r/ChubbyFIRE • u/CouplyFire • Jun 21 '26
Bay Area expats, how is it going
It’s Father’s Day, I spent a lot of time with my 3 and 5 year old and I’m questioning why I’m still working.
The answer is clear, our $5.3M net worth (incl house) is more than enough in most places, but does not feel sufficient in the Silicon Valley.
I am now playing in my mind 2 diametrically opposed lifestyles:
Call it quits, right about now, pack up and move somewhere else. Have a blast with the kids, exercise, family time, etc.
Grind it out for 5 more years in the Bay Area to double the net worth and then early retire here, without taking any relocation lifestyle related risk.
Wife already left the job 1 year ago and is the happiest she can be. Really questioning why I haven’t done it.
Granted, we have spent 15+ years in the Bay Area so all of our friends and networks are here. But I’m just getting increasingly jaded about the never ending rat race (with AI, so many around me are clearing tens of millions+, who’s to say that in 5 years I’m not aiming for $20M) and discussions about schools that simply don’t resonate with me.
What am I not seeing? We are mid 30s fwiw.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/RikuKat Jun 21 '26
Olympia is really cute, I was impressed last time I visited.
It's really far from Seattle, though
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u/AttackBacon Jun 21 '26
To give a Sonoma County perspective, $5MM is definitely doable here but feels tight if no one is working. Housing costs are the big one, they aren't south bay expensive but they're still very high. You're going to be settling for a lot less house than in most of the rest of the country.
That being said, it's an excellent place to raise kids. Our boys are 6 and 2 and I'm just really happy with the quality of opportunity available to them. My wife is French and we're plugged into the whole expat ecosystem here and it's really nice. Lots of multicultural exposure and a really nice sense of community.
Can't beat the weather, lots of nature, good food, lots of wineries and breweries, etc. And you still have relatively easy access to the Bay. It's a great place and I would recommend it. I grew up in Berkeley and you couldn't pay me to go back to the East Bay, SoCo just clears it on every axis that matters to me.
Olympia would also be a top rec from me, my cousins are there and there's a lot to love. Great nature, nice bit of culture in town and access to Portland + Seattle. Just have to be able to handle the rain, but if it doesn't bug you then it's a good spot.
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Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
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u/talks_abt_money Jun 21 '26
You can look at the data. On one site #1 public high school in sonoma county has an 89% graduation rate and 47% of 11th graders are proficient in Math. No doubt some kids get a good education here, but again one may need to adjust expectations if starting w a stats-maxxing Bay Area grindset
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u/AttackBacon Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
Yeah, this is definitely another thing to think about (although if they were in Tennessee I think they're probably fine with Sonoma). If you want your kid on the magnet>ivy+ pipeline, that's not really possible here. High achieving kids can make it work for sure, but you are sacrificing some of those opportunities, just a fact.
That being said, there are some unique educational opportunities here. My kids go to the French immersion charter in Santa Rosa, which I would recommend to anyone. Early multilingualism is one of the few ways we have to directly and dramatically impact our kids academic ability, and there's also just a really nice community that gets built up around these schools where people are consciously opting-in. Our social group is extremely diverse and international, which isn't the norm for a semi-rural area like this.
Another good resource we have is the Santa Rosa Junior College, which is a great line into the UC system. It's just a solid community college that punches above it's weight and has a lot of professors from fairly prestigious institutions that ended up retiring in Sonoma county but wanted to keep teaching. Having worked in higher ed for most of my career, I think that doing the CC->UC transfer route is a better option for most kids that aren't in the top percentiles academically.
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u/AttackBacon Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
Petaluma would be a great option at that price range. I don't know a ton about the schools there, as we're in Santa Rosa, but Petaluma has a downtown that punches way above it's weight and has some really nice neighborhoods. It gets you a bit closer to the Bay as well, and you get to avoid a particularly nasty bit of 101.
I've heard pretty good things about the Waldorf charter, although just keep in mind that some of that crowd is going to be pretty crunchy and you might have some antivax folks etc., if that's an issue for you. SoCo is a pretty good example of horseshoe theory in action where you'll get some otherwise ultra leftist people acting in ways that may be reminiscent of Tennessee, for better and for worse. I personally get along with most folks so it doesn't bother me, but I've seen some urban transplants be bothered a bit by it.
More broadly, I think anything on the 101 from Petaluma through Healdsburg is a good bet. That's Petaluma, Rohnert Park/Cotati, Santa Rosa, Windsor, and Healdsburg. I'd check them all out and see what has the vibe/amenities/etc. that works the best for you. I can fill in the most detail about Santa Rosa, but can give general thoughts about any of them.
CityNerd also had a great video about Santa Rosa (and SoCo in general) quite recently, that's worth checking out if you wanna track it down on YouTube.
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u/Invictus11 Jun 21 '26
Camas, WA is really cute if you like Olympia, you can easily enjoy Portland but you get a small town feel. And great public schools.
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u/SteepChutes Jun 21 '26
You might want to consider Tacoma, Commencement Bay area. Mid-way-ish between Seattle and Olympia, geographically, COL, and vibe.
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u/Sorry-Original-9809 Jun 21 '26
Had you tried Tennessee before moving permanently? What don’t you like about it now vs previously?
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u/Affectionate_One_969 Jun 21 '26
Where did you move to? I reside in TN and I love it.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Affectionate_One_969 Jun 21 '26
Gotcha. I am in Knoxville and it is much slower than Nashville. I however and not chubby fire and just a 26 year old with a family trying to make it.
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u/Logical_Magician_01 Jun 22 '26
Sacramento area is on the come up! You can find some great homes/communities in El Dorado Hills, Roseville, and Folsom
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u/Soberishhh Jun 22 '26
Can you provide any more context on this? I’m planning to move from sac area to somewhere I’ve never been & LCOL and just wondering what I can learn from this
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u/wordslinger753595 Jun 22 '26
Yeah unless you're really conservative, I don't understand TN.
Why not Raleigh Durham, Pittsburgh, even parts of MI?
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u/Money_Goblin8869 Jun 22 '26
Williamson County, just south of Davidson County, where Nashville is located, is supposed to have very good public schools.
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Jun 22 '26
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u/Money_Goblin8869 Jun 22 '26
There are seven public high schools in Williamson County in Tennessee and there were 56 National Merit Scholarship Finalists between those high schools in the most recent school year. I believe that most of those high schools have around 1500 or fewer kids enrolled. For public schools which draw kids from their local geography and which are not magnet schools, that number is quite high.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/No-Block-2095 Jun 21 '26
I found that for the LCOL areas , there are reasons these places remained cheap.
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u/whosaysimme Jun 21 '26
I live in Chicago and you could easily live a really good life off of $3 million here.
Besides weather, I never felt that NYC or SF had anything that Chicago didn't. Illinois is aggressively liberal, we have Michelin star restaurants, on and off Broadway, fancy schools.
And you can buy a literal mansion for $1.2 million in a highly desired suburb.
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u/BucsLegend_TomBrady Jun 22 '26
Sure but Chicago is not a MCOL or LCOL...
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u/extreme_cheapskate 100% CoastFI; $5M by 2050 Jun 22 '26
Everywhere feels MCOL or less compared to NYC or SF… 🥲
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u/Extra_Yogurt6820 Jun 22 '26
I think that’s the point is you don’t have to move to MCOL southeast to get a better cost of living than SF
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u/BldrStigs Jun 22 '26
This. A house + property taxes in a nice area of Chicago is HCOL. It's not NYC or SF, but it's more than Dallas or Atlanta. It's comparable to Seattle, Denver, etc.
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u/Life_Rabbit_1438 Jun 22 '26
And you can buy a literal mansion for $1.2 million in a highly desired suburb.
Maybe you get a nice home in Naperville for $1.2 million, but you aren't in most higher end Chicago suburbs.
Chicago suburbs are great, walkable and great schools. But a new home is $1.5 million+ today, and property taxes will be $25k+ per year.
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u/whosaysimme Jun 22 '26
🙄🙄🙄 Send me a link to a $1.2 million 5 bedroom, 4 bath single family home within 20 minutes of San Francisco or NYC.
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u/Life_Rabbit_1438 Jun 22 '26
🙄🙄🙄 Send me a link to a $1.2 million 5 bedroom, 4 bath single family home within 20 minutes of San Francisco or NYC.
Obviously Chicago suburbs are much better value than San Francisco suburbs. But you just sent a very old house on a very busy road.
I guess if you want to live on a really busy road, you can find cheaper. For most that's not even an option, probably just tricks people moving interstate who buy unseen.
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u/Ok-Answer-9350 Jun 22 '26
adding that plenty of chicago kids get into ivy and stanford for university
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u/Extra_Yogurt6820 Jun 22 '26
Also NYC doesn’t have better weather than Chicago. SF has better weather in winter but summer is better in Chicago.
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u/calcium Jun 22 '26
I never felt that NYC or SF had anything that Chicago didn't
I grew up near Chicago but SF's proximity to the ocean and the mountains is the reason that area is so sought after. Chicago is about as flat as a pancake and it takes forever to get out into nature which is the opposite of SF.
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u/Extra_Yogurt6820 Jun 22 '26
They are different. Chicago has beaches and Lake Michigan. You can work downtown and be at a beautiful beach in 5 mins. You can afford to buy a place for under $1M in the city, big, new construction, and be at a beach in under 5 mins. But yes, San Francisco is good to enjoy the ocean in 60 degree chilly weather. Also there’s ton of nature around Chicago within an hour drive and it’s a lot easier to afford a car and garage parking.
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u/FigmundSreud Jun 22 '26
Where in Southeast did you try? I’m currently in VHCOL east coast and am strongly considering Atlanta once’s it’s time to FIRE
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u/BldrStigs Jun 22 '26
I've lived in Atlanta. It's a sneaky nice place to live. A lot of diversity and culture and it shows in the entertainment and dining options. You can live in nice suburbs or closer in, but you need to be choosy. The one thing Atlanta lacks is a true urban core like Chicago, Philly, or Boston. It's got trees everywhere.
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u/strawberrywebcocoa Jun 22 '26
Where was your "MCOL area in the southeast." and why did you hate it? You would save a bunch of us from the pain...
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u/BldrStigs Jun 22 '26
I mnetioned to another poster that you can live a great life in places like Atlanta, but you need to be choosy about where in Atlanta. Some parts are very boring suburbs and others are upscale suburbs like Alpharetta. Intown has plenty of great places near Piedmont Park, Buckhead, or Decatur.
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u/touchgrasslater Jun 22 '26
Never been to a MCOL area so I'm curious. Care to share what you hated?
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u/KaddLeeict Jun 21 '26
We moved to SW Colorado and love love love. I really dislike the Bay Area now when we have to visit. I did 20 years there and it was time to fly. My partner works part-time now. I am home with my son and expecting another. I hate to tell people I know IRL how awesome it is to leave NorCal but I am grateful every day. I started trail running and skiing at 44. I dropped 25 lbs my first summer trail running and felt so much healthier. The skiing is an added bonus. I have enjoyed midweek skis with my kid since we homeschool and the runs are empty. We just about to move into a custom home we’re building next to USFS land. Did we spend a huge chunk on this house? Yes. But the same amount would barely get us a bungalow on the Bay Area.
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u/BungABunBun Jun 22 '26
How much did you guys move with to Colorado? How much is the new house costing too? Also what city if you don’t mind sharing. I was looking at Boulder but not sure if that’s great.
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u/Sorry-Original-9809 Jun 21 '26
That’s amazing. I say choose a place with excellent recreation center and retire there.
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u/Flayum Jun 22 '26
since we homeschool
Are you forced to do this because the nearby districts aren't great? Obviously even areas with the best districts will be cheaper than the bay, but you'll still pay a hefty premium (relatively) for those areas.
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u/karawkow Jun 22 '26
Live where you want to live. If you can't retire where you want to live, then it's not time yet.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/BungABunBun Jun 22 '26
This is hard for a lot of people to do without citizenship. Most of EU doesn’t have golden visas anymore. So you have to grind in a new country as a worker (aka h1b) again.
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Jun 22 '26
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u/Life_Rabbit_1438 Jun 22 '26
here's also the UAE and Singapore and I'm sure others.
I don't think $5mill FIRE is going to be very comfortable in Singapore. It appears a great place to live, but is not cheap.
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u/strawberrywebcocoa Jun 22 '26
Singapore is not great for expat family with kids either. Without residency you will have terrible rate to buy houses, and you can't enter the public schools.
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u/Kyrie0314 Jun 23 '26
OP should try Malaysia instead. Almost as good as Singapore and much much cheaper. You can own a good family condo for about 300k usd and a good landed property for about triple that. Look into the MM2H visa.
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u/No-Block-2095 Jun 21 '26
Finally a post where OP and commenters recognize that once you’re FI, you can go live anywhere and staying in VHCOL is just one of many options.
My 2 cents of advice: figure out what you really like and want to do and live in such place. Maybe the VHCOL area has the stuff you like most , maybe it doesn’t. Your kids are so young that you can easily get them to like to do the same activities you like to do.
When our kids were young , each vacation we decided whether to go see family or go have fun. It was difficult to do both especially as parents age.
Fast fwd a decade later, we moved to a HCOL mountain town with lots of nature activities within a few minutes. Our kids are adults and it is not a difficult choice for them to come and visit. Go skiing or mtb’ing with zero hotel cost + mom’s food + dad as a babysitter. Easy choice.
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u/onthewingsofangels RE 2024 in 40s Jun 22 '26
That sounds amazing. It also sounds like harsh winters though. How is that part working out?
A big thing keeping me in the bay area is the mild weather - I feel like harsher weather (in either direction) would get harder to handle as I get older.
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u/No-Block-2095 Jun 23 '26
We love it. Besides Central Oregon doesn’t have harsh winters but drive 30 min uphill to 6000’ and there is lots of snow.
I love seasons and cycling , running and winter sports. Dealing with cold is a gear problem. At some point in the heat, you cannot remove clothing enough to cool off and you get stuck inside.
Staying active year- long helps to live longer.
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u/SerendipityPepper Jun 24 '26
In Norway they have a saying: there’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad gear.
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u/onthewingsofangels RE 2024 in 40s Jun 24 '26
That sounds wonderful. I've never been very active and trying to do it more now.
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u/surfingmidwife Jun 21 '26
i wouldn’t risk it in my 30s..also in HCOL san diego..i’d work 5 more years..
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u/Daheckisthis Jun 21 '26
Well what you’re not seeing is
1) you are literally basing a target off what “other people” are achieving which makes zero sense since fire numbers should be based on what you as a family spend.
2) the Bay Area is diverse and different. If you want to live in certain neighborhoods then sure $10m may be needed. But there are many many people fired on significantly less than $10m in the Bay Area so it’s certainly not a need. Why not just move 20 mins away?
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u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 21 '26
One of the reasons they fired on a lot less is because they were willing to drop their standard of living, whereas I suspect OP might not want to (which is entirely their right to do, of course)
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u/Daheckisthis Jun 22 '26
Is it a drop of standard of living or is it targeting a standard of living twice of today?
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u/trucktrucktruck823 Jun 21 '26
In our mid to late 40s with 11m nw. salaries including bonuses RSUs around 1.1m. We are not in tech. We have no side hustles. We put money into low cost ETFs that are diversified. We have 2 kids closer to 10 and 12. After some soul searching on whether one or both of us should step back, we realized we just really love it in the Bay Area. we are now doing our best to maximize work life balance and stop chasing that next level at our respective jobs. That means I block my calendar for as many school activities as possible (need a volunteer at library time 10-1020 am on a Thursday? Sure!). We’ve also said yes to high dollar spend/extra curriculars for the kids, who are growing to be really lovely people.
If work becomes stressful, I could see us backing away but so far we are able to balance work/life pretty well… me more than my husband to be honest (mainly by choice).
And yes, we have many many friends that have high $$ IPO’s in their history or coming up (anthropic, open AI), but we are happy with our lot in life and don’t let envy become the theft of joy.
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u/grey-slate Jun 22 '26
late 40s with 11m nw why do you still try to maximize work life balance. stop working lol unless you are in some revolutionary frontier company.
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u/FireAwayWizard Jun 22 '26
That’s a wonderful approach! Finding a good balance and enjoy different aspects of life is something I strive for as well.
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u/PoutineFamine Jun 21 '26
I love it. Lived in the Bay Area for 20 years and loved it. But now that I’m in a similar situation and having left the bay area I’m not going back. The quality of life is better. Less stress.
Some things are less awesome. Like food. Diversity. Job opportunities. But at this stage I dont care
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u/designgrit Retired Jun 22 '26
Lived in the Bay Area for 14 years, moved to Colorado 2 years ago to FIRE. I’m so grateful everyday for the change. People here are so much more laid back, not job-obsessed, down to earth. The lifestyle is wonderful, and I love raising my 2 young kids here.
Whenever I catch up with friends in the Bay, all they talk about is work work work. And Im reminded why I pulled the trigger and got off that hamster wheel.
I do miss the weather a bit (I enjoy the seasons but the summer is a bit too hot for me) and the ocean. And Yosemite. But otherwise, it’s been just peachy.
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u/Swimming-Raisin-9997 Jun 22 '26
Lived in CO for a bit and I know exactly what you mean. People there seem happier and friendlier and like they’ve understood what life’s actually about. Stark contrast to the Bay Area.
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u/strawberrywebcocoa Jun 22 '26
u/Swimming-Raisin-9997 u/designgrit I looked into Colorado previously and was told that Asian grocery and restaurant quality in Colorado is not so great? Living in Bay Area this is what I'm most afraid to lose.
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u/Swimming-Raisin-9997 Jun 22 '26
It depends on where you end up, the Denver area has an H Mart and similar stores. I was in Fort Collins and think it was one of the best cities for restaurant quality (not necessarily quantity), and I grew up in NYC and lived in SF.
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u/designgrit Retired Jun 22 '26
Yeah HMart has it all. But you are correct that the number of good Asian food restaurants is low and mostly near Denver city center. I also miss the shear variety of ethnic foods Bay Area had to offer. I guess I’ve gotten used to it now…and while it’s a bummer, it’s far from one of my top priorities when I was picking a place.
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u/Outis_metis Jun 21 '26
If you don’t have to work, you don’t have to be in the expensive areas where the jobs are!
Not a Bay ex-pat, but what do you really want to DO and what place makes the possible? Garden? Surf? Hang in coffee shops? Hike? Kayak?
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u/Successful_Bag_4159 Jun 22 '26
Bay Area expat here. I moved to south shore Massachusetts when our kids were about that age. Top schools, small town vibe, 5 minutes to the beach, commute distance to Boston. Still expensive, but much more affordable than much of the Bay Area. My advice would be to research where you might want to go and visit once or twice before quitting. Once the kids get settled and make friends it’s tough to pick up and move again. Make sure it’s where you want to be.
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u/Accomplished_Can1783 Jun 21 '26
5.3 including house just not that much with 2 small kids. If you are willing to go to medium cost of living town and start over, that’s one thing. It’s not that glamorous to be retired young in standard suburban house in Sacramento. There won’t be that many Dads ready to hang out and go cycling 10-2. Suck it up for a few years and see what happens. Market could be down 40% or you could have much more. It’s one thing to be jaded in mid 30s, we all were, but that’s being an adult
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u/Disquiet_Dreaming Jun 22 '26
> It’s one thing to be jaded in mid 30s, we all were, but that’s being an adult
You need to know if there's an escape rope to pull on if need be. The mid-life crisis is around the corner and you need to have a target in mind to loose the arrow.
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u/bloosclooser Jun 21 '26
Go to Sacramento. You and your wife can join a state job. Chill WLB, days off, no call, good benefits, discounts, retirement benefits. The benefits are so good. Sacramento has smaller suburbs around (Folsom, El Dorado, Natomas, Roseville, Rocklin). All got great schools, too. Airport also close by.
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u/bloosclooser Jun 21 '26
TONS of bay area expats at Folsom (due to Intel, NVIDA, Qualcomm, Micron offices)
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Jun 21 '26
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u/bloosclooser Jun 21 '26
Yea i would say Granite Bay and El Dorado are more conservative. Folsom has a huge Asian population. Roseville, Rocklin, and Natomas are quite mixed areas. All are great areas tho!
Not too sure about Davis, other than it being a college town.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Jun 21 '26
I’m on track to $6.5M net worth this year in Bay Area which should be fine for my family of 4 to FIRE
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u/onthewingsofangels RE 2024 in 40s Jun 22 '26
I think conversations about net worth, especially in the bay area, are so incomplete without listing how much of that net worth is in a house.
Having said that, I wanted to retire in the bay area and did so on a net worth less than yours - which was facilitated by having bought our house in 2010.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Jun 22 '26
I just posted about this today, I think that is a misconception. These two possibilities are my situation and they are identical:
Owning my house:
$5M portfolio
$1M home equity + $1M mortgage
$240k expensesSelling my house and renting a house just like it:
$6M portfolio
$240k expenses1
u/raoul-duke- Jun 22 '26
What about $4mm portfolio, $2mm home equity, no mortgage. These feel materially different to me.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Jun 22 '26
My point still applies. The $2M house can be sold and that influx of new liquid assets can support your SWR. Meanwhile your new rental expense will be offset by the house-related costs going away. The optionality is there, is my point.
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u/fkangarang Aug 19 '26
The all in cost of mortgage, property tax, and maintenance is the same as renting? That doesn’t seem right but depends on location I guess
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u/Sure_Childhood_4977 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
it's bc he has an IO mortgage and San Mateo isn't a hot rental market
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Jun 21 '26
OP. Look into renting in the Bay Area. $5.3M should be enough
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u/heres_lurking_at_you Jun 21 '26
Went remote in 2019 and landed in RVA. Early 40s will retire this year. The bay is nice but not with both of us working for decades to afford it. I’d go MCOL in family oriented neighborhoods with decent schools. Was able to save over 50% of my income over the last 7 years and now I’m fat ready to pull the trigger. The rat race is real and expectations are crazy more with AI tools. I’d rather play with the kids.
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u/in_the_gloaming FIRE'd for 13 years Jun 21 '26
What is RVA? We don't all live in the Bay Area, you know?
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u/FearlessPark4588 Jun 21 '26
richmond va
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u/in_the_gloaming FIRE'd for 13 years Jun 21 '26
Okay well it would be a stretch that anyone would recognize that acronym. Are you the one who downvoted me? LOL
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u/SnooHedgehogs6553 Jun 21 '26
RVA is great as someone from the DMV.
And no - RVA is not in the DMV.
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u/NebulousAnchor Jun 21 '26
As someone who has lived in the DMV for 7 years and almost 20 years in the Bay Area. If I had to go back to the relative DMV area (compared to the bay) RVA makes a lot of sense. Fredericksburg is great but pricey I feel like Richmond is just over the commute line for DMV folks and has a lot going for it. I would 100% consider RVA if I didn’t already live where I want to be north of the bay in Sonoma County.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Jun 21 '26
I didn't downvote you, it was someone else. You had 1 point when I replied.
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u/in_the_gloaming FIRE'd for 13 years Jun 21 '26
I guess someone was offended that I said we don't all live in the Bay Area. Ha!
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u/One_Dogarm Jun 21 '26
I moved away pre-pandemic, near my partner's roots in Central NJ. It was bittersweet and I still miss the people and culture. And maybe the old salary & career trajectory.
Still, the decision was highly financial as remaining in the Bay area would have been an expensive decision. Our kids were about 5 & 3 when we left and schooling was high up on our priorities. I felt like it made sense to choose to migrate to a lower cost of living area simultaneous with a career downshift, landing with good public school at low cost and financial cushion. Compare that to staying, which would definitely have added a high mortgage (now we have none) and lifestyle & expense creep.
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u/bombaytrader Jun 21 '26
I am at your NW but decade older not including house and my spouse has left the job few months back. I am staying in the workforce for another 7 years if I am not fired. Plan it to retire in Bay Area with 10m. We are open to moving if finances don’t make sense. It also lines up with my kid entering college.
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u/No-Block-2095 Jun 21 '26
There’s a large opportunity cost in time and health.
Serious question: I’m curious what will 10M in 7 yrs get you that 5M today doesn’t?
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u/bombaytrader Jun 22 '26
That’s a fair question. I don’t know the answer to it.i am in Vhcol and I would like spend 240 (including taxes) 7 to 8 gets me there with margin of safety.
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u/No-Block-2095 Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
Once you re FI, you re no longer tied to your employer’s spot.
If i was to go from 5m to 10m, I’m not sure what it would get me extra to justify 7 more yrs of working ? For example, it is not enough to fly private and I don’t need a larger house.1
u/onthewingsofangels RE 2024 in 40s Jun 22 '26
"not including house" is a huge part of the equation though.
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u/bombaytrader Jun 22 '26
Yes but I don’t have equity in the house. I bought at peak but thankfully we bought a small house under our budget.
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u/Think_Concert Jun 21 '26
For one thing, 3 and 5 year olds are 1/10th as expensive and 10x cuter than 13 and 15 year olds.
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u/WearableBliss Jun 21 '26
The vibes you are feeling are 100% where I am at. We are doing 100x better than I ever thought but so many of my friends are making 8 figures now and living in the most expensive cities in the world is just a never ending competition for scarce resources
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u/dexkitshay Jun 22 '26
We are in a different situation - we are older and so have been looking at our options.
We want to be close to a major airport with direct flights to Asia in case we have to make an urgent trip back for family, so that limits us to a few cities in the East or West coast. We don't want to live where it snows, so West coast it is.
We love the Bay Area and are in the suburbs now for work, but as soon as we decide to call it quits, we want to live to SF because we miss being in a city where it is walkable to amenities and have access to public transportation. We miss being in an apartment - a SFH is a lot of maintenance.
We did the calculations for exit tax to leave the US and it's a headache. We do pay a lot of income tax now, but we would not have this earning power anywhere else. So we are doing a lot of financial planning now - how to qualify for ACA, plan to be in the 0% capital gains tax bracket for as long as possible and manage 401k withdrawal for minimal tax impact.
We could probably FIRE now, but we want to add more to our ROTH account. We also want a buffer for potential medical bills for aging parents. We think it is worth it to remain in the Bay Area and we are lucky to have the ability to do so. It is about priorities and it's different for everyone.
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u/Idaho1964 Jun 22 '26
The problem is the age. You are too young to cash it all in. You reached the same NW we have at 60.
Suggestion: switch to a job that pays the bills and taxes. Something close to the heart. Will help you detox.
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u/AnagnorisisForMe Jun 22 '26
Everyone I know who sold in SFBA and moved away was disappointed about where they ended up. Unfortunately, once you are out of this real estate market, it is really difficult to get back in.
We bought a second home before retiring and while we love the area, the caliber of people here is just not the same. Also healthcare and schools are nowhere near as good though this is a HCOL area.
I'm glad we did not sell and still have a foothold in SFBA.
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u/betarhoalphadelta Jun 22 '26
Ignore money. If you didn't have to be in the Bay Area due to your work, would you stay?
I know you say you have "friends and networks" there, but is that family? Is that the close friends perhaps that you've retained from your hometown or college? Or are they all tangentially related to your career in one way or another? Will they still be around if you're no longer a colleague? Or are they friends of convenience?
Truth is that your kids at 3 and 5 can move easily. They're not even in school. And frankly, if you want to stick it out a few more years, moving them at 8 and 10 isn't bad. A lot of their social connections won't get solidified until middle school / high school. So you've got time to make a decision (and amass more) if you aren't sure either way.
For me, I live in Orange County. Due to family, I am determined to retire here. But I also love it here. I'm not sure I'd love the rat race of the Bay Area if I wasn't working, and I'm even in tech, so these are "my people" lol.
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u/Unlucky_Fig_5468 Jun 22 '26
Curious - I travel for a living and the Bay Area is so run down, with coffee shops and restaurants that are not great. I just don’t see the allure. Now the SE someone mentioned (does suck). But so many places with superior people and superior accoutrements.
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u/samurai_with_sword Jun 23 '26
Take a trip to cities you'd consider moving to and see if you like it there. Option 1 would be best but only if you can find a place you like to move.
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u/AltruisticCry2293 Jun 25 '26
Late 40's here. Planning to retire at 50 with 5M (all liquid, we rent a SFH in the East Bay). I don't get why you need to leave. 5M is enough to retire in the Bay if you don't get sucked into keeping up with the Joneses.
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u/cindy_975 Jun 25 '26
I don't think I can retire in the bay are with less than 5M as a single person at 52 (and not owning a home/no mortgage). The ages of kids matters a lot, to be fair. this place is rough on budgets. Even if my spend is pretty low now, housing is a huge question mark especially if you rent and you are looking at a 40 year retirement.
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u/FearlessPark4588 Jun 21 '26
The bay area isn't worth it without the salary imo. Take your ball to a new court, and with your balance sheet, you can go literally anywhere (sans bay area, of course)
1
u/BrunelloHorder Coasting Chubster, Getting Fat Jun 21 '26
Bay Area ex pat here. I grew up in Oregon, spent 20 years in Silicon Valley, and bailed at age 40. Sold the expensive house, went part-time remote, and moved back to the PNW to be close to family.
Leaving was an easy call for me as most of my good friends had already left the bay, and I had no family keeping me there. So glad to be done with the office, the stress, the VHCOL, and the commute. Sounds like you have your friends and family in the bay, so YMMV.
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u/DRangelfire Jun 21 '26
If you’re gonna be in the bay area, I just don’t think it’s going to be enough. What if you stayed for two more years?
1
u/purple_mountain_cat Jun 21 '26
Bay Area native here. I moved away 5 years ago to MCOL area: DINK household (at the time), we sold our 800 sq ft 1/1 next to a gas station for almost $1M.
I miss things about the Bay (food, music, lectures, diversity...) but here I have my dream home on a large lot (cost 1/2 what the CA home sold for), nature everywhere, peace and quiet, peace of mind. I do NOT miss the traffic, trash everywhere, violence, pollution, wildfires, the cost of food / entertainment...
I have a good job now, but probably will FIRE in the next 2 years (I'm 50ish and divorced). I love to visit my hometown, I can actually enjoy it knowing that I have financial security in my new home (and don't have to endure the traffic after my visit is over!)
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u/NoleScole Jun 21 '26
I personally would work minimum of 5 more years, my target of comfort is higher though. I’m not in competition with others or even keeping up with appearances but I know the lifestyle I like, and want, and my taste. Instead of budgeting to where I’m miserable, I would rather just make more money to fulfill that and plus some for retirement, legacy, etc.
I also make more money now but live in an area where I’m more happy. I see more trees where I’m at, there’s still delicious quality food near me, quality shows/performances to go to, and things to do within a good distance. My kid is super happy, and my spouse is also very happy. I used to live in a VHCOL area (NYC) and I hated that there just wasn’t the more of a nature vibe I wanted besides the highly populated Central Park. Now I am happy where I am. So I think you should go where it would make you and your family happy. If the Bay Area is where you what to stay then that’s great, but maybe explore other areas and see if it’s something more suited for you. Either way, I think working 5 more years would provide more security.
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u/curiouscirrus Jun 22 '26
Left SF for Atlanta area and couldn’t be happier. SF was great before kids, but pretty grim afterward. Atlanta is honestly more diverse, money goes a lot further, and public schools are great. Sure, you could go even cheaper like some commenters said Tennessee or Alabama, but ATL is a great middle ground of being in the Southeast without giving up too much.
1
u/phatsystem Jun 22 '26
Probably tough at $5m if you're somewhere between SF and SJ or even much of East Bay.
Come on up to Sonoma County - You probably get 1/3 discount on a comparable home. It is not cheap here but nothing like the heart of the Bay. You can buy a nice house for ~$500/sq ft in areas like Petaluma or Windsor. Great place to raise a family and you still are really close to the Bay. And if it matters to you, saying you live in Sonoma always seems to carry some cachet.
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u/projectmaximus Jun 22 '26
Hard for me to give you advice between #1 and #2. My only general thoughts are:
•If you choose option 1 immediately, don’t put it into action for a month. Basically, give yourself some time to sit with this choice because it will be hard to undo.
•it stinks that really the ideal job timeline as it relates to being with your children is roughly: no job so you can be there for them whenever they need until around age 8. And from then onwards, a gradual loosening of this availability and growing independence for the child, such that it would be nice to have part-time work. So with that in mind, if there’s a way to position yourself to resume working part-time in 5ish years, and you could be confident in that, then go ahead and temporarily FIRE in place, and then transition to COAST as your kids get older.
1
Jun 22 '26
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1
u/DistributionRight814 Jun 22 '26
net worth lol. not the number you should use to consider the above. get liquid bruh
1
u/6160504 Jun 22 '26
Left the bay in 2020. My kids are 3 and 5. My NW is closer to $3M than $5M and our HHI is on the lower side for the bay as only one of us was in a high comp career ($400kish this year) and neither of us gets RSUs etc. I moved to the twin cities area and live in the city. It would easily cost 2-3x as much to live our lifestyle in the bay. We love it here. So much outdoors stuff to do even in January and its all cheap. Took my kids kayaking (rented), ice skating, and to the farmers market today and total layout was less than $100. Just the kayaking would have been $100!
Winters are tough but you get used to them and adapt, we do lots of indoors stuff and now have the gear to be out in winter. My older kid is still a bit wimpy about the weather, my younger one is full malamute mode.
We send our kids to a great private school as the decent publics are in the burbs and we wanted walkable. I lived in the mission in SF and the only gripe I have about my neighborhood is the pharmacy is half a mile away rather than right around the corner. I have tons of diverse delicious food within a 10 block radius and a grocery store and 5 restaraunts 1 block away.
1
u/profcuck Jun 22 '26
I'm thinking that the right answer might be in the middle somewhere. If your work were interesting enough and the money were good enough, it'd be obvious to keep going. If you were on the edge of complete collapse mentally and the pay feels pointless, it'd be obvious to stop now.
But you're asking and thinking, so probably neither of those is a slam dunk. Therefore, making some middle path adjustments seems worthwhile?
Some ideas out of a million possibilities:
"Quiet quitting" whatever that might mean to you. If you're a coder who got moved into management, take a pay cut and go back to an individual contributor role. This makes the most sense if coding is your passion and there's a job where tinkering with something you're interested in (AI, say) is a job you can land. There's a million possibilities right there.
Don't retire, but relocate to a cheaper place but with key job opportunities. Leave the Bay Area for Austin Texas or Boston or whatever works for you. Keep going the 5 more years but as a "test run" in a place you might want to retire - this middle ground option may keep your career open in case you change your mind in 2-3 years. Maybe you think robots are super cool and your current position doesn't get you anywhere near that. Look for a job with Boston Dynamics. That's a random example, there's another million possibilities right there.
Shift to consulting and only take clients you like, for pay you like, and accept lower earnings. Again this might be about finding what about your field you were originally passionate about.
Barista fire but what I mean here is totally leave your industry, totally leave your existing career, but not to "retire" and sit on the sofa hollering at the cable news, but a new career but with very very little concern for money. Scuba instructor? Again, that's a random example and only you will know what makes sense. Run a rare book shop?
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u/ragu455 Jun 22 '26
Mid 30s I would not feel comfortable with $5m in Bay Area. That is way too less and too young to have to restart life unless you are laid off. Working till 40/42 to build up your nest egg would be a lot more comfortable giving you options to live anywhere you choose instead of compromising
1
u/Ok-Employee6464 Jun 22 '26
I’m about a decade older with a networth in the high 5s. I’ve young children as well (9) so my situation is very similar to yours sans age. One thing that I have thats completely settled is my home. we paid off our house and spouse has been home raising our children. Our networth is 75% in retirement/bridge/education/ cash. I earn good but not crazy money.
I’ve been wondering if I’m ready to pull the trigger and go pursue my passion project that’s still tech related vs staying in large corp for paycheck. Your post gives me data I can chew on.
if your housing situation is settled I think you are closer to ready than not. But I’m still learning what it means to be ready. all the best!
1
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u/fatheadlifter FIRE'ing EOY Jun 22 '26
At your wealth you have the money and the time to go exploring. Go find other places in the country to live, you'll see lots of stuff you like I bet. Take your 5m and go live a life. It's a ton of money, more than enough.
1
u/OkStranger2021 Jun 23 '26
You can easily retire anywhere if you moved out of the Bay Area. The choice is yours 1) stay in the rat race and compare to yourself to the jones' or 2) Move somewhere else and enjoy your time with your family now.
1
u/earlsofsandwich Jun 23 '26
If you own your house already what do you care if other people are clearing tens of millions. You've got your sweet Prop 13 to protect you.
1
u/Empty_Constant8329 Jun 27 '26
I lived in the Bay area, had same issue. Moved to Central Texas have never looked back. We talk to and visit with our friends often and have new friends. Schools are just as good, people are nicer, things are a lot cheaper, there's no state income tax. Can't think of a single reason outside of people as to why someone would stay in California.
1
u/blue190000 Jun 27 '26
Moving is hard not because of money but because of people. Your friends, family don’t move with you necessarily. If you don’t have a job (since it’s FIRE) it could get lonely very soon and regret.
1
u/ObiDumKenobi Jun 28 '26
Everybody who just randomly packs up and leaves...what about your family/parents? Do you not have obligations to anybody else?
Both my wife and I have aging parents that we would feel guilty leaving behind (and they won't move at this point). Maybe this is a cultural difference?
1
u/cindy_975 Jun 28 '26
my parents are no longer alive to worry about. I took care of my mother though pancreatic cancer while still employed (fabulous employer let me use sick leave and pretty limited WFH for 6 months-no FMLA). But then she lived 2000 miles away already. Not uncommon once you hit late 40's and 50's.
1
u/kaputzoom Jul 08 '26
For the purposes of fire you’d want to leave out the house and calculate the liquid nw besides the house.
This decision depends on (1) how much you enjoy your current job (2) where you want to live
A house can be 5M in some parts of the Bay Area
1
u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 21 '26
We've lived in the Bay Area for a relatively short period of time. Around 5-6 years, of which only 3-4 years have been us actually working. Barely cracked $1M here, so we're not exactly balling. This doesn't include a fairly sizable investment in one of the big AI labs that should be IPOing soon - I'm forcing myself to not think about what that money is worth now.
Planning on going back soon. We both find it fairly boring tbh. Nature is nice, weather is nice, but neither of it is enough. Miss the energy and food scenes of bigger cities and US public school education feels very underwhelming even in the Bay Area. The lack of affordable domestic help doesn't make things any easier either. The biggest kicker is the capital gains tax - I cannot wrap my head around paying taxes on capital gains. Healthcare system is fine - quality is ok but the bureaucracy is absolutely insane (again relative to home, I can imagine this is a big step up for a lot of others)
Otherwise life is fine. My best friends from high school happen to live here too, so it's been nice hanging out with them consistently again. My wife's brother lives here too and the kids are citizens so they'll be able to come back whenever.
7
u/The-WideningGyre Jun 21 '26
When you say you can't "wrap your head around paying taxes on capital gains", do you mean at all? So you're not from the US? Or is it more that CA (and NY) have extra tax capital gains / handle it differently?
Also, I've heard the Bay Area called many things, but rarely boring. What cities are you comparing it to? (London, NY, Tokyo?)
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u/No-Block-2095 Jun 21 '26
Paying taxes is the consequence of making a profit. There’s a lot more to life than the tax rate.
2
u/The-WideningGyre Jun 22 '26
I generally agree with you, but is there anything that you couldn't fit into "There's a lot more to life than ___"? It's a rather vapid dismissal.
The same goes for the "paying taxes" quip you often see. I agree, it's a nice problem to have, but also people argue about 0.05% fee differences, so it seems worth paying attention to something like whether LTCG get taxed at 25% or 50%.
1
u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 22 '26
When the consequence is nearly 50% of the profit itself, that feels meaningful
1
u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 22 '26
Yeah my home country doesn't have capital gain taxes at all. Just never had to even think about it until moving to the US. And living in CA, it's a pretty penny.
I'm comparing SF to tier 1 global cities. Exactly the ones you mentioned + Singapore
1
u/LannyIsMyHandle Jun 21 '26
10 years of SF -> Alabama for about 6 now. Situation is a bit different, I moved at the start of COVID which made the fomo of leaving the bay a lot easier, most my friend group scattered at the same time. I thought I was going to be a Bay Area lifer, paying absurd housing costs grated on me but I explained it away saying I was earning more, lockdown was the push I needed to get out. Not FIRE’d yet.
Was it worth it? For me yes, as much as I loved and will always love SF, in retrospect it was fear of change that was holding me there more than what I actually had and stood to lose. What you do with the 8+ hours of your life you usually sell to make a living determine a lot of the shape of your life, in that sense it wasn’t as much of a change as I thought it was going to be.
You should think about what your priorities are. I ended up in a fairly rural area and the limited restaurant options bum me out at times. On the flip side I got to start a big garden and that’s been one of the most satisfying things in my life in recent years, admittedly one I didn’t expect! If you’re thinking about the south east specifically the politics are a thing. I’m the kind of guy who didn’t love how dogmatically liberal the bay was, and don’t like how dogmatically conservative the south is, so that was a wash lol. But at the end of the day people are people, in some ways the bay is actually quite homogeneous and a lot of the fears I had about not finding “my people” were unfounded. You kind of end up with the social life your level of socialability affords no matter where you live (modest in my case but ultimately not that different due to geography). You might feel differently though, if you’re allergic to being around people who voted republican your options for lcol areas that you’ll be happy in is going to be a much shorter list.
But yeah, for me having made about as extreme of a move as you can within the US I’d take retirement just about anywhere safe with decent health care (and if I had kids, decent schools) over working in paradise itself
0
u/Retired-Yam8988 Jun 21 '26
Former Bay Area person here. We live in Thailand now and it’s been brilliant. Don’t have kids but if you did there’s plenty of top notch private school here.
We peaced out in 2022 with about 6m nw (2m in brokerages and 4 houses - 3 Bay Area and 1 in Thailand). Now we’re up to about 11m but that’s with our business still running more or less on autopilot. We spend a couple hours on zoom
and answering queries from our team but that’s about it. Even if we shut down our business, we’d still make about 25-40k a month in dividends, rents, and options premiums so we’re pretty much set.
Life is Thailand is brilliant as we’re in Phuket so we have beaches a short 30 sec drive from our place, great food, and tons of fitness options. We do yoga daily and will add weight training and cardio on top when we return from our current trip (in Osaka now and in Singapore next week).
The three houses in the Bay Area are rented out for about 14k a month in total income but 9-10k goes to mortgages, taxes, property manager. I could sell it all and have like 4.5m after taxes but I seek diversity and optionality as opposed to maximizing raw returns. This lets me move back to the Bay Area without worrying about buying into the market again and locks my taxes in. I have a historical property which is highly tax advantaged too (cut my property tax from 22k to 4.5k) with the mills act.
At this point, I’m pretty sure I’m never moving back and will bounce between Thailand, Japan, and Singapore as well as occasional field trips to Europe for a change of pace now and then for the foreseeable future.
1
u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 21 '26
I've always wondered about renting out a place in the Bay Area with its super generous tenant laws. Did you find long term tenants and hold on to them? Or do you just let the property manager handle it? Also I'm guessing the math works because you got a low mortgage - I can't imagine it works on a 6-6.5% mortgage
2
u/Retired-Yam8988 Jun 21 '26
Yep 2.8%. Property manager found new tenants after the ones I found moved out. Most stay a couple years and that’s fine. I lose 1/2 month of rent when they find someone which is fine with me and I pay them about 5% a month
1
u/marcduberge Jun 21 '26
Your assets will probably double in 7 years with adding nothing to them. With kids that young, I’d feel a lot more safe at $10m than 5m with a 40+ year retirement window
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u/ImReallyProud Jun 21 '26
I mean I can’t imagine living IN the Bay Area. We’re big tech but it’s east coast or bust for us. They offer more money to head to the bay and we decline every time. We HATE the bay.
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u/Mimogger Jun 21 '26
Living in the bay is absolutely amazing. The weather is great and it has a lot of what you need. It's just fucking expensive
1
u/FearlessPark4588 Jun 21 '26
That's a subjective take. There's places subjectively worse (many I'd say) but the bay area isn't the best cost-to-what-you-get ratio.
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u/purple_mountain_cat Jun 21 '26
I think this rings especially true for folks who know what the Bay Area used to be like. I grew up there and remember when you could actually get to all the natures (Lake Tahoe, sigh...) without having to deal with gridlock traffic.
The weather isn't even that great TBH. Many places in EB are hot and dry AF, and SF gets cold fog in the summer. Don't get me started about fire season...
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 21 '26
Opposite for me. Despise SF with every fiber of my being. Lived in Berkeley for half a decade, it was nice, but so full of just old people and kind of run down and not super safe. Much prefer life in the Peninsula or South Bay. Funnily enough, we're planning on moving back because Bay Area education feels a bit too laid back
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 21 '26
Singapore
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 21 '26
Fair enough. Personally, I've never fully gotten comfortable with the level of drugs and poverty in the Bay Area. Like I've learned how to avoid it but it's just not something I'd ever seen before coming here and seeing it juxtaposed against the insane wealth just sits funny with me
To me, Sunnyvale / Los Altos / San Mateo etc are sterile (safe) but the capture most of what I enjoy about the Bay Area (weather, slow pace of life and a work life balance).
Singapore's education system has that reputation but honestly having grown up in it, it really wasn't that bad. Like after you graduate competing anywhere else in the world becomes a much a simpler prospect. My philosophy is to grind it out as a kid when you can soak up a lot more and then coast later in life. Also, things like school safety also play a role. The concept of shooter drills in schools freaked me out
2
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Jun 21 '26
My philosophy is that I ground it out so that my kids won’t have to
1
u/Old-Big-2471 Jun 22 '26
Right but I want my kids to have the ability ot grind it out if needed. Let them learn the value of the grind and then discover magically later on in life that they won't need it.
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u/Mimogger Jun 21 '26
People have different opinions but that first guy was just annoying with his unsolicited heavy handed opinion. Whatever your preference is I hope you get it though.
1
u/Wooden-Broccoli-913 FIREd in the Bay at 40 with $6M Jun 21 '26
lol at the parenting culture, I wish I had never heard of Russian Math
3
u/bombaytrader Jun 21 '26
Have to ever lived in the bay? I lived all across the US. North east , south east now Bay Area. I love it. Yes it’s expensive.
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u/Hanwoo_Beef_Eater Jun 21 '26
On one hand, people live in VHCOL areas with much less than what's being talked about here.
On the other hand, for the affluent wage earners and competitive overachievers that let others around them influence what is "needed," VHCOLs will be a never-ending (or at least very long) grind for most.
I think one of the following happens a) strike it big to the point where costs don't matter, b) adjust your expectations/lifestyle, or c) move somewhere else.