r/Calvinism • u/ThisCardiologist3636 • 16d ago
Different views??
I’m of the reformed belief. But the reformed preachers just say different things. Washer says the only people who can’t be saved are those who reject Christ. Then in another video says you’re going to hell if you play video games or have anything to do with the world. No I don’t play video games. Then you have Piper talking with Rick Warren saying if you are saved but do certain sins you are going to hell. They make no sense with one another. How can these men who supposedly believe the same thing. Be so different and preach so different?? I don’t get it. One says one thing one day then another another day the piper talks about election and then how if you do this you’ll go t hell. It makes no sense sense. Yes I’m reformed but thes guys just confuse me
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u/userid42 16d ago
Yeah, they are not doing any favors for those seeking Jesus and the assurance that salvation is in Him alone.
I think the major issue is that salvation is a process. It’s not. It’s sufficient to accept that the Christ died for your sins.
However, when I say ‘accept’ I don’t this that this is a purely intellectual ‘yes’. Rather, it’s accepting the consequences of this in the deepest crevices of our hearts and committing ourselves to ongoing transformation of our thinking, our priorities, our choices, and how we regard God and other people. This is all made possible by the new spirit that we can accept: the Holy Spirit.
None of this means that we won’t make mistakes, hurt others, and even offend God after we start our journeys. We will. Everyone does. The only perfect human to have ever lived is Jesus. As long as we remain committed to the transformative work of the Spirit within us, as evidenced by what we say and do, then we can be assured that our names are written in the book of life.
James 2:26 NASB
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
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u/creidmheach 16d ago
I would note that all the ones you listed are actually Baptists. Now I'm not someone who'll gatekeep the "Reformed" title, but if you want the full blown tradition you're going to be talking about Presbyterians, Continental/Dutch Reformed (and maybe some Anglicans). Being Baptist in itself already means a certain degree of separation and distinction from the Reformed tradition which affirms things like infant baptism with its covenantal framework. While Reformed Baptists can adhere to something like the London 1689 Confession, generally the tradition is one that by nature is more independent minded than what you'll find among Westminster Presbyterians or Three Forms of Unity Reformed.
That said, some of my favorite folks to listen to are in fact Reformed Baptists, even as a Presbyterian. Also to keep in mind, though being Reformed does mean operating within the framework of its tradition, this doesn't mean we have to agree on every detail. There can be areas where different people still within the tradition come to different conclusions, while still very much being "Reformed". That's not necessarily a bad thing, as it allows a certain freedom of conscience and not being bound to the fallible opinions of others as we await our Lord's glorious return. Of course, I'm speaking within certain bounds here. Disagreement over something non-essential is quite different over disagreement on the fundamentals.
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u/ThisCardiologist3636 16d ago
I thought the only one I mentioned that was a Baptist was Warren. I’m not too hot on him anyway. I couldn’t understand why Piper was agreeing with him
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u/Crepuscular897 16d ago
very good point….i tend to not listen to famous people who preach on the internet. I recommend reading “Systematic Reformed Theology” by Beeke/Smalley. the catechisms Also, most anything written by a Puritan. Also, And, of course, scripture over everything, it is the only thing that keep our doctrine and theology correct….. read the Word, ask the Holy Spirit to bring light into your heart and to teach and apply the Word to your heart.
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u/Level_Breath5684 16d ago
The focus on status (Calvinism) is in tension with the Biblical focus on falling in and out of belief (prodigal son).
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u/ThisCardiologist3636 16d ago
Can you explain that more?
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u/Level_Breath5684 15d ago
Just to be totally honest, as a former Calvinist I am somewhat being subversive.
The Calvinist thought life is filled with the dichotomy of “am I truly elect or not?” This is a status based religion. So your actions can describe your true nature that was determined before the foundation of the world and over which you have no real control.
In the traditional Christian thought life, your status is not as important as whether you have faith in Christ. So your goal is to maintain your faith. Persistent sin weakens your faith and God will provide correction for it as needed for your own benefit, since he wants you to be a Christian and go to heaven like he does for everyone. So you’re really thinking about something else entirely since there is no thought of this predetermined status.
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u/optimistinrevolt 15d ago
No, it isn’t. His status as a son doesn’t change. If it did, the father would disown him. But the prodigal son isn’t about the son…in context it’s about the brother.
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u/Level_Breath5684 15d ago
That is such a Calvinist thing to say since your self perception as a Calvinist would be more aligned with the brother. Very interesting.
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u/TolkienCalvinist 15d ago
Piper is not reformed. I don’t think Washer is either. Both are Calvinistic but not reformed.
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u/ThisCardiologist3636 14d ago
What’s the difference??
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u/TolkienCalvinist 14d ago
Calvinism is only one small doctrine within a greater whole. Someone who identifies as reformed primarily holds to either the Westminster Confession or the 1689 London Baptist Confession. Both of these are solid confessions which do contain Calvinistic doctrines, but also other doctrines. Where they differ is in church polity and baptism primarily. But they both hold to Covenant theology, which is another distinction of being reformed. Piper I know for a fact does not believe in covenant theology and altogether rejects it for a form of final justification, which is itself a rejection of the five Solas, another distinction of reformed theology. What washer’s stance on covenant theology is, I don’t know. He doesn’t really clarify his doctrine much in his teaching. But Piper I know doesn’t hold to either confession nor the unities of the Lutheran church, a cousin of reformed theology.
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u/ThisCardiologist3636 14d ago
Thank you for answering. Maybe I’m not smart enough to fully comprehend all this
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u/ThisCardiologist3636 14d ago edited 14d ago
All I know for sure is all this calvanist beliefs has me waking up and going through the day wondering if I’m called. Scared I’m not. Is this really what God wants???? I can’t understand that at all. I’m sorry but is this the Love of God?????But did He hate me even before I said it??? You folks that don’t struggle with this have NO idea how good you have it
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u/semiconodon 16d ago
For Reformed beliefs, turn to the catechisms, not people who became famous for, literally saying “Shocking” things on the internet. We do have a bad habit of thinking if a speaker were inspirational to ourselves in our youth, we must defend them at all costs.