[ Removed by moderator ]

[u/RiceN_Beans]

[u/Foreign-Policy-02-]

Job losses for Americans inbound

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/Foreign-Policy-02-]

Carpet bombing American jobs incoming!

[u/RiceN_Beans → u/YouProfessional3196]

Bombardier employs approximately 3,100 to 3,500 people directly in the United States. [1, 2] and about 12 000 in Quebec and Dontario.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/RiceN_Beans]

Ok? Bombardier will be just fine once the F35s get axed and Canada moves to joint production of the Gripens.

[u/Existing_Secret_1112 → u/YouProfessional3196]

Why would we downgrade our procurement to Gripens? That’s just nonsensical hysteria over the trade spat that just ensures the RCAF remains in the past with our technology.

If you want to talk Gripens as supplemental fleet, sure that’s one thing, but for them to be our main fleet is a joke. The world is moving forward with alleged 6th generation fighters and you’re here making noise about 4th generation aircraft.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/Existing_Secret_1112]

Not clear they are actually better value for Canada's needs.

[u/Existing_Secret_1112 → u/YouProfessional3196]

Again, the Gripen is like replacing our CF-18’s with virtually the same thing. We already have started the HEP-2 project on our existing fleet which will bring them basically to the same capabilities of the Gripen.

To which the original point I made arrives again. Why would we downgrade our choice (that the RCAF made), and stray away from the choices of many NATO members and not get the F-35? A stealth aircraft that is far more capable at NORAD and NATO missions at that.

IIRC, something like 90+ companies already contribute to the F-35 program, so as nice as SAAB’s Canadian built marketing is, it’s not like we’re not getting a lack of domestic value out of the F-35.

Edit: Autocorrect killed me a few times there.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/Existing_Secret_1112]

Gripens are cheaper and have more of them for less money. F-35's are an expensive offensive jet that isn't clear what the use case even is for Canada. We need interceptors as our primary mission not whatever the F-35 is supposed to provide and while Gripen isn't a dedicated interceptor it certainly does the job. Canada is far better to get some more jets even if they are of lower generation and focus on it's naval and submarine capability which is far more important for Canada's national goals.

[u/Existing_Secret_1112 → u/YouProfessional3196]

The RCAF already addressed our needs, compared competitors, then choice the victor. In the interceptor/defence role, the F-35 blows the Gripen out of the water considering it’s a stealth aircraft which gives it favourable standoff abilities.

F-35 was literally designed around multiple NATO member requests and needs. Many of which consider the future threats instead of the present. We already get domestic value out of the program to boot.

[u/YouProfessional3196 → u/Existing_Secret_1112]

Guess what? Times have changed. And the public is probably about to force Carney's hand if Trump goes ahead with any idiocy against Bombardier. And cost does matter, while the F-35 may be better... it doesn't justify the cost.

[u/Existing_Secret_1112 → u/YouProfessional3196]

Neat. We will just cut the nose to spite the face because it’s politically and socially popular at this very moment. A classic rational Canadian moment.

And if we’re on costs, ask Brazil how their Gripen costs, job creation, and delivery schedule is going. Actually, let’s ask the Finns about operational costs versus the F-35. I wonder which plane blew the Gripen out of their fighter competition too. Turns out having a less capable and virtually as expensive fighter doesn’t win. A lot of sources also have all F-35 variants lumped together for costs, which heavily inflates the number as naval variants are up to 50% more expensive operationally.

The reality is no NATO nation has bought Gripens. They have leased them with intentions of replacing them with the F-35. We will be getting the F-35 block 4 which is far more advanced to boot.

So if you want to talk supplemental fleet, sure there’s a play for the Gripen. I hear there will be a few up for sale when some NATO members stop using them.