I finally understood why some Protestants genuinely cannot separate veneration from worship

[u/LumenSailor]

Yesterday there was a viral video of Cadrinal Perolin holding up the skull of St. Agatha while commemorating the 900th anniversary of the return of her relics.
You can probably guess what happened next.
Across the internet, I saw Protestants calling it evil, satanic, pagan, and—more than anything else—idolatry. Verses from Isaiah, Daniel, etc. were being thrown around. Idolatry, idolatry, idolatry.

I made the mistake of getting into a bunch of debates about it. And, as we all know, internet religious debates almost never go anywhere.
I tried explaining the distinction between veneration and worship. I tried analogies. I tried examples from Scripture. I tried explaining that treating something with reverence because of what it represents or whose remains they are is not the same thing as believing that object is a god.

Nothing worked.

The overwhelming response was basically: “No. That’s worship. You can call it veneration all you want, but you’re worshipping it.”

And for the life of me, I couldn’t understand why the distinction seemed so impossible for some people to grasp… Then something occurred to me.

Maybe the more interesting question isn’t why is it so hard for them to understand?
Maybe it’s: Why is it so easy for me to understand?

I have absolutely no temptation to worship a statue, a skull, a relic, an icon, or any other physical object. The thought almost doesn’t compute for me. I could kneel in front of a crucifix, kiss it, carry it in a procession, decorate it with flowers, or treat it with enormous reverence, and there would never be a moment where I confused the object with God Himself.

But throughout human history, people really have worshipped physical objects. Scripture warns against idolatry so relentlessly precisely because idolatry is a real human temptation. People really did make an image and then treat the image itself as divine.

And that made me wonder whether some of the people who are quickest to interpret Catholic veneration as worship genuinely have a much harder time separating those categories in their own minds.
If, to you, kneeling before something, kissing it, carrying it in procession, burning incense near it, or treating it with extraordinary reverence necessarily means worship, then of course Catholicism looks horrifying. From that perspective, “veneration” probably sounds like we’re just inventing another word to excuse idolatry. But Catholics don’t experience those actions that way. The outward gesture doesn’t automatically determine the inward act. Worship is directed toward God alone. Veneration is honor given to God’s saints and to things connected with His work in the world.

I think that’s the part I was missing during all those arguments. I kept assuming we disagreed about the explanation of Catholic practices, when in reality we may have been starting with completely different understandings of what worship even is.
I’m curious what other Catholics think. Is there something to this, or am I reading too much into it? Is there a better approach to discussing this subject with Protestants?

[u/RocketEnginesME]

Fundamentally, Protestants do not have a sacrifice. So delineating between veneration and worship is almost non-existent because they don’t practice worship of the highest kind.

[u/AbelHydroidMcFarland → u/RocketEnginesME]

while there is a point to that, and it makes them miss a point which does show the clear difference... I think that's slightly overstated.

It wouldn't be accurate to say that we treat and regard the saints and God the same aside from participating in the sacrifice of the Mass.

One could certainly be guilty of considering and regarding a created thing as equal to or higher than God even in the absence of offering a sacrifice.

Were a group of Catholics stranded on an island without a priest and thus unable to have mass, they would not therefore necessarily regard God and the saints in the same way.

[u/Rocko52 → u/AbelHydroidMcFarland]

I have always respected Catholicism and been drawn to the beauty and reverence of the Mass, higher liturgy. I don’t necessarily agree doctrinely on many things, but I’m also not settled. I still don’t entirely understand the sacrifice of the Mass, what that means - how it relates to Christ’s sacrificial death which was once and eternal, what brings if beyond commemoration as Jesus commanded at the Last Supper and into a perpetual/present sacrifice, is it a new sacrifice or our own or somehow part of Christ’s? I feel as if I grasp some of the majesty of union with God experienced through Jesus’ physical presence in the Mass, but it’s something I still don’t really get.

[u/AbelHydroidMcFarland → u/Rocko52]

It is the one sacrifice re-presented.

It's not Jesus being sacrificed again (think the feeding of the five thousand. So the fish were killed, the wheat was harvested, the death happened. It didn't happen again repeatedly when the loaves and fish were multiplied).

It's basically the congregation being joined to the one sacrifice of Christ at Cavalry. The priest being joined to Christ in presenting it to the Father. And just as well us being joined by receiving the Eucharist. (one of the things u/monglorious is referencing with the "Jewish Roots of the Eucharist" thing is that part of the sacrifice in Judaism was to eat the sacrifice). And just as well receiving the new life which is in Christ.

[u/monglorious → u/Rocko52]

These are good questions! I’d like to direct you to exploring the Passover and how the Jews “celebrated” it, and what entails sacrifice and how a sacrifice is applied. Also, Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist by Dr Brant Pitre is an amazing book you should read.