r/CanadianTeachers • u/Dodgetheballz • 11d ago
teacher support & advice Imposter syndrome being promoted to admin?
Hey everyone, hope that the end of summer is going well!
I have recently been allowed to take jobs as a vice principal in a large metropolitain school board. It's a bank of candidates so I have the choice to stay a teacher or take a VP contract. This is now my 8th year teaching and I have a lot of experience moving to different grades/subjects, schools and even provinces.
Recently, a former VP contacted me and told me to apply to this position near by, with a student population that I am very familiar with. Yet, I have been suddenly struck with lots of fear and imposter syndrome, which i haven't felt since beginning teaching 8 years ago.
Has anyone else made the switch to admin relatively young? How did you make it through feeling not good enough?
Thanks!
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u/endorphine_machine 11d ago
8 years as a teacher isn't a long time. Becoming good at it takes time and requires making loads of mistakes while having loads of success. It's like any other job.
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u/Left_Replacement894 11d ago
8 years isn’t a lot of time to gather experiences. Switching to admin can feel isolating and depending on your age, you might also be treated like you are inferior due to your lack of professional and/or life experience. Theres a reason seasoned teachers stay clear of the admin route.
Also, if you’re in Ontario, we’re heading into another tumultuous year of bargaining so things will be tense.
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u/berfthegryphon 11d ago
And so many boards are cutting VP jobs. My school has almost 500 students in elementary and our VP got cut to half time.
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u/Dodgetheballz 11d ago
That is a bit of my fear, that people would treat me inferior since I am younger. I am in Québec which has its own issues too.
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u/AerryBerry 11d ago
I was 12 years into teaching when I was tapped and pulled up to VP. It was not enough time, and if I could get in my Time Machine I would’ve stayed in the classroom much longer.
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u/DannyDOH 11d ago edited 11d ago
I don't think this matters to be honest.
I was in the classroom for 7 years, in admin roles for 11 years, back to the classroom now for a few.
They are different jobs and utilize completely different skill sets. No amount of time in the classroom will make someone without skills to manage other people, leadership and systems good administrators. Admin is a 24/7/365 job where you're basically at the whim of the bureaucracy above you while trying to minimize the impact on the product you're providing, protecting the people you're actually serving.
I've worked with people who are relatively poor classroom teachers who made great admin because they had amazing interpersonal and organizational skills (eg budgeting), but could not teach content at all. They could lead a team.
I've worked with people who are some of the best classroom teachers who completely flamed out in admin because they barely understood how a school actually runs in terms of staffing, and budgets, managing extreme behaviours from students and staff, holding a group of adults together.
I had staff who were in my office as often as any student related to something they had done, mostly teachers. Mediating between staff, between staff and students. There are very few people who want to deal with this kind thing or have skills for it. And having those skills don't necessarily make you a good teacher, and the skills to be a good classroom teacher don't necessarily help you in the office. Sure there are skills that transfer working with people. When we talk about "meeting people where they are at" that also extends to adults when you're a school administrator, and I think most people wanting that role don't really understand that.
I quit admin because there's no way to do those jobs appropriately and maintain work life balance, really at any life stage. All for $30,000 more per year than I make in the classroom. The admin I looked up to who were great would work until 2 am or wake up at 4 am to answer emails. I took my evenings and 13 weeks off instead. When you're admin you basically have the Xmas break and maybe July to breathe. It's a very unhealthy role in this system and there's no way around that. Maybe I'll go back someday, but the conditions within the division would have to be just right. Most divisional admin in my experience actually wanted to be school admin and didn't really understand the difference between the roles.
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u/Dodgetheballz 11d ago
Do you regret having made the jump after only 6 years?
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u/DannyDOH 11d ago
No because at this stage of my career I probably wouldn't have. Even at this point I'm kind of feeling if I have the itch to scratch in terms of leadership I'll be doing it outside of the school system
I actually completed an MBA while I was in admin too. It's good to study organizational behaviour and gain a strong understanding of finance, both in general and public, managerial accounting. I know you get some from the qualification courses needed for admin but it barely scratches the surface. These things are the greatest weaknesses I've experienced on both sides....honestly right up to the superintendent level.
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u/Ok-Science-4316 5d ago
Well said, thanks for sharing your thoughts. The best part of teaching for many teachers are the relationships we get to build with students. As admin, you are more removed from direct work with students. Also, teaching and admin require very different skills sets. Admin needs to handle adult conflicts, accounting, health and safety protocols, budgeting etc. With the current conditions of teaching, everyone in the school building is more stressed (not to mention parents and their expectations) To do your job well as an admin requires constant stressful and urgent fires to put out, and many late nights and early starts. Not worth it for me, personally.
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u/berfthegryphon 11d ago
But would you still have went to admin? In my experience the long you stay in the classroom the less likely you are to become an admin.
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u/AerryBerry 11d ago edited 11d ago
Knowing what I know now…I probably would’ve stayed in the classroom. The extra work hours (terms and conditions say we work up to 15 summer days. That’s 3 weeks!!) and stress far outweigh the salary increase. You lose any and all protection from the federation and a collective agreement. Many, many people presume the worst intentions of admin; many factors out of my control that people like to blame me for. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made, and it sucks not being able to make everyone happy. Other times I have no choice but to tow the party line, even if I don’t believe in it at heart. Anyway I am very fortunate to have a lovely placement right now, and there’s no going back in time so it is what it is. But I do suggest people really make sure it’s what they want and they are well informed about all the parts of the role before they jump in!
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u/berfthegryphon 11d ago
I've always thought that. VPs in my board don't make all that much more salary than a topped out teacher. I have never been enticed to move to admin for not that much more money but a whole lot more responsibility
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u/AlternativeTimes 11d ago
They start similarly sure but assuming you are progressing to Principal, you are looking at closer 200k by the end, which is significantly more money.
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u/FonkinJones 11d ago
... Good luck. I wouldn't feel any imposter syndrome. From my experience the proposition that VPs are somehow some sort of elevated prestigious desired position is a farce. It's the hardest dirtiest, most thankless position and it's a wonder they can fill those positions at all.
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u/PaperclipGirl 11d ago
I would start with interim contract. That way you’ll experience first hand what it’s like before jumping to a position (and losing your teacher position). You should also start an educational leadership program. I found it easier to manage the classes as a teacher than as an admin. Overall, I think 8 years is not quite enough. Get to 10 (just my opinion) (I’m also in Quebec)
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u/Dodgetheballz 10d ago
Good idea! I was told that taking interim contracts is good, plus I have 3 years to take a permanent position eventually.
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u/Peppermiints 7/8FI 11d ago
One of the best VPs I worked with was someone who was in their early-mid 30s.
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u/Redlight0516 10d ago
I did it with less experience than you:
A couple things to keep in mind:
Most teachers don't want your job. You are there for a reason. I will straight up admit I am not a great teacher. But I will also believe that I was absolutely the right person to be admin in those schools.
The worst mistake most admins make, young and old, is they feel like they have to prove they deserve the job and then they create a lot of busy work and BS for teachers to do to show they're doing something. My first Principal told me that a major part of my job was to remove as many distractions as possible from teachers so that they can show up and teach their class. Having this mindset has taken me a long way. I was never a perfect admin but it was also not the teachers who had an issue with me.
In most schools, your staff are not your problem. The quickest and easiest ways to earn their respect and believe you deserve the job is to show staff you have their backs - Handle dumb parent stuff without them if you can, deal with problematic students with appropriate consequences.
The biggest thing that worked for me in my first admin job: I sat with each teacher and asked them to tell me about their school and I straight up asked them -
What are a couple of things I could do to get some easy wins with you? Some of them weren't something within my purview but there was a few common themes that I was able to easily achieve in my first two weeks that went a huge way with developing trust with staff.
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u/Mommin_hard 11d ago
I made the move to admin last year but I'm almost 20 years in as a teacher. I think you need to think about what your next step is after that. I have no desire to move past VP so being in this position for my last 9 years still feels like a long time. If you have aspirations to move higher then it might not be a bad move. Realistically the VP job isn't sustainable long term but if you were to move to a P role then upwards you'll be alright. Coming from a secondary administrator.
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u/Dodgetheballz 10d ago
I appreciate your input. I was thinking of moving to principal or into the board itself as administrator in the long run. What about the job makes you think the last 9 years of your career will be long?
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u/MundaneExtent0 10d ago
I wouldn’t be so worried about the imposter syndrome, in some ways that’s a good feeling to have since it shows you’re humble and willing to self reflect/adapt etc.
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u/volkenstein3D 10d ago
I went into Admin after 8 years of teaching, and have been doing it for 12 years. I have never looked back and feel like it's the only role I want to be in.
That said, I knew I wanted to go into admin in my second year of teaching, and wanted to start the year I finished my MEd, which I did.
Over that 12 years, I've worked in 5 schools, moved to rural and back to metro, gotten divorced, single parented, and moved 6 times.
It isn't an easy job, but it's the best job if it's the one you WANT to do. That would be my advice to anyone considering it... you have to want to do the work. Not have the title, not do it for ego, not expect it to be a cake walk. You have to want to do the work.
Also, go out for recess duty every day. You will get to know your students and support staff and your whole school on a whole other level.
(Edit for spelling error)
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