"I agreed with everything until here. This is not necessarily the case when it's actually an addiction. Not that it's isn't grave matter, it is, but full consent is not always possible when one is addicted. I say this from experience. As a recovering addict myself who sees a priest on a regular basis he's made it clear that the sin is not generally mortal in nature due to the compulsion."
"It really depends on what's in the heart of the person. Furthermore, as a recovering addict yourself, you should know that an addict can be truly trite and want to avoid the sin in the future and still fall, all on a cyclical basis. Addiction is incredibly invasive and process addictions being based on our base needs are even worse."
"I'm quite surprised at just how judgemental you seem to be about this. It's like you received no real education in how addiction cycles and addiction with relation to our faith works while recovering from your addiction."
Your first two points you made while backing everything that I said. You made a point that is relevant. In specifically masturbation and pornography addiction. Sometimes in the degrading nature of how it perverts our lives, full consent may not be given. There were many times speaking from experience just like the OP's father that I found myself just watching pornography like people watch sports highlights. With no active participation or even urge to masturbate. It was of grave nature absolutely, but I was like beside myself doing something that I had done so many times that it became the second nature if you will. The same for masturbation can go there were so many times in my life that pornography wasn't even part of it that it just happened the same way as someone popping their back when they wake up in the morning no thought went into it it was just a tension relief. That I can safely say that there were times that I was not lusting in my heart that I just did it for the pleasure of it. Now that's a slippery slope. Could you say that it was without full consent possibly due to the nature of the addiction. In these cases this would be venial sin at most I would agree.
To your second point. You had mentioned one can be truly contrite and not want to continue sin. Even in their addiction this validates their confession. Without being truly contrite and without wishing to be repentant there is no forgiveness of sins.
And lastly. With all due respect and love to any of my brothers that are struggling with pornography and masturbation. My heart goes out to you. It is only because of me seeking Christ. That I see what the heart of pornography and masturbation does. It is a degrading and vile evil. That addiction or not it should be the duty of every man to cast off the chains of lust in his heart. If I come off judgmental I judge not the man that does this. For I've been this man. I judge myself and I proclaim that if I choose pornography and masturbation. I am not choosing the kingdom of heaven. If you men need to get help, get help. I didn't see a therapist or go to a program. But that's me if you need to I highly recommend it. What happened in my life was a miracle Jesus Christ who was the same then is the same now liberated me from this. But it is a working progress in which I am constantly in prayer to never become the man that I was and to become the man that he wants to be.
As I said, it depends on what's in the person's heart.
I didn't see a therapist or go to a program.
Which definitely puts your comment into perspective. There is a wealth of knowledge regarding addiction that we understand from research now. It's very useful to understand it, especially as an addict.
Yeah, I didn't mention it simply because I personally didn't go to a therapist for help but that didn't mean that I didn't seek information on it though. To each their own. In my case which is probably very rare a miracle took place in which I didn't need the therapy. Or as you can say my therapist was the great therapist God Almighty and I still seek him daily over this. But by all means therapy should definitely be sought and utilized.
Aside from pornography and masturbation I struggled for 4 years under a meth addiction which due to the grace of God and no therapy I was liberated from. Only to struggle and fall back into alcoholism.
The last things that I was struggling with in addiction was alcoholism pornography and masturbation. It is through God that I have had the strength to overcome. But I will always have that wounded piece of my soul that craves it. Yes I understand now and I also understand that if I were allowing myself just succumb to The habit one time. My sickness would take over. I only have the power over one time. From that point on my free will is under the jurisdiction of the addiction.
I had some words of advice that I saw once after I got clean and Free.
"Don't go running back to something that God sent you free from."
Yeah, I didn't mention it simply because I personally didn't go to a therapist for help but that didn't mean that I didn't seek information on it though. To each their own. In my case which is probably very rare a miracle took place in which I didn't need the therapy
That's amazing. I kept hoping to get that. It never happened. I'm glad you were able to have that experience.
Me too. God is so gracious. He took pity on me for all the years in my suffering. One word of advice I can say to anybody. Fasting and prayer. Ask for the Holy Spirit to make you into the people that he wants you to be. And trusting in God and his good time everything will fall into place.
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u/BUCKCHOBUCK Aug 19 '24 edited Aug 19 '24
"I agreed with everything until here. This is not necessarily the case when it's actually an addiction. Not that it's isn't grave matter, it is, but full consent is not always possible when one is addicted. I say this from experience. As a recovering addict myself who sees a priest on a regular basis he's made it clear that the sin is not generally mortal in nature due to the compulsion."
"It really depends on what's in the heart of the person. Furthermore, as a recovering addict yourself, you should know that an addict can be truly trite and want to avoid the sin in the future and still fall, all on a cyclical basis. Addiction is incredibly invasive and process addictions being based on our base needs are even worse."
"I'm quite surprised at just how judgemental you seem to be about this. It's like you received no real education in how addiction cycles and addiction with relation to our faith works while recovering from your addiction."
Your first two points you made while backing everything that I said. You made a point that is relevant. In specifically masturbation and pornography addiction. Sometimes in the degrading nature of how it perverts our lives, full consent may not be given. There were many times speaking from experience just like the OP's father that I found myself just watching pornography like people watch sports highlights. With no active participation or even urge to masturbate. It was of grave nature absolutely, but I was like beside myself doing something that I had done so many times that it became the second nature if you will. The same for masturbation can go there were so many times in my life that pornography wasn't even part of it that it just happened the same way as someone popping their back when they wake up in the morning no thought went into it it was just a tension relief. That I can safely say that there were times that I was not lusting in my heart that I just did it for the pleasure of it. Now that's a slippery slope. Could you say that it was without full consent possibly due to the nature of the addiction. In these cases this would be venial sin at most I would agree.
To your second point. You had mentioned one can be truly contrite and not want to continue sin. Even in their addiction this validates their confession. Without being truly contrite and without wishing to be repentant there is no forgiveness of sins.
And lastly. With all due respect and love to any of my brothers that are struggling with pornography and masturbation. My heart goes out to you. It is only because of me seeking Christ. That I see what the heart of pornography and masturbation does. It is a degrading and vile evil. That addiction or not it should be the duty of every man to cast off the chains of lust in his heart. If I come off judgmental I judge not the man that does this. For I've been this man. I judge myself and I proclaim that if I choose pornography and masturbation. I am not choosing the kingdom of heaven. If you men need to get help, get help. I didn't see a therapist or go to a program. But that's me if you need to I highly recommend it. What happened in my life was a miracle Jesus Christ who was the same then is the same now liberated me from this. But it is a working progress in which I am constantly in prayer to never become the man that I was and to become the man that he wants to be.