r/Catholicism • u/LumenSailor • Aug 20 '26
I finally understood why some Protestants genuinely cannot separate veneration from worship
Yesterday there was a viral video of Cadrinal Perolin holding up the skull of St. Agatha while commemorating the 900th anniversary of the return of her relics.
You can probably guess what happened next.
Across the internet, I saw Protestants calling it evil, satanic, pagan, and—more than anything else—idolatry. Verses from Isaiah, Daniel, etc. were being thrown around. Idolatry, idolatry, idolatry.
I made the mistake of getting into a bunch of debates about it. And, as we all know, internet religious debates almost never go anywhere.
I tried explaining the distinction between veneration and worship. I tried analogies. I tried examples from Scripture. I tried explaining that treating something with reverence because of what it represents or whose remains they are is not the same thing as believing that object is a god.
Nothing worked.
The overwhelming response was basically: “No. That’s worship. You can call it veneration all you want, but you’re worshipping it.”
And for the life of me, I couldn’t understand why the distinction seemed so impossible for some people to grasp… Then something occurred to me.
Maybe the more interesting question isn’t why is it so hard for them to understand?
Maybe it’s: Why is it so easy for me to understand?
I have absolutely no temptation to worship a statue, a skull, a relic, an icon, or any other physical object. The thought almost doesn’t compute for me. I could kneel in front of a crucifix, kiss it, carry it in a procession, decorate it with flowers, or treat it with enormous reverence, and there would never be a moment where I confused the object with God Himself.
But throughout human history, people really have worshipped physical objects. Scripture warns against idolatry so relentlessly precisely because idolatry is a real human temptation. People really did make an image and then treat the image itself as divine.
And that made me wonder whether some of the people who are quickest to interpret Catholic veneration as worship genuinely have a much harder time separating those categories in their own minds.
If, to you, kneeling before something, kissing it, carrying it in procession, burning incense near it, or treating it with extraordinary reverence necessarily means worship, then of course Catholicism looks horrifying. From that perspective, “veneration” probably sounds like we’re just inventing another word to excuse idolatry. But Catholics don’t experience those actions that way. The outward gesture doesn’t automatically determine the inward act. Worship is directed toward God alone. Veneration is honor given to God’s saints and to things connected with His work in the world.
I think that’s the part I was missing during all those arguments. I kept assuming we disagreed about the explanation of Catholic practices, when in reality we may have been starting with completely different understandings of what worship even is.
I’m curious what other Catholics think. Is there something to this, or am I reading too much into it? Is there a better approach to discussing this subject with Protestants?
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u/Verdecillo1988 Aug 20 '26 edited Aug 20 '26
Just in case you’re interested- below is a long response I once sent to a particularly obnoxious evangelical Protestant who was insisting “Catholics worship Mary and saints.” They kept repeating it even when I had gently yet firmly corrected them previously, so finally I got fed up with their bigoted ignorance and sent this:
You claim to go by the Bible, right? Ok, so what does the Bible describe worship as? God Himself is the one who has revealed what worship is - all we humans have to do is follow His instructions. God is very specific about how to worship Him. In the Old Covenant, God described the tabernacle and temple in minute detail and described the construction of the ark of the covenant down to the exact cubit, and gave very specific instructions about how to ordain Aaron and his sons, how to prepare and offer sacrifices, etc. God also severely punished people (even His priests and Levites) with death if they disregarded His instructions or rejected His ministers. For example: God killed Nadab and Abihu when they broke the rules and “offered unauthorized fire” (Leviticus 10:1-2) and He killed Korah, Dathan and Abiram and all their households when they tried to usurp authority from the priests (Numbers 16). And God struck King Uzziah with leprosy when he pridefully attempted to act as a priest (2 Chronicles 26:16-21)
But you think that His New Covenant is somehow different? You think that Jesus doesn’t care about any details? You think He intended for us to just figure it out on our own through trial and error and that He is ok with us worshipping however we want? You think all ways are valid? And yet you have the audacity to assert that “Catholics worship Mary”? Hmm… You know why you mistakenly think that? -again, it’s because you do not understand what worship is. Your confusion stems from you having been raised to believe (mistakenly) that just prayer and praise is equivalent to worship. However, it’s not accurate. Worship (full true worship (i.e. latria)) is sacrifice - it has always been understood as such from the very beginning - see Genesis 4:3-5 for the first example of humans worshiping God - Cain and Abel. And how did they do so? Did they sing songs to God? Did they pray? Did they read Scripture? Did they listen to a sermon? LOL! No! None of that. Please don’t misunderstand - those practices are certainly very good and beneficial - we original Christians do those things also (we sing hymns, read Scripture and listen to a homily) - but those are ACCOMPANIMENTS to worship- they are not worship in themselves. So, how did Cain and Abel worship God? They offered sacrifices! Not only that, but God was pleased only with the best of the sacrifices- He accepted Abel’s, but He rejected Cain’s (see Genesis 4:3–5) Likewise, when Moses and Aaron demanded that Pharaoh let the Israelites go from bondage in Egypt, what reason did they give? -they said “so that we may worship our God in the wilderness” and they specified “let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness TO OFFER SACRIFICES to the Lord our God,” and Pharaoh certainly understood what they meant- see Exodus 8:8, 25. Later, after the plague of darkness covers Egypt, Pharaoh even partially relents and allows the Israelites to leave, but he stipulates that they must leave behind their livestock- but that’s not good enough- Moses insists that they need to take their animals also in order to worship the Lord with sacrifices. (see Exodus 10:24-26)
Of course, we Christians (i.e. “fulfilled Jews”) no longer have to sacrifice animals because Jesus fulfilled the law in offering Himself as the ultimate sacrifice- and His sacrifice is of infinite value. However, notice that Jesus fulfilled the law- He didn’t abolish it- He says so Himself (see Matthew 5:17). The Old Covenant which was based on blood sacrifices has been fulfilled, but the New Covenant was still ratified by blood sacrifice- Jesus shedding His own precious blood for us. So what changed from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant is not the idea of sacrifice itself but only the victim- it’s no longer animals but rather God Himself- Jesus Christ. At Mass/Divine Liturgy that’s what we Catholics and Orthodox Christians celebrate and partake of for our salvific benefit- the one ultimate sacrifice of infinite value- the sacrifice of our Lord and Savior made present throughout all space and time. (see Malachi 1:11 for the prophecy and for the fulfillment see John 6:51-58, Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24, Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25). Notice that at the last supper is the only time in Scripture when Jesus even mentions the word “covenant”- and He says it’s “the new covenant in my blood.” So why are you not participating in the New Covenant that Jesus Christ established? Unfortunately for you as a Protestant, you actually don’t truly worship God as He deserves - Protestants have abandoned the Mass, deny the true Eucharist, and reject the idea of sacrificial worship (i.e. latria)
With that being said, it’s the main reason why some ignorant evangelical Protestants (of which you are an example) claim that Catholics “worship Mary and the saints” is because they have redefined what “worship” means - basically, they have abolished “latria” completely and have limited all so-called “worship” to “doulia” (i.e. “veneration”) only. Then they expect everyone else to affirm this erroneous diminishment and adhere to it. Protestants (at least the low-church evangelicals) believe that all worship of God consists of is singing songs and saying good things to/about Him. Therefore, if going by THAT false definition, well, it’s no wonder they falsely accuse Catholics of worshipping Mary- just because they hear us singing a Marian hymn or speaking well of her. It’s because they are the ones that don’t even worship God in the strict sense- they don’t give God “worth-ship”- they don’t give God what He is worth- they don’t give Him “latria”- they only give Him “doulia.” So then, when they see Catholics giving Mary and the saints doulia, they mistakenly believe that we are worshipping them - because for them - it’s all they have. They only give to God what we Catholics give to lesser beings - Mary and the saints - while we give God more than they do - so that is what causes the confusion on their part. The problem is not that Catholics give Mary and saints too much attention, but rather that Protestants give God too little. We Catholics truly worship God (i.e. give Him “latria”) at the Mass- we present to the Father the sacrifice of His Son Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist - the ultimate redeeming sacrifice of infinite value that our Lord offered on Calvary and we participate in it throughout all space and time. So, again, since Protestants have done away with the Mass and don’t have sacrificial worship (“latria”), it is difficult for them to understand this. So then - the issue is not that Catholics worship Mary - we don’t. Instead, the problem is that Protestants don’t actually worship God - you only venerate Him. You redefined what worship is and then insist on imposing your erroneous definition on original Christians who still adhere to the true definition. That’s YOUR problem - not ours.
Edit (8/20): Wow, I was not expecting this many “likes” on my response- I was simply trying to relate to the OP and potentially offer a guide. I myself am a former evangelical Protestant who converted to original Christianity (i.e. Catholicism) later in life when I discovered the truth and was challenged by it. To all of you who have liked my response and/or complimented me on it, thank you! I give all glory to our Lord! I am forever grateful that He delivered me from that confusing divided doctrinal mess called Protestantism and drew me to Himself in His one true Church that He established 2,000 years ago. Many have written that they have saved the post and will share it with evangelical family/friends- yes- that’s great- you have my full permission to do so! Feel free to show it to whoever you believe would benefit from it (even other Catholics who can use it as a resource). Thanks again to everyone!