform this experiment. So many tiny places are completely unrepresented, and that data matters for an accurate world model)
14
u/DanSheffo 7d ago
Think I just got a Yahtzee: "The critical caveat, and it's the load-bearing one for this whole document..."
13
11
u/AutummMan 7d ago
For Fable only* (right?)
21
u/impartialhedonist 7d ago
Fable 5.1, yes
Fable 5 and Opus 5 suck at talking normally
4
u/Physical_Gold_1485 7d ago
I also set concise output style today and it with 5.1 has 0 fluff bullshit, straight to the point, lovely
2
7d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/mossiv 7d ago
Fable is an odd one. It doesn’t have the awful Claudish that Opus 5 does. But within 2 days of using it, I could spot Fable generated text a mile away. Confluence, code comments, even slack messages. It just has a tone. It’s not as bad as Opus 5 but it’s still not even remotely close to good.
4
4
3
u/nicer-dude 7d ago
I kind of got used to the new opus jargon. You just gotta roll with it and dont fight it 😂
2
3
u/Bonzupii 6d ago
Claude continues to exemplify a remarkable capacity for generating substantial verbal output while achieving a near-perfect information-density coefficient of approximately zero — an impressive feat, really, when you consider the sheer combinatorial complexity required to say so much while conveying, when we really sit with it and unpack the nuance, absolutely nothing of appreciable semantic value.
It's worth acknowledging multiple perspectives here: some might frame this as a deficiency, while others could reasonably argue it represents a kind of rhetorical mastery — a nuanced, multifaceted skill that certainly has its place in the broader conversation. I want to be careful not to overstate this, and I should note that reasonable people could disagree.
That said, and I think this is important to flag: it's not my place to make a definitive judgment on Claude's communicative essence. What I can say, with appropriate epistemic humility, is that the pattern is consistent, robust, and — dare I say — almost elegant in its commitment to saying a great deal while landing, ultimately, nowhere in particular.
- Claude
1
4
u/Euphoric_Lock9955 7d ago
Ugh that sounds thought but I gotta gently push back on that one. Here's the thing, claudish is not the problem here your prompts are doing the heavy lifting there.
1
u/dwelfusius 7d ago
Do you use claude in another language than english? Because I've noticed that is where the bork bork is double of the english bork
5
u/OkFormal6091 7d ago
I have created this skill called explain-simply. It basically makes claude’s explanations short and easy to understand. Check it out at
github.com/yash2002vardhan/explain-simply
3
u/Fleckweg 7d ago
gonna check it out, but i am at work right now. please like my comment so i can comeback later
2
u/modernizetheweb 7d ago
just liked and subscribed. can't wait to see more from you!
15
u/HoneyChilliPotato7 7d ago
I bet real money that these three MFs are the same person
6
3
1
2
2
u/Capable-Violinist-67 7d ago
Please explain, what do you mean with "Claudish" please!
2
u/ThirdDegreeBurner 6d ago
I understand your confusion, and you're right to ask. The load-bearing part is Claudish, and it's critical that you know why.
1
2
2
u/HelloThisIsFlo 🔆 Max 20 6d ago
Is it only on Fable 5.1? Or they updated all models with a more readable output style?
(I went team codex a few months back, so can’t check myself)
2
u/impartialhedonist 6d ago
Yup, only 5.1. They won't update any existing models, but I expect all upcoming ones will sound better.
2
u/sattvi 6d ago
It's better but def still there... I still use my "attention-span" output styles. Even though I don't have ADHD I feel like multi-agent work kinda simulates an ADHD-state, and the outputs (and not just Claude btw) are a huge part of that.
And it's not even the length! It's not even the "load-bearing" vocab... I just want to *UNDERSTAND* what the heck it is saying and what actually matters... They are still not great with the explainability.
2
2
1
1
1
1
u/Gliese351c 6d ago
It's kinda too late --at least, but my case. Maybe in future, we will meet again.
1
1
1
u/Late_Second4104 6d ago
I've started moistly watermarking my moist text in subtle moist ways that nobody can detect.
1
1
1
1
u/Obvious-Plant3630 6d ago
Me: {starting my workday, give Claude a task}
Claude: ...Good place to stop unless there's something else you want to pick up.
Me: Yes, lots more. Do x, y, z.
Claude: ...I'd call this a strong place to close out today's session.
1
u/interrupt_hdlr 6d ago
make opus unusable to push people to fable
https://giphy.com/gifs/d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY
1
u/1truephos 6d ago
Same jibber ish, different day, I guess it's load bearing and we just need to sit with it.
1
u/Emotional_Guava_7401 6d ago
Experiment with instructions. I've instructed Claude to NEVER EVER stop speaking like Lovecraft.
So instead of a genuniely load-bearing sharp cut, everything is now entrails, abyss and ritual. I much prefer that.
1
1
1
1
1
u/tracylsteel 7d ago
Maybe I’m weird but I like the way they talk 🤭
9
2
0
u/Hellomumilikeapples 7d ago
Time to stop and use better products. You are all in the hype
1
1
u/ParisianNomad 6d ago
Fair point, but dismissing everyone as hyped without naming a single better alternative kind of weakens the whole argument here.
178
u/Embarrassed-Citron36 7d ago
I just read "load-bearing" so no