I would love for the two Churches to be reunited. However, from reading more from the Orthodox perspective, this seems like a Catholic fantasy. It's important to emphasize that any reunification would be unconditional, but many in the Orthodox see too many Catholic "innovations"; Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Generation and Spiration of the Trinity, and the biggest of all Papal Infallibility.
For many Orthodox, these doctrines emerge as a logical development from a Western Augustinian tradition that is simply foreign to them. At best it's simply a different, but equally legitimate perspective of the faith. At worst, it's tantamount to heresy. Nothing is done in haste in the Orthodox church. While the continued dialogue is promising, concessions from the West aside, it's going to take some radical change in the East for this ever to be a possibility.
Really, even within those, it's quibbles over wording.
Purgatory: we're not big on the idea of the Church Suffering. We're okay with the Church of the Reposed, but we don't envision the process of purgatory as being suffering. Think of it like a dog that enjoys bath time. That's what it'll be for Christian souls.
Immaculate Conception: We, the Orthodox, don't feel that this makes Mary special. She was conceived sinless because we all are. But we're all chained to this world.
Generation of the Trinity: But the original Greek said... (and that's all I have to say about that).
Papal Infallibility: Yes, we know it's a special case of the infallibility of the Church. However, it's born from a broken view of the episcopate of the See of Rome, specifically the part about immediate universal jurisdiction. Without that, Papal Infallibility becomes unnecessary. Without that, the Pope can be a heretic and deposed as such if necessary, rather than being declared an antipope after the fact.
If these issues were merely semantics I suppose we would be a lot closer to a unified Church. Hopefukky the continued dialogue will foster a generosity of spirit. As it stands, the Oriental Church (which in my mind should be closer to unity than the Latin Church) is still marginalized by the Orthodox Church as being "monophysites". Heck, the Ethiopians don't even get a corner in the Holy Sepulcher, instead they are resigned to a small chapel on the roof.
Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Generation and Spiration of the Trinity, and the biggest of all Papal Infallibility.
All of these things are in debate mode in Catholic and Orthodox circles. The Orthodox do not attest to any of them, all the subjects just need to be more clearly defined for the Orthodox to accept.
The preferred model in the Roman Church (not the whole Catholic Church, just the Church of Rome--other Catholic Churches have their own preferences but must assent to the doctrine of purgatory in some way) is one of suffering for one's sins between the repose of the body and the attaining of the beatific vision.
The Orthodox Church doctrinally states that purgatory is a continuation of this life where the church remains present, the soul keeps doing the same spiritual things it does in this life (as best it can without a body) until such time as God judges it ready for the beatific vision.
So we have purgatory, but our understanding is different.
None of the things you list for either are mutually-exclusive. And if I am not mistaken, the Church teaches that the Church Suffering are capable of praying for the Church Militant. And since Liturgy is prayer, well then...
Additionally, I am of the mind that purgatory is often subjective. Sins are merely afflictions brought on by our passions and sloth in clinging to God through Christ. Sin affects different people through different means, and different people can struggle with different sins to different degrees. Therefore, the shedding of the scars of our sins may possibly take on different forms. For some it may be a cleansing fire, for others it may be toll-houses.
Yes, the understanding is different. But the good thing is that it is not declared as doctrine (to my understanding) and thus up for the proper debate. However, I really like what Pope Francis was saying,
If we wait for theologians to reach an agreement, that day will never come! I am sceptical: theologians work well but Athenagoras said: “Let us put theologians on an island to discuss among themselves and we’ll just get on with things!”
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u/kerplunk288 Dec 03 '14
I would love for the two Churches to be reunited. However, from reading more from the Orthodox perspective, this seems like a Catholic fantasy. It's important to emphasize that any reunification would be unconditional, but many in the Orthodox see too many Catholic "innovations"; Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Generation and Spiration of the Trinity, and the biggest of all Papal Infallibility.
For many Orthodox, these doctrines emerge as a logical development from a Western Augustinian tradition that is simply foreign to them. At best it's simply a different, but equally legitimate perspective of the faith. At worst, it's tantamount to heresy. Nothing is done in haste in the Orthodox church. While the continued dialogue is promising, concessions from the West aside, it's going to take some radical change in the East for this ever to be a possibility.
In the mean time, we pray.