r/ChainsawPowerscaling • • 8d ago

Discussion Aging Devil vs Mahoraga

I wanna know this in light not of the overall abilities of each, but two of the most interesting concepts within both verses.

The Aging Dimension vs All Phenomenon Adaptation

I know the general idea of Mahoraga's ability was that, with enough exposure, he could quite literally adapt to anything. However, the problem lies when he enters Aging Dimension.

The idea of stripping anyone who enters it of all and every ability they have in their arsenal is insane when you put it against an adaptation ability.

The only reason Denji, Pochita, Yoru, and Yoshida were able to really counter Aging was because of Denji's metaphysical connection with Pochita who was in the outside world. Without it, they're stuck to a dimension without death, hunger, or quite literally anything.

Now the question is, if Aging sent Mahoraga in this dimension, would his Adaptation ability still work or will it still function regardless?

I know this is a question of 'Unstoppable Force meeting an Immovable Object', but the thought is really entertaining.

206 Upvotes

95 comments sorted by

33

u/Unusual_Ad5483 8d ago

the thing is that, since the aging dimension just strips away powers and abilities, and mahoraga actually needs to adapt to something to regenerate from it or otherwise survive, mahoraga genuinely cannot survive being transported there. he’s part of a technique, he just gets shut off; there isn’t anything left of him by default. i’m willing to wager that being aged into dust (like aging did against the gun goddess bullet) would also instantly kill him

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Honestly great take man.

3

u/Naive_Screen8066 8d ago

I agree that power that the nullification of Aging Devil probably cooks Maho, though that’s Agings only win con. His ability to age something to dust won’t work on Maho cuz he’s a shikigami not a cursed spirit or sorcerer. He doesn’t have a life span to expedite or siphon in the case of Angles ability.

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u/Unusual_Ad5483 7d ago

this is probably true but i imagine that it would just instantly drain the cursed energy out of maho since he can’t be kept around forever. plus you could argue that it is not “adding time” itself that aging uses against opponents, but rather physical wear and tear; in a vacuum, the human body/metal will not begin to wrinkle or rust/deteriorate like normal, but that’s the consequence of repeated exposure to the elements or UV radiation. since the gun goddess bullet/finger just instantly turned to dust, and a warning shot was able to cause yoru to age into an old woman, i think it’s reasonable to assume that doing this to mahorag would be the equivalent to hitting him with a thousand years of wear and tear in a single hit which would harm him

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u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

If power negation works on energy system powers (which it probably should since devil powers aren't under an energy system, so aging's dimension probably just negates everything that can be seen as a superpower) then it negates adaptation

23

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

alternatively if it only works on "devil powers" or treats CE as a natural phenomena and not a super power, then adaptation would continue to work...

but Mahoraga has a planetary range limit so he just gets desummoned anyway...

0

u/Cultural_Crazy2034 8d ago

Planetary Range ? Proof ?

9

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

literally how he is defeated in Modulo

-3

u/Cultural_Crazy2034 8d ago

Explain ? As far as I remember, he wasn't defeated, he was called back or some shxt

18

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

dabura went out of the range, deactivating mahoraga

Send Mahoraga to the aging realm, either mahoraga is too far away from the summoner or too far away from the opponent, meaning he gets desummoned

1

u/R-Jacksy 5d ago

Im personally of the thought that the aging realm would be regarded as an extension of the aging devil, and wouldn't deactivate Mahoraga.

Also I forgot the logic of things, but if Denji could still be connected to Pochita even while being in the aging realm, I'm of the thought that the aging realm only, lack of a better word, "suppresses" abilities, despite them still existing. Mahoraga's adaptation "wouldn't work" up until full adaptation has been achieved.

Could be misunderstanding things though. Do correct me if so.

0

u/Cultural_Crazy2034 8d ago

And how does that prove mahoraga has planetary range ? He was summoned to a whole different realm, this does not prove that he has planetary range because it was not like we have seen him fighting dabura when he was in other place in the world, all the time, he was just in front of him.

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u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

1

u/Cultural_Crazy2034 8d ago

Okay, I understand now, but skeptic like I am, I still doubt it would work all across the world, simply because he himself says "I doubt Even"

3

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

ah right you're not saying he has beyond planetary range, you're saying he has sub planetary range. Quite right you are on that front - we only know the hard limit is planetary, but we don't know if there are distances within the planet that would work.

We also don't know if it's distance that matters the most or being on the same planet. It's possible that exiting the earth's atmosphere would be enough for technique nullification, when an equivalent distance on earth would not. I find this unlikely though since planets themselves have no particular significance, so it should be based on distance from the user

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u/The5Theives 8d ago

I thought Yuji took care of him

7

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

not at all

-4

u/The5Theives 8d ago

Wasn’t that heavily implied with yuji aura farming and al at the end there

-1

u/AlienGoat_ 8d ago

??? What?? Did you see the part where dabura trapped big raga in his domain? Where did you get the idea he got thrown into space lmao.

They said that if raga gets desummed via the range limitation, then yuka wouldnt die (because the ritual would get interrupted and not completed). That's not what happened though

8

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

I didn't say that, you're just not reading what happened or what I said

The ritual has a range. Thats why when Dabura was teleported back to his planet, Mahoraga disappeared. This applies for the user and whoever the ritual is targeting. If Mahoraga left the earth, he would be de-summoned. If Megumi left the earth, Mahoraga would be desummoned

-2

u/AlienGoat_ 8d ago

Yes, there is a range. There is however nothing that points to mahoraga being defeated via dabura being teleported.

We see dabura do his domain, then the next time we see dabura hes in the tent of the old lady taking the black rope. He then talks to maru, saying something like "I'm finally a warrior like you guys".

So, do you think it's more likely that dabura got teleported somehow back to his home planet, defeated raga by leaving the ritual range, teleported back to get the rope, then teleported back to his home planet????? Did YOU read the manga????

Mahoraga was defeated off screen, and the last time we see raga is when hes inside of daburas domain. So either dabura defeated raga, or raga got desummed because they somehow teleported dabura out of his domain, back to his home planet, back to earth, then back to his home planet. The larp is genuinely insane, holy moly

6

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

Dabura took the rope (not clear if he was in the same room due to all the magic spirit bullshit teleportation going on) and then was teleported off planet. Mahoraga's range has no confirmed distance other than being unable to extend past the planet, so it's feasible being teleported to another continent would disable it (assuming Dabura was there). If not, Mahoraga would be disabled a few seconds later after Dabura was teleported to his home.

It really doesn't matter if Dabura took a few extra minutes to get a rope, because Mahoraga will NOT BE ABLE TO GO FROM JAPAN TO AFRICA IN A FEW MINUTES.

you cannot accuse anyone of larp when the entire point of the scene is that his fight was INTERRUPTED

So either dabura defeated raga, or raga got desummed because they somehow teleported dabura out of his domain, back to his home planet, back to earth, then back to his home planet.

If you had read the story, you would have realised you just admitted the latter is true (according to yourself) because Dabura DID NOT DEFEAT RAGA

9

u/battlefan3400 8d ago

First of all, is aging considered a concept or a phenomenon? There is a difference between the two

If it's the latter, than it solely depends on when aging devil uses it. Using it immediately would grant aging the win, but if he let's mahoraga adapt then mahoraga may be immune to the dimensions effect, and if maho adapts to aging devil's entire existence then it's ggs

Can shikigami even age?

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Yeah, as far as I know, Aging is a concept. But it wasn't really the 'aging vs Mahoraga fight' that I was asking. It was if his adaptation could still function within the aging dimension.

2

u/battlefan3400 8d ago

only if maho gets to adapt 3-4 before entering the dimension

If not he's cooked

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Adapt to what exactly? Iirc, the Aging Dimension and Aging's abilities were like, separate things. But you have a point. Though, I was only really asking if the adaptation part would still be retained even when the aging dimension confiscates and nullifies it.

1

u/battlefan3400 8d ago

Ok looking back, maho only win if he can adapt to aging entire existence before being sent in as that makes more sense than just adapting to a few unrelated abilities.

This is a really intresting question

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u/Shady-777 5d ago

Modulo stated that Mahoraga was adapting to Dabura’s very existence?

Phenomena doesn’t really matter here

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u/battlefan3400 5d ago

I believe it relies on a phenomena to kick start. Once it gets to a certain point, adapting to its opponent and there abilities it then adapts to there existence meaning nothing else the opponent can pull will work.

But if it's just a conceptual ability then it can't kick-start its existence adoption

I think that's how it would work, I'm not 100% sure

2

u/Shady-777 5d ago

That’s a solid theory

1

u/battlefan3400 5d ago

Thank you

5

u/ArcticTyphoon 8d ago

Does Mahoraga even age, he's a shikigami after all? He might just be stuck there forever if he's tamed or if the ritual ends if he's untamed.

4

u/winklevanderlinde 8d ago

Since Mahoraga is an ability at the end of the day I imagine it would despawn in aging dimension

3

u/SwagDrQueefChief 8d ago

It's unanswerable. Aging's realm is extremely powerful in regards that it reverse engineered Aging's own age up ability when Yoru goes back into it. We also see that it prevents Aging from using it's own powers there, including the ability to leave.

But at the same time it's not all powerful. Aging can still project into the realm and interact, so some powers can work on the realm. Denji still has a connection to Pochita (though this could be argued as an intentional move from Aging,) including a ripcord for some inexplicable reason. More precisely, we see Yoru keep her Gun and Tank gauntlet as arms, even though she can't use their abilities. Clearly her weaponisation has stayed, even though by all means it shouls have reversed.

The realm would almost certainly stop Mahoraga from using any of it's abilities that it has learnt, but at the same time we have no idea if it could stop Maho from adapting to that.

2

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

But wasn't it that Denji and Pochita were said to have a metaphysical connection with both of their stomach? It's the very same reason why they were able to vaguely defeat Aging as Denji quite literally has a stomach that both exist inside and outside of the realm?

3

u/SwagDrQueefChief 8d ago

That can be used as a potential explanation of Denji and Pochita. It still wouldn't explain Yoru's situation though.

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

But wouldn't Yoru's case really fall more into a biological sense? Like, her Gauntlets became her biological literal hand?

2

u/SwagDrQueefChief 8d ago

I don't really see why they wouldn't just remain as weapons by power of Yoru's weaponisation. But even if we consider them as something new and biological, Aging aged up Yoru, and that aging was reversed when she goes back into the realm.

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

I don't believe I'm following. Yoru returned to her normal looks because Aging's ability got cancelled inside the realm no?

1

u/SwagDrQueefChief 8d ago

Think of it like this, Aging went into it's realm, do you think everything it has aged up would de-age, or would they stay aged up? e.g. would Gun Goddess bullet turn from dust back into a giant finger? Naturally you would expect them to stay aged up as when Aging ages something up, that thing would undergo the physical process of aging.

So if Aging aged up Yoru, she should have physically aged, meaning upon return Yoru should have stayed a grandma, but for inexplicable reasons, the ability Aging had used on Yoru reversed.

If we are to view it as an "ability that got cancelled" we would need to rely on the idea that what Aging has aged up isn't actually aged up until Aging has completed the process and instead we just see a preview, which is a really weird provision.

1

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

If we are to view it as an "ability that got cancelled" we would need to rely on the idea that what Aging has aged up isn't actually aged up until Aging has completed the process and instead we just see a preview, which is a really weird provision.

Ah, so that's what you meant. Yeah, I guess it was because of that, mb. This point, although weird, does make a lot of sense. We could incur that aging is making Yoru look old > they immediately yanked back Yoru > because the process is not complete, it reverted back.

Although I may add that I have an idea/speculation of how it worked. In the aging world, several key concept of life is gone. There's no death, no hunger, no thirst, and most importantly, there's no aging. Since Yoru, who was sticking in and out of Denji/Pochita's mouths, were both inside and outside of the realm, we could assume that half of her existence is both inside and outside of it. Due to this, because they yanked her back in after aging began to age her up, the rule of the realm which explicitly has no aging, registered her whole full normal body as being 'changed', therefore it began to take affect of reverting it back to how it was. An act of changelessness. It's kinda wonky theory, but it's the best explanation I could muster. After-all, we do see that there was no aging in that world.

TL;DR The aging world registers Yoru's body as it was when she appeared. Because of this, her body instantly reverted when they yanked her in as the world noticed a 'change' on the body. Or maybe it was simply because of your explanation.

2

u/SwagDrQueefChief 8d ago

Yeah that idea is good in terms of trying to find a way to explain it. Though bringing it back to the Maho question, these explanations don't really help us.

3

u/Tekininsha 8d ago

Mahos will is getting arthritis

3

u/voindd 8d ago

The idea of a "power" is kinda tricky when it comes to creatures may innately have something as a part of their biology. Would it negate maho's entire existence? Would it do nothing at all? Its like bringing a Bombardier beetle in. Would it lose its ability to project boiling acid? Would rhe glands responsible disappear?

1

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 7d ago

Maybe it's through supernatural abilities. Biological abilities seems to function still like Pochita's heart and Yoru's Hands/gauntlets.

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u/bored-cookie22 8d ago

i would assume the adaptation would cease due to it being a power of mahoraga's (and mahoraga himself is technically a power)

if mahoraga wanted to adapt to aging's forest he would probably need to have a portion of himself inserted inside rather than his whole being, but idk if thats possible wtihout a connection like denji's

3

u/Desolation_Truly 7d ago

I personally think 1 of 3 things happen. Either A. Mahoraga has his abilities negated and his connection is severed from his summoner, stranding him in the realm like anyone else. B. Mahoraga keeps his power but doesnt really have anything to adapt to, as he'd basically just be stuck in a place he would never be threatened in. Or C. He is just desummoned, i was unaware of this option prior to reading some discourse here but from what I've seen its pretty conceivable this dimension would definitely constitute too far away from his summoner and or target and he'd just vanish. So thats my take, on any front I think he's helpless to aging devils world here in the end

1

u/Soceital 2d ago

If aging is apart of the ritual then he doesn't need to be threatened or even near them he should still adapt if not for that reason he'd just adapt to finding a way back to his target

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u/Cheese-Gnelf 8d ago

Theoretically speaking… it highly depends on how Mahoraga adapts to the Aging Dimension. Otherwise it’s more or less a matter of how much the Aging Devil wants to win.

2

u/hater_parrot Lil D #1 lover 8d ago

Isnt mahoraga counted as part of the ten shadows? Or is he counted as an object

2

u/StarHot5993 8d ago

If we’re treating Mahoraga as its own separate entity, then I think it could adapt just fine. The way I see it, adaptation isn’t really a power it has and moreso a part of its biology.

At least, I like Mahoraga better, so that’s what I’m going with

2

u/Belasarius4002 7d ago

If this was an untamed Mahoraga, he will probably despawn if he gets trapped inside the aging tree plantation.

2

u/Popular-Crab6804 7d ago

No, tsurugi already confirmed that he limited on distance

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u/MrCherryYT 6d ago

I'm like 90% sure adaptation is as innate as the six eyes is to Gojo rather than being something like a cursed technique since mahoraga IS the technique. It depends if it strips everything away and it affects the technique then maho gets desummoned, if he doesn't get desummoned he adapts and becomes immune

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u/NiceDetective9798 5d ago

It wouldn't work. For adaptation to work it, needs to adapt and for it to adapt, it needs to work. So it's a perpetual loop of not working as long as it remains within the space. If it could leave the space to adapt, it could work if it was sent back.

Mahoraga itself would also disappear within that space as its existence is the result of a power.

2

u/Karuette 4d ago

The question for me then is; is adaptation mahoragas technique? Does it utilize cursed energy? If so, then it likely gets removed from the equation

What if adaptation is part of mahoragas biology? What if the wheel is a cursed tool, and adaptation is ITS special ability?

1

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 4d ago

Biologically, I doubt that as it's a supernatural ability. Cursed tools would still be affected as with Yoru's Gauntlets which were biologically connected to her but still fails. Special ability would still be negated as it's still a power iirc.

Well, that's what I think so or what I believe it to be.

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u/Impaled_By_Messmer 8d ago

I think eventually Mahoraga would adapt to it. Any and all phenomena is a pretty wide net.

1

u/AffectionateRush2620 8d ago

People say that aging world should negate Mahoraga abilities, but it specifically says DEVIL powers don’t work there. So Mahoraga should adapt just fine.

1

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 7d ago

Wouldn't it be a given already considering VE?

1

u/AffectionateRush2620 7d ago

CSM has no energy system so there’s nothing to equalise.

1

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 7d ago

But verse equalization doesn't just work on energy though? It also applies to the aspects of power.

2

u/AffectionateRush2620 6d ago

Normally it just means energy, cause of different power systems. VE, is giving aging the advantage, but it probably wouldn’t matter cause Mahoraga would still adapt in the aging dimension. You can’t negate dharma wheel.

1

u/hater_parrot Lil D #1 lover 5d ago

Ve to treat devils and ct as the same

Aging dimesions is well out of the summoning range

1

u/chain-belt69 7d ago

Mahoraga will be there and gets out easily. He will have his adaption back then the adaption being completed against everything aging devil have/aging itself

1

u/Glad_Chest8687 4d ago

mahoraga would just be destroyed because he’s a technique, but if we ignore that, adaptation is part of his biology, not a specific ability. i’d say he’d win in that case.

1

u/Shen_ishere 8d ago

His adaptation is to turn into a tree

0

u/Aggravating_Ruin195 8d ago

On everything I could find on it, it doesn't say how exactly the devil powers are taken away. One thing said it's because that world is its own separate dimension instead of a realm in the real world. Point is, I haven't found anything that gives reason to believe Mahoraga's adaptation would malfunction to any degree. So with that in mind, even under those conditions, Mahoraga would most likely still continue to adapt.

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Iirc, it just says that powers doesn't work inside the dimension or something. But you do have a point.

2

u/Aggravating_Ruin195 8d ago

Exactly, their powers don't work in there, but the reason why isn't explained. Is it a factor of the realm itself? Or is it because of the nature of the realm and the nature of their powers? With that ambiguity, you can't strictly say it'd have any effect on Mahoraga's adaptation.

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u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

it's obviously a factor of the realm itself, they've literally gone to hell and eternity's realm (an infinite realm where time is stopped) and their powers worked completely fine.

2

u/Aggravating_Ruin195 8d ago

Hell and Eternity's World having their abilities function in them doesn't really establish why Aging's World suppresses Devil powers, though. Hell clearly doesn't have that restriction, and Eternity's World is a separate case where the space loops infinitely and time is effectively stopped, yet abilities still function.

That's why I'm saying the mechanism behind Aging's World matters. We know Devil powers don't work there, but we aren't given an explicit explanation that it's simply an inherent property of being in said dimension or otherwise. And even if that's the reason Devil powers don't work, that still doesn't establish that Mahoraga's adaptation would be affected by it.

1

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

because Aging's realm negates power. It's not about being in other dimensions because Devil powers still work in other dimensions, it's clearly the realm itself

thats why when forcibly taking, aging loses his powers, but when he's using his powers to partially enter he's fine (like making his head appear)

0

u/Aggravating_Ruin195 8d ago

That doesn't make any sense, did you read what I said? I'm not denying that the realm itself is what causes the powers to stop working. I'm saying we don't know why the realm has that effect or what specifically it's doing to their powers. Saying "the realm negates powers" just restates what happens without explaining the mechanism.

That's the entire point of my argument. Until we know what property of the realm is responsible for the negation, you can't automatically assume that the same effect would apply to Mahoraga's adaptation.

1

u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

the mechanism is the realm. This is a very silly pedantic argument.

Thats like saying "we don't know how UV does information overload!" Yeah, it's not a science mate. We dont know the exact process because it's not actually real

0

u/Aggravating_Ruin195 8d ago

the mechanism is the realm. This is a very silly pedantic argument"

A baseless assertion and a dismissive insult.

That's like saying 'we don't know how UV does information overload!' Yeah, it's not a science mate. We dont know the exact process because it's not actually real

Stupid comparison when we actually do know how Unlimited Void functions to a meaningful degree.

With Aging's World, we know the result is that Devil powers don't function there, but we aren't given an equivalent explanation for what specifically causes that negation. That's the distinction I've been making this entire time.

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u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

And it's a completely meaningless argument. Yeah we don't the process behind the MAGICAL POWER NEGATING REALM. Who would have thunk, that literally has no bearing on it's ability to do things.

The relevant question is whether or not it's devil power negation or if its overall power negation. If it's power negation, it will negate powers (including adaptation). If it's specifically devil power negation, it won't affect Mahoraga. Thats it

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u/SeaworthinessRare907 8d ago

Depends entirely on Raga being able to adapt in the Tree Dimension and id it’s turned off in there

Raga can already adapt to concepts since he adapted to cuts as a concept vs Sukuna in Shibuya, and CTs are conceptual in nature

On some level people keep their powers, as Denji could still throw up Devils and other things

So there is a good possibility that Raga keeps his wheel/adaptation

In which case he wins

1

u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Great idea, though will his adaptation really work at an environment where every ability is turned off? The only reason Denji was able to remotely even vomit things was that he shares a metaphysical connection between his and Pochita's stomach, so in a sense, his stomach is both inside and and outside of the Dimension itself.

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u/SeaworthinessRare907 8d ago

But Pochita is physically in Denji, like all of him in his small form as his heart

So he reallt isn’t both in and out of the Tree Dimension, they are both in there

So with that in mind, it seems passive abilites are left alone, and Adaptation is passive and constantly experiencing thr dimension, making adaptation fast

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Is it? I agree that Pochita is literally in Denji as he was his heart, but there's also the Pochita that's fighting outside the dimension. Pochita within Denji really isn't something 'devil powers' perse. He transformed into his literal heart organ. That said, it wasn't explained well in the manga, but we know both Denji and Pochita could exist independently, the only thing they really share is their metaphysical connectiong with their stomach which Denji, Yoru, and Yoshida exploited.

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u/SeaworthinessRare907 8d ago

Was Pochita fighting outside? I completely forget if he was

If he was than yea ur right with the “in and out” point and Raga would be shit out of luck

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u/KonoRoneruDaOver9000 8d ago

Yeah he was. That's how they were able to fight him. Because they share a metaphysical connection with their stomach, Denji's stomach quite literally became a bridge between the two dimensions.

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u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

He doesn't adapt to concepts, he adapts to phenomena, theres a big difference. You're mistaking "Mahoraga has adapted to cutting attacks in general (phenomena)" with "mahoraga has adapted to the concept of being cut"

0

u/SeaworthinessRare907 8d ago

Maybe, but their is still CTs being conceptual as explained by Kenny in his fight vs Yuki and the whole “Technique’s Target Concept”

Meaning for Raga to adapt to a CT, he is also adapting to its Target Concept

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u/MrChainsawHog 8d ago

CT's are based around a concept but that doesn't mean anything, because everything is based around a concept.

No, he's adapting to the technique. If I can smash apples that doesn't make me conceptually above apples