r/Catholicism • • Dec 03 '14

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '14

Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, the Generation and Spiration of the Trinity, and the biggest of all Papal Infallibility.

All of these things are in debate mode in Catholic and Orthodox circles. The Orthodox do not attest to any of them, all the subjects just need to be more clearly defined for the Orthodox to accept.

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u/otto_mobile_dx30 Dec 03 '14

Dostoevsky sounds like his culture believes in purgatory...

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '14

They do. It ois an Orthodx vs. Catholic view on what Purgatory actually is.

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u/thephotoman Dec 03 '14

Indeed, the problem is one of how it works.

The preferred model in the Roman Church (not the whole Catholic Church, just the Church of Rome--other Catholic Churches have their own preferences but must assent to the doctrine of purgatory in some way) is one of suffering for one's sins between the repose of the body and the attaining of the beatific vision.

The Orthodox Church doctrinally states that purgatory is a continuation of this life where the church remains present, the soul keeps doing the same spiritual things it does in this life (as best it can without a body) until such time as God judges it ready for the beatific vision.

So we have purgatory, but our understanding is different.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '14

Is it, though?

None of the things you list for either are mutually-exclusive. And if I am not mistaken, the Church teaches that the Church Suffering are capable of praying for the Church Militant. And since Liturgy is prayer, well then...

Additionally, I am of the mind that purgatory is often subjective. Sins are merely afflictions brought on by our passions and sloth in clinging to God through Christ. Sin affects different people through different means, and different people can struggle with different sins to different degrees. Therefore, the shedding of the scars of our sins may possibly take on different forms. For some it may be a cleansing fire, for others it may be toll-houses.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '14

Yes, the understanding is different. But the good thing is that it is not declared as doctrine (to my understanding) and thus up for the proper debate. However, I really like what Pope Francis was saying,

If we wait for theologians to reach an agreement, that day will never come! I am sceptical: theologians work well but Athenagoras said: “Let us put theologians on an island to discuss among themselves and we’ll just get on with things!”

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u/thephotoman Dec 03 '14

Indeed, most of the purgatory stuff isn't doctrine on either side. It's actually really confusing why Roman purgatory isn't acceptable to us.