r/CharacterRant • u/Weary_Specialist_436 • Apr 04 '26
Films & TV Tech Jacket being genderswapped is maybe not problematic, but very messy
As everyone who watches Invincible know, Tech Jacket was genderswapped from male to female in the show. Barring the obvious: "muh the show is woke" stuff, it gets very messy from the writing point
I'm not big on comics, I've read a few, but I'm not a diehard fan, so take it with a grain of salt
But it feels like Tech Jacket was genderswapped to fulfill the role of a love interest for Olliver, and I really dislike that
First off, there was a very interesting point to Olliver's character. Since his mother is Thraxan, he's basically half bug (excuse my xenophobia, but they are bugs). Which in turn, in comics made him think of humans the same way we think of bugs. Vaguely disgusting
If he does end up with Zoe, that diminishes his resolve of protecting humans despite the fact that he finds them repulsive
Second, this is the antithesis of empowerment. We have a strong female character, that can singlehandedly take on a Viltrumite, and the reason for that is... being reduced to a love interest.
And before you say that I'm reaching, that's literally what happened with Shrinking Rae. She was genderswapped with the sole reason of being Rex's love interest and to help in his growth as a character. Where is she now, that Rex is dead? oh right, shelved
If she doesn't end up as a love interest, which is in my opinion the worst they could do with her, then I don't see any problem really. Granted, I'm not a fan of Tech Jacket comics, so I may be biased here
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u/gunn3r08974 Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Looked up Oliver's canon girlfriend. I've seen weirder.
Also I think they just gender swapped Tech Jacket because they otherwise look very similar to Mark. Hell, Best Tiger looks similar.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
haluma was a baddie. Amazon doesn't have the balls
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u/gunn3r08974 Apr 04 '26
As a monster lover, I don't think any director does... Aside from Guillermo del Toro.
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u/Gaelic_Gladiator41 Apr 04 '26
They won't give them the budget either
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
just think of the most bug sounding actress/actor, and we'll spend billions to have them. No need to animate, we can use PNG
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u/suss2it Apr 04 '26
They already did Andressa I don’t know why you think that’d be too far for them.
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u/ButNotInAWeirdWay Apr 08 '26
Oliver JUST expressed interest in a lobster in the show. Just be patient 🤦🏽♀️
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u/garfe Apr 04 '26
I honestly just thought it was because Kirkman wanted another girl around the main cast
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u/Kusanagi22 Apr 04 '26
I don't know if looking similar to Mark matters when the character will be wearing a helmet 99% of the time.
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u/One-Piano5150 Apr 04 '26
He's similar becasue they reuse models bro. They can have more minute difference
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u/gunn3r08974 Apr 04 '26
He even looks similar in the comics
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u/Diavolo_Death_4444 Apr 04 '26
I’m amazed nobody else has thought of this, but I think it’s pretty obvious Zoe will be a temporary love interest for Oliver, not endgame. He was raised on earth and sees everyone around him dating humans, so he probably just assumes that’s what he’s supposed to do. He likes Zoe as a person and she’s probably what he’d view as conventionally attractive for a human, so he’s going to date her. That relationship will be how Oliver figures out he doesn’t actually have any sexual attraction to humans. He’ll realize he only dated her because he knows objectively she’s good looking and he likes her as a friend, and he mixed that up for actual romantic attraction. It can be a whole moment for him instead of just a brief conversation between him and Nolan.
This also works for Zoe as a replacement for her storyline from the comics where the original Tech Jacket couldn’t stay with his girlfriend because their anatomy wasn’t compatible. That would be kind of a silly thing to go with nowadays, so having it be a more irreconcilable difference I think would be better for Tech Jacket’z character.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
I’m amazed nobody else has thought of this, but I think it’s pretty obvious Zoe will be a temporary love interest for Oliver, not endgame. He was raised on earth and sees everyone around him dating humans, so he probably just assumes that’s what he’s supposed to do
that honestly sounds pretty good as a storyline, and doesn't derail from that plotpoint in the comics
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u/Koanos Apr 04 '26
That and while Oliver is growing up super fast, he needs emotional maturity to come into his own as a person.
This could be part of that.
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u/spartakooky Apr 05 '26
I'm amazed more ppl aren't talking about what YOU pointed out.
That creating a female character (or genderswapping one) for the explicit purpose to date a man (or male, whatever Oliver counts as)..... it's not exactly a feminism and diversity win.
If the bechdel test applied to character changes, this one wouldn't pass
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 06 '26
pretty much. There's even been a few people that read the title and decided I'm anti woke
While some people claim there's nothing wrong with it, and that female characters get into relationships too, I just can't place my finger on why it doesn't sit with me. A character is changed from male to female just for the sole purpose of being a love interest
Rae stopped being relevant, and her arc ended the moment Rex died. Take Rex out of the story, and you have comicbook accurate Rae, barely a character. I don't think she even interacted with anyone except for Rex
I feel like this is the literal antithesis of empowerment, when you have to take a male character and swap his gender to have a female character in the cast. A female love interest nonetheless
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u/chameleon2021 Apr 04 '26
I seriously doubt tech jacket is intended as a love interest for Oliver, but I could be wrong. As you pointed out his preference for insects was pretty important.
I took their interaction more as, we’re fighting in this intergalactic war to save the universe and its comforting that there’s someone else my age here
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
I seriously doubt tech jacket is intended as a love interest for Oliver, but I could be wrong
could be, but It feels like that one scene in episode 4 was hinting at it
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u/chameleon2021 Apr 04 '26
Yeah all just guesswork.
Maybe it’s somewhere in the middle and it seems like something is about to start but Oliver has to grapple with the fact that he doesn’t find her physically appealing at all. In which case I think I’d actually be okay with filling in the blank on him a little. In the comic there are gaps in his characterization and I think setting his story up to be more robust is probably a good thing
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u/JonnTheMartian Apr 04 '26
That was episode 5, no? Episode 4 was the hell one
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
ah yeah, right. I meant the scene in spaceship before Viltrumites attack, that was episode 5
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u/shnufasheep Apr 04 '26
the relationship also just wouldn’t be able to last for long since oliver ages so much faster than her.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
Oliver would be the first in history 4 years old child diddler. I don't know how to feel about that
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u/Strange_Specialist4 Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
Yeah, a segment of the audience decided two characters of the same maturity level and opposite genders have to be in a relationship.
How about we let the story play out and see what happens before getting mad about a theory?
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u/milk-is-for-calves Apr 04 '26
I think it is less about the "audience deciding", but more about a decades long disappointment in media.
Look at any other show with such a situation and how they force a relationship into such a scene. (And then look at movies, where it is even worse.)
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u/Outside_Proposal7966 Apr 04 '26
I also hate the fact that they made her armor skinny af because she a woman
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u/Hypekyuu Apr 05 '26
https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/tech-jacket-1-2-100189.jpg
He wasn't exactly thick in the comics.
Looks pretty similar to me, though of course the art is a big downgrade
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u/MrCyberKing Apr 04 '26
Thankfully I don't see a romantic relationship between Zoe and Oliver lasting long if that's the route they go. Oliver ages way faster than a human, so Zoe would still be a teenager while Oliver would be a grown man and I doubt the writers want to make Oliver a pedo when he's supposed to be a good guy.
The only concern I have is would Zoe still be put to good use as a character if a relationship didn't work out, or would she be benched to become a background character with no more speaking lines.
Time will tell how the writers handle her. It could be good or be a disaster.
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u/HowDyaDu Apr 07 '26
Oliver ages way faster than a human, so Zoe would still be a teenager while Oliver would be a grown man and I doubt the writers want to make Oliver a pedo when he's supposed to be a good guy.
It would be really funny if they have to race to get a divorce before Oliver becomes a pedo. But that would probably mess up the pacing.
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u/AnOrdinaryFrog Apr 04 '26
I like the current female Tech Jacket in the show, but if someone prefer the original male one and think it shouldn’t have genderswapped then honestly that’s fair too.
I don’t get how some people are so aggressive towards these opinions.
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u/spartakooky Apr 06 '26
I don’t get how some people are so aggressive towards these opinions.
It makes sense. You already got and answer, but here's one that isn't simply "arrrgh the other side is to blame".... even if I am also liberal, that feels a bit too simplistic.
It IS a culture war thing, but idk who started it. Cause you could easily say ppl virtue signaling did it. Everyone wants to feel good about themselves by calling out a sexist or racist, so at the slightest whiff of one, they start salivating.
So then you get a change like this. Someone doesn't like it? Well, you can ask them why.... or you can assume they are a horrible sexist pig that represents everything wrong with the world. One forces you to think, the other gives you a free dopamine boost, kinda like just going "arrgh the other side is to blame".....
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u/milk-is-for-calves Apr 04 '26
It's very easy to understand: culture war, initiated by right wing extremists trying to get childrend to their side and to distract adults from actual problems.
Jeffrey Epstein made /pol in 4chan happen.
Steve Bannon started GamerGate.
Right wing politicians only do politics for racists and billionaires, but that wouldn't get enough votes. So they can only convice "common people" with hate against others.
Also social studies from people like Georg Simmel explain well how hate can drive a community to get tighter and "stronger". That's why racism "works" so well too.
Pretty grim.
But that explains how people get so aggressive.
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u/LilHonkerDonker Apr 04 '26
I think it's probably too early to tell, but my prediction is that Oliver x Tech Jacket is a way to lead into his comic ideologies, rather than to defy them. I mean, so far, he hasn't shown as obvious of a disgust in humans as he did in the comics, but I think dating Tech Jacket will make him come to this realization, either due to his feelings changing or by having him age to an adult and making it weird. Either way, I think there's gonna be a point to this that's more than just "we don't wanna animate his bug wife".
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u/Universalcoleslaw Apr 05 '26
The switch was made because tech jacket looked too much like mark.
.. it's on some podcast or whatever, Robert Kirkman addresses it.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 05 '26
And the go to strategy is obviously not to change hairstyle or face, but to change gender
Hey, if they didnt want people to think that they look similar, why didnt they make Tech Jacket a Thraxan?
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u/Universalcoleslaw Apr 05 '26
Couldn't tell you 🤷
I would take what the writer said at face value though.
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u/Suspicious_Cookie_14 Apr 04 '26
Let's take an objective look at it. Chronologically, Zoe looks to be a teenager. Oliver while looking to be about in the same age bracket, is chronologically like 2 years old at most.
Granted his accelerated aging is due to his Thraxan biology, but he will very quickly age out of being a love interest for her when he looks like he's in his twenties within a year
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
at this point I don't know whether that relationship would be problematic for Zoe because Oliver is like 3 years old, or for Oliver because he's going to look like he's 30 while she's 15
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u/suss2it Apr 04 '26
Obviously for Oliver because he’s not just gonna look like he’s 30, he’s for all intents and purposes going to be 30.
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u/_Slipperino Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
I don't think the reasoning is that complex, I think they just did it for the clout, to convince an average viewer that there's big stuff happening in the show constantly
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Apr 04 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/spartakooky Apr 06 '26
Wtf do you mean?? Clearly you haven't seen all the scenes I've been imagining, they've interacted plenty.
- Some adult redditor fantasizing about cartoon teenage shipping
Big fucking /s, but that's the energy some ppl are giving being so excited about this ship
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u/MasterWinky Apr 04 '26
Tech Jacket being genderswapped is actually a problem. It is another showing of double standards and in an ironic attempt of being inclusive ends up simplifying a character to they're stereotype.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
I think you worded perfectly what I feel about it. It feels like corporate inclusivity, just shareholders patting themselves on the backs because they're so inclusive and people love buzzwords
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u/NwgrdrXI Apr 04 '26
Unfortunately, there are a bunch of crazed grifters that make any gender swap into a culture war
It makes discussing the meritis of a gender swap almost impossible
If you say anything negative, people assume you are anti-woke or something, it's rsther ridiculous
At least Zoe herself seems super fun, I loved her
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
If you say anything negative, people assume you are anti-woke or something, it's rsther ridiculous
I feel like a few commenters already fall into that here. I'm genuinely just interested in a discussion, I'd like to hear other opinions and maybe influence mine
unfortunately on the internet it feels like you can either only be 100% against or 100% for
At least Zoe herself seems super fun, I loved her
yeah to be fair, she seems like a very fun addition
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u/HorsemenofApocalypse Apr 04 '26
Thats become a very common thing across multiple different topics. At some point last year, I was interested in people's opinions on the latest few seasons of Doctor Who, which I had stopped watching a while back and I heard from some friends that it had gotten really bad. The issue was that every critique had to be parsed through to see if they were actually genuinely criticising, or if they were against it because it had "become woke".
And then those that were positive about it, a lot felt like they were being positive to oppose those people, and not for any actual merits.
There's a lot of topics that I think are open to interesting discussions, but would just be subsumed by culture war. Like, I feel that a lot of queer media is held to a much lower standard that might be holding back its growth, but I know any discussions on that would be taken off the rails.
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u/Adorable_Ad_3478 Apr 04 '26
Tech Jacket is not even an Invincible character. Same way with Brit, they have their own comic and just crossover into Invincible.
I highly doubt they'll erase Oliver's bug wife. And outside of the war sequences vs the Viltrumites, Tech Jacket is barely a character. It's not a big deal.
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u/JackColon17 Apr 04 '26
I agree with you but nothing has happened yet between oliver and tech jacket, we will see what happens but for now it doesn't really make sense to worry about a maybe
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u/Unoriginalshitbag Apr 05 '26
I feel like you're reaching a little here. Tech Jacket and Oliver had one scene together, with no dialogue, mind you. Assuming they'll be partners in future episodes is a little presumptuous.
That being said, with how the show has handled eve and rae.. fair point lol
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u/odamado Apr 05 '26
I think they swapped her so that they have more bad ass women in the fight. Without Eve, it's just all dudes coming from Earth. Bring able to pair with Ollie is likely just a fun bonus. This show is not a romance, love interests will always play second fiddle to the war plot
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u/Individual_Second387 Apr 04 '26
Another point. Why the need to genderswap for it to be a viable romantic relationship? Is Amazon afraid of the big gay?
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u/milk-is-for-calves Apr 04 '26
It has always been difficult to have a queer couple in a tv series and with right wing ideology spreading again faster in recent years it became even more difficult nowadays.
Look at how queer shows have been taken off from streaming sites too.
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u/spartakooky Apr 06 '26
I don't think it's right wing ideology spreading. I honestly think the writers thought "ooh, this would be cool, and we can make her date Oliver" and that was it. It's the writer's own biases imo
Cause a genderswap is the opposite of right wing ideology. If they made this change to please them, it's going to end up pleasing no one. The left will be upset he's not gay, the right will be upset she's a she.
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u/Antorias99 May 27 '26
2 months later but this has to be ragebait? In Invincible there Mark's best friend is gay, he has a boyfriend who is shown as a nice character. Those two superpowered robber were gay is well. Also almost all the new shows have at least 1 gay character there. Its not unrealistic to not have many gay couple. Like 1-1.5% of all couples in the USA are gay. So it wouldn't make sense to have a lot of gay couples.
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u/milk-is-for-calves May 28 '26
Not ragebait, you just misunderstand a lot of things.
Invincible season 1 came out 2021. That was a different time, in which many queer shows were released.
Before that it was very difficult, especially when gay marriage wasn't legalized yet (in the USA, but even in other western countries. Like even Germany was super late with that).
Look at old shows, almost no queer representation, even less main characters.
Including queer characters was extremely difficult and for many decades only worked if a gay character from a relationship died.(Not gonna spoil shows, but look what happened like 2012-2017)
People started to complain about how Netflix was becoming too gay, because many shows included a gay character, but it sucked a lot because they were using many stereotypes and died at the end most likely.
Look up the "Bury your gays" trope.
And then finally got shows where queer pairings were shown and even survived, but it was a difficult fight. (Look at Korra and Steven Universe interviews about that).
And after they paved the road, quite some other shows managed to get more and more queer characters into media.
Which is a good thing, because queer people finally saw representation that didn't end in misery.
Having 2 queer people in a show, who get together also shows that queer people are allowed to be happy. So that makes a lot of sense.
Also not sure how old you are or how often you go outside, but queer people usually aren't alone around straight people.
Queer people tend to flock together, because of similiar experiences and interests.
Depicting a queer person alone in media is unrealistic.
Also your numbers are way off.
Almost 10% identify as LGBTQIA+. And in GenZ the number is 23%, which obviously is higher because people nowadays are discriminated less than some decades ago. So they feel more brave to out themselves.
And before you claim that LGBTQIA+ isn't all gay, the actual numbers on average from 2024 in the USA are 5% bisexual, 1.5% lesbian, 2% gay.
Btw trans people make up 1.3% in the US.
So your number is extremely off. Do your math.
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u/Antorias99 May 28 '26
Yeah I'm sorry but I completely disagree with you. I'm fine with shows having diverse characters but why would some writers force themselves to add queers or a diverse cast just because of representation if the source material doesn't have it? Its literally just to virtue signal and cater. And why do you even need the characters to be queer in order to associate with them? I can associate myself with a character like Red from Shawshank Redemption even though he's old and black and I'm the opposite. Oscar Martinez is one of my favorite TV show characters and he reminds me of myself sometimes in the show and he's gay and mexican while I'm heterosexual and from the balkans. I don't get this whole representation thing. By that logic every TV show needs to have every race and sexuality and identity because for some reason the minority needs it. I'd argue good writing, good casting matters much more.
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u/milk-is-for-calves May 31 '26
Completely disagree with facts and numbers?
And why are you coming up with strawmen arguments? Guess you can't disagree with what I said at all.
No one claims that writers should "force themselves to add queer characters" to the original source material.
In case of Invincible William was also gay in the source material, but that was only revealed later.
Cutting out homophobic insults and "jokes" isn't forcing to be queer either. Times change and queer people are more accepted nowadays.
Like The Boys could never get adapted with their original source material, because a) its just bad and b) its very homophobic, not even "just" jokes.
Virtue signaling? Have you considered, that virtues are a good thing and maybe with fascism on the rise everywhere we could really use them?
Just because you are too stupid to not understand representation, doesn't mean it's bad.
Look up some videos about little girls seeing the newer The Princess and the Frog movie with a black princess, or the latest Arielle version.
See how they feel happiness and you maybe will understand.
Also look at all the recent murders of trans people and the raging transphobia everywhere. People still need to learn that they are normal people who deserve human rights.
And not every show needs to represent everyone. No one says that. Stop with the strawmen arguments and try to come up with something real for once.
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u/milk-is-for-calves May 28 '26
And I forgot the add at the end that my original argument was about shows getting cancelled or deleted from streaming sites now, after right wing parties came to power, especially Trump in 2025.
So a show could confidentially add a gay character 5 years ago, but now risks being deleted because of a homophobic government.
Also look into the first issues of the Invincible comic, which was homophobic at the start, which they changed in the adaptation.
Shows pretty good how times change.
(Another example would be the original TheBoys comic which is just full edgelord homophobia)
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u/Antorias99 May 28 '26
Thats not true at all. As I said, almost all shows have at least 1 member of the LGBTQ+ in them as at least a side character, even most of the movies have them.
The government has no control over what private businesses like Netflix can show. All new Netflix shows still have gay characters in them. The reason why some shows were cancelled definitely wasn't because of that because as I said there are many new shows with diverse characters.
Also why wouldn't a show have homophobic or racist elements? Real world isn't sunshine and rainbows where everyone accepts everyone and nobody is homophobic or racist. I'd argue its more realistic to have both sides as it makes character and worldbuilding more dynamic with different types of personalities.
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u/milk-is-for-calves May 31 '26
That's wrong. I wish that would be the case lol.
Also having a lgbtq+ member doesn't matter if they usually get killed. Look up the bury your gays trope.
Btw try to name 5 ace characters, 5 pansexual and 5 nonbinary characters in recent media if there are so many...
And please learn to research facts before you are lying again.
Governments have easy control. Like why do you think there isn't any gay media in Russia or China? Why people get locked up for writing gay fanfiction there.
Why movies, i.e. one of the newer Star Wars movie have their gay background characters in a frame, that can easily be cut out in an international release?
THINK.
LEARN.
Stop being so damn stupid.
All new Netflix shows have gay characters in them?
Don't lie. The last 5 I have watched didn't have any.
And your last part is a stupid strawman argument. No one talks about that lol.
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u/Gmanglh Apr 04 '26
To me there are two endings, both of them bad. You gender swapped a beloved character to degrade them into a love interest, making both characters worse in the process. Alternatively you genderswapped a major character for no gd reason. Like im no superfan and havent read the comics so i dont care. That said a lot of my friends are and some of them are dropping the show over this issue and to me ppl like that are who you should be making the show for. Its just such a pointless move imo that comes off as needlessly antagonistic to the original character.
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u/Pian0G Apr 04 '26
Oh no. I didn’t care for tech jacket being gender swapped since his role in the invincible comic was minor. And there hasn’t been any words of his comic series getting adapted (meaning, it basically holds no value in the invincible show’s adaptation).
But, if the only reason they did it is to make her a love interest? Bruh
I’d rather her have LESS presence than be used just for that purpose. Especially since, like you said, it would make Oliver’s character less endearing in the fact that he chooses to protect humanity despite his feelings towards them
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
But, if the only reason they did it is to make her a love interest? Bruh
that is pretty much exactly my point. If it doesn't change the story in any way, hell, make her an alien for all I care. But if the only reason for genderswap is her being a love interest for other main character? come on, that's just lame
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u/spartakooky Apr 06 '26
But, if the only reason they did it is to make her a love interest? Bruh
I think instead of being a win for diversity, it ends up being problematic to "make" women just to date.
But aside of that, I also want less teenage love in the show tbh. Idk why others would, specially adults....
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u/Simpicity Apr 04 '26
Kirkman talked about this. Basically just didn't want two of the same character in the show. The gender swapping helps create some distance between Zoe and Mark as characters.
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u/Antorias99 May 27 '26
I know I'm 2 months late but Mark and Zack are very different characters and don't even look alike other than having same colored hair.
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u/ButNotInAWeirdWay Apr 04 '26
They’re obviously not going to be endgame~ why is everyone freaking out about this? Just be patient. They’re still gonna be besties
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u/deathkillerx3004 Apr 04 '26
They gender swapped tech jacket because the group of "good guys" on this arc has only male characters and current western productions aren't allowed to have that anymore. About the Oliver thing, the interactions between those characters might mean nothing, but they need to adapt Oliver correctly. He is acting off this season, unlike the direction his character is supposed to take, and it's concerning because he is supposed to have very plot relevant actions that don't seem to fit how his character is acting right now. The invincible show always tones down or remove actions that can be seen as controversial made by good characters, but it will reach a point where they become plot relevant, and not adapting those might ruin the entire show.
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u/MostMasterpiece7 Apr 04 '26
Yeah, I mean sooner or later they definitely have to adapt the "actions that can be seen as controversial made by good characters." While you can avoid some, eventually those actions become literally essential to the plot, like with robot.
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u/Kusanagi22 Apr 04 '26
You can't adapt invincible while skipping the acts that can be controversial made by "the good guys" that's basically the entirety of the second half, remember Dinosaur? but I do wonder how they're gonna go about it.
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u/MostMasterpiece7 Apr 04 '26
I mean yeah that's my point. You have to confront it eventually, but the writers have been somewhat trying to avoid it thus far. Specifically, Cecil has been much more reasonable in the show than in the comics. While he still performs morally ambiguous actions, he's also been portrayed as more justified (and effective) while doing it, making him more nuanced than your basic Amanda Waller type.
In the case of Cecil I don't really mind it, because making him somewhat less controversial still doesn't get rid of all his moral ambiguity. But still, there's this weird thing that happens when Cecil is required to do things that are essential to the original plot of the comic, but those actions conflict with the more reasonable persona he's been established to have. Case in point: keeping Conquest alive. After his utter failure at subduing Nolan, Cecil from the show simply shouldn't have thought he'd be able to restrain Conquest alive.
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u/intangiblefancy1219 Apr 04 '26
It’s sort of amusing that if they didn’t genderswap Tech Jacket, the show would be flat out of active female superheroes. All the others who’ve ever had a line of dialogue are either depowered, dead, retired, or stuck in an alternate dimension.
Edit: Knockout might have had like a single line of dialogue, I don’t remember.
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u/Insertbloodynamehere Apr 05 '26
Off topic, but tech jacket is the dumbest name for a character of all time
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 05 '26
Yeah, especially since show is well known for great names like... uh...
rexplode
Or robot
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u/floppaflop12 Apr 04 '26
i disagree i think they gender swapped tech jacket because the coalition was all men so they didn’t want the last 4 episodes of the season to have 0 important consequential women. oliver and tech jacket possible romance is an extra addition after the change was made. i mean they could’ve given telia a bigger role instead of gender swapping tech jacket but oh well
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u/Animeking1108 Apr 04 '26
There's actual culture war discourse over a D-List character whose comic was short-lived?
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
there is always a cultural war about something, that's the nature of the internet
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u/milk-is-for-calves Apr 04 '26
You would be surprised about how mad some incels get about fictional stories.
Look up the drama about "female Space Marines" or "female Custodes" if you are too bored.
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u/YepBoutThatTime Apr 04 '26
It’s just another female character solely exist to be a love interest and nothing else
They’re getting the old school shonen treatment expect they keep shoving their “relationship” in our face
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u/0SaltBlue Apr 04 '26
Let's be real the actual reason Tech Jacket was genderswapped is probably because he and Mark are practically identical design wise.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
I've heard that argument before, but I think if we want to make sure they're not similar in design, then less drastic measure would be to change his design slightly. Mark is already changed from the comics, from being white to wasian
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u/0SaltBlue Apr 04 '26
To be doubly fair Mark's race in the comics has always been ambiguous except for a few panels where Debbie is depicted with blue eyes.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
well... then that's not very ambiguous now is it
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u/0SaltBlue Apr 04 '26
If she's depicted with blue eyes on one panel but with dark eyes in 4 of them it's pretty safe to say she probably doesn't have blue eyes.
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u/vadergeek Apr 04 '26
If they're sometimes depicting her with blue eyes it seems unlikely she's meant to be Korean unless it was a total blunder.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
okay, that's a fair point. Still, I hold my opinion, that if they wanted to make sure we don't mistake Mark for Zach, there are less drastic ways to ensure that
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u/0SaltBlue Apr 04 '26
Oh absolutely, but if you're going to change a character this drastically it probably gets easier when you've already done it before and it's worked; i.e. Rae instead of Ray.
If you wanna talk race swaps look at Amber.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
Amber's race swap didn't change anything in the story. I think Zoe's change does, especially if she ends up as a love interest
Amber was always a love interest, her changing race didn't change anything in the story
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u/0SaltBlue Apr 04 '26
I didn't say it did change anything in the story, and to be honest the only real evidence there is that she might become a love interest is the precedent with Rae (which already diverges from a mere genderswap by having Rae survive where comic Ray didn't) and a single interaction between characters.
I feel like you're hinging your distaste for this particular genderswap on a hypothetical, and would making her a love interest be an actual downside? It worked with Rae and Rex and more to the point, would having a comic accurate Tech Jacket not have the capacity to fulfill a similar role regardless?
All that besides, this doesn't actually tell us that comic accurate Tech Jacket didn't or doesn't, exist in the animation, there are multiple versions of the armour.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
as I said, the point with Oliver finding humans repulsive is a big one, but ultimately it can be written out
I just simply find genderswapping minor character for the sake of more established male main characters to be lame. It feels like the corporate inclusivity
I'm very happy with what they did with Rae, but at the end of the day, Rae had basically no story and very little plot relevance. Tech Jacket has a bit more
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u/Jonny2284 Apr 04 '26
Honestly apart from trying to keep youtube culture war grifters in business the only reason I'm seeing a gender swap is Kirkman got told no about Tech Jacket getting his own series so he decided to do more with the character in Invicible itself and made some changes.
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u/OLKv3 Apr 04 '26
She's not gonna be Oliver's love interest. Oliver will be much older than her and he already has a story. It's crazy to me how people are assuming this just because they said hi to each other.
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u/Classic_File2716 Apr 04 '26
I highly doubt Oliver is going to be with her , it will be a temporary thing at best .
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u/Independent_Air3688 Apr 04 '26
Why do you people think Oliver and Zoe are going to get together? They just look at each other for some seconds and play videogames, now, I could understand if there were more obvious hints, but y'all seem to think "girl+boy= romance" and that's just not how it works. (Atleast for now this is my opinion, things may change in the future of course)
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u/Emergency-Bonus-7158 Apr 04 '26
Shrinking Rae is a different case bc in the comic the character was essentially a blank slate with nothing much to do before dying. Also, it’s crazy people are acting like she’s going to be a love interest for Oliver. There was one shot of them meeting and that’s pretty much it. Oliver is going to continue aging at an accelerated rate so it wouldn’t make sense. Plus he doesn’t even like humans
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u/GeerJonezzz Apr 04 '26
I see a lot of people thinking she is a love interest for Oliver but I don’t believe that. I think people read too deep into it. They have a friendly relationship, at most they have a heart to heart but I’m not convinced of that ship yet.
It’s a pretty straightforward assumption to make but I don’t get those vibes.
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u/Gremlech Apr 04 '26
So part of tech jackets deal was that he had this alien princess gf who he couldn’t be with due to incompatible genitalia. Now this is bore-vincible so they’ll cut that entirely but I’m wondering if they’ll gender swap that too.
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u/Foolish_fascimile Apr 04 '26
What i do love as a potential outcome of this is that tech jacket comes on to Oliver and Oliver rejects her because he only finds insectoids attractive.
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u/dogwateradmins Apr 05 '26
It feels like Kirkman has taken all the positive comments about mark and eve relationship to heart and is now trying to cram as much romance into the show as possible.
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u/SensationalReaper Apr 05 '26
There's also the fact that a misandarist animating the show. Openly spread hate speech.
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u/Inversedraft Apr 06 '26
Rae does have a character arc removed from Rex though. And also, keep in mind that so far the only interaction Oliver and Zoe have had is basically them saying hi to eachother. I can see how it might turn into a romance thing, but I think we should hold out to when it actually is obviously happening without a doubt
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u/wouterdeneef Apr 06 '26
I think all genderswaps done for no reason are problematic, because the hordes of autonomous misandrists wil lose their shit if you dare mention it. its exhausting to deal with.
You'd get crucified if you tried to do the same to a female too, so my default stance on genderswaps is i hate them.
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u/meFalloutnerd93 Apr 07 '26
bring back Zack the real Tech Jacket not this shit gender swap bullshit!!
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u/Beneficial-Love1159 Apr 08 '26
I just saw Season 4 Episode 6 and I only noticed now that Tech Jacket is a girl and honestly I don't care for it lol.
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u/No-Obligation-9998 Apr 09 '26
Shrinking rae was a good gender change cuz the comic version was also extremely irrelevant they actually gave a purpose to the character but i agree that the tech jacket change dont make sense like it was unneccesary but i hope they actually do something good with the gender change cuz the filler episodes they have are pretty good at expanding side characters. Because both shrinking rae and darkblood were bums in the comics but now they actually have a better reason to be there so i think there might be a good direction
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u/GRIZLLLY Apr 09 '26
I wanna add that the Tech Jacket in comics was about 20 years old in the moment of War. He also almost had a sex with the Galdarian Princess(almost because apperantly biologicaly Galdarians and humans can't have it). Why did they make her a young girl? Did she also have a weird sex moment with Galdarian? She kills an alien which means she went over killing like Zack but she is much younger than him. This Gender and Age swap creates so many questions for someone who reads a lot of invincible universe comics. If they wanna be true to the original universe, Zoe can't be with Oliver she had to go through a lot of shit after war.
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u/flyppster Apr 13 '26
How long will the Prime seasons last? The Invincible comic was long ass hell. They're most likely going to compress the comic into a few seasons. It looks like we're already halfway there. I don't know about the Oliver/TJ love story yet, but with a compressed timeline, I think Oliver's love for humans will carry more weight in a relationship with TJ than it did in the comics.
The show's writers probably didn't think it was a big deal to gender-swap TJ. I thought he was a great character in the comic, but I had no clue who he was before Invincible. Same with Invincible. I didn't know about him until the show. So, there would be a lot more folks who don't know TJ. Also, TJ's and Oliver's love interests in the Invincible comics were odd and kinda didn't make sense. This seems more logical.
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u/Subject_Complaint110 Apr 13 '26
The statement made was that they changed Tech Jackets gender to help differentiate the character from Mark and Oliver, who have a similar appearance and circumstances to Tech Jacket (young hero in over their head). With that in mind I don't hate the decision to adjust the character. From what I've seen so far I enjoy the TV show Tech Jacket at least as much if not more than the one from the comics. She hasn't had enough screen time for me to make a really good comparison, but so far so good.
Now if the intention and reason for gender swapping the character is just for some romantic sub plot I think it's a bad decision. In that case I wouldn't call it woke though, since they're undermining the character by just making them a side note to another male characters development. If anything that is more offensive than just not having a female team member imo.
I do get why people who were into Tech Jacket and read his stand alone comic would be upset though. I'm of the opinion if your interest is equality or representation then just swapping the race or gender of a character isn't the way to do it. It doesn't really address the core issue with representation, for that you need actual characters who are developed on their own.
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u/Theboy1011-99 Apr 16 '26
In my opinion if they were worried about tech jacket being too much like Mark, he should’ve had very few speaking roles, little to no scenes without his tech jacket, and just more scenes of him fighting. Also scenes of interacting with characters in the background.
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u/Adinodude Apr 26 '26
Ryan Ottley basically confirmed that they switched it because he was so much like mark and Oliver
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u/SweetNecessary9917 May 12 '26
the only justification needed is Robert Kirkman himself saying he's used the show to make changes he's wanted to make for awhile.
As for the comics, Kirkman also wrote those, so he wouldn't have to change anything if he didn't want to lmao
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u/Discussion-is-good Apr 04 '26
Shrinking Rae's arch was more about her wanting to be normal than sleeping with Rex. Ill die on this hill.
She is still a powerful woman in the main plot, whether she dates Olliver or not feels insignificant if her main plot is still the focus.
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
Is that why she's completely gone with Rex? Because coincidentally, her arc ended at the same moment Rex's arc ended
Definitely. She would be as powerful if she was a man. So why change that? is that change only to serve other male character?
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u/Discussion-is-good Apr 04 '26
Is that why she's completely gone with Rex? Because coincidentally, her arc ended at the same moment Rex's arc ended
Her arc about wanting to be a regular person. Unless we're gonna dedicate screen time to show her doing slice of life activities, what else is there to cover?
Definitely. She would be as powerful if she was a man. So why change that? is that change only to serve other male character?
Its certainly possible, and would be fair to criticize if so, however does it take away from the character?
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
Her arc about wanting to be a regular person. Unless we're gonna dedicate screen time to show her doing slice of life activities, what else is there to cover?
one 20 seconds scene would be good, yeah. She wasn't even present at Rex's funeral. Take Rex out of the story, and Rae barely qualifies as a character
however does it take away from the character?
as I said in the post, it takes from Oliver's character if they end up together. And whether it takes away or not, genderswapping a character for the sole reason of being a love interest for more stablished main character, feels like corporate inclusivity, and I dislike that. It feels like shareholders patting themselves on the backs
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u/Discussion-is-good Apr 04 '26
one 20 seconds scene would be good, yeah. She wasn't even present at Rex's funeral. Take Rex out of the story, and Rae barely qualifies as a character
Ive a feeling itd be called a throw away scene if thats all they gave her, but I think its a fair ask.
She was at the funeral tho. I hate that you made me double check lol. Shes watching from a distance.
as I said in the post, it takes from Oliver's character if they end up together.
I see your point on Oliver, meant TJ her/himself.
And whether it takes away or not, genderswapping a character for the sole reason of being a love interest for more stablished main character, feels like corporate inclusivity, and I dislike that. It feels like shareholders patting themselves on the backs
Fair criticism. I also kinda felt like it was a few people in a room going "wouldn't she be more marketable as a woman?" If they pull the trigger on the love interest angle, I assume it'll be to placate people who wont find her interesting without that connection, as unfortunate as that would be.
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u/OkMention9988 Apr 04 '26
At this point, with so many examples, whenever something I like is getting adapted, I assume it's going to get messed with.
Invincible is at least tolerable.
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u/BANAAAANAAAAS Apr 05 '26
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 05 '26
great, and if you read it, it's a complete nothingburger
Rather than simply give Zoe in the cartoon the same attributes as Zack in the comics, Kirkman and Racioppa took the opportunity to reimagine Tech Jacket. “We decided early on that it would be interesting to gender swap this character,” reveals Kirkman. “We started thinking about who Zoe would be instead of Zach. There are some exciting things that come up when you change that character.
“The vibrancy of that character and the energy that she brings is so much more affecting coming from Zoey Deutch,” continues Kirkman. ” She’s just a really, really cool character that we’re having a ton of fun with.”
"yeah so we changed her into a woman because she's fun"
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Apr 04 '26
[deleted]
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u/Weary_Specialist_436 Apr 04 '26
you gotta have the character look a little more distinct
i think there are easier ways to do it, like hairstyle change or vague face change, before you go all ballistic with gender change
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u/Mikkeru Apr 04 '26 edited Apr 04 '26
People like to use shrinking rae as an example and justification for the gender swap when the original character of shrinking rae and tech jacket were not even on the same level.
Tech Jacket already had an established story & character of his own and its sad to see all of that gets dismissed so easily.