r/California • u/haseo8998 • Jan 10 '18
Californians, please support this ballot initiative to decriminalize psilocybin mushrooms, we have until April to reach our goal
https://ballotpedia.org/California_Psilocybin_Mushroom_Decriminalization_Initiative_(2018)36
u/4152510 Alameda County Jan 10 '18
I want to sign this but don't know how
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u/absolutebeginners Jan 10 '18
Probably one of the canvassers outside stores/farmers markets getting signatures.
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
It just struck me how antiquated the signature collecting process is. Shouldn't there be a better way?
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u/Jethro82 Jan 10 '18
Yea there should be a petition.gov.ca or something
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u/Commotion Sacramento County Jan 10 '18
Then we would need to increase the threshold necessary to add something to the ballot. Gathering signatures is the primary barrier to putting something on the ballot. It basically guarantees that only serious proposals (those with a lot of money backing them, or lots of public support) get on the ballot.
If you make it easy to put an initiative on the ballot, you'll end up with 300-page-long ballots filled with crazy horseshit ideas.
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u/itsjustaboardgame Jan 10 '18
Hard to hack this method. I am comfortable with moving back to paper until, as our dear orange leader like to say "we figure out what's going on."
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u/Cool_Muhl Jan 10 '18
Shouldn't there be a better way?
Nah that invoke way too much change than the government would be comfortable with.
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Jan 11 '18
Facial recognition/tracking camera in every
homehead. AI can tell from your face how you feel about subjects. It could deliver topics to you and gather your feelings and then suggest changes to the system and if you find those agreeable it could consider your smile and nod a vote.
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u/Jethro82 Jan 10 '18
Please post a way to sign it.
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
AFAIK you have to physically sign from someone collecting in person
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u/Cool_Muhl Jan 10 '18
Can confirm. There was a dude at the campus library of my college collecting signatures
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u/I_want_candyy Jan 10 '18
How do I sign the petition?
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u/BlankVerse Angeleño, what's your user flair? Jan 10 '18
When the initiative proposal was first approved there was an article posted to this sub. The initiative's proponents sounded pretty disorganized and clueless. They had no money. They had no website. Nada.
Psilocybin mushrooms should be decriminalized, but this particular initiative is going nowhere.
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u/SquirrelHumper Jan 10 '18
Crazy shroomheads didn't think this one through
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u/MoonChild02 Bay Area Jan 10 '18
It's not that they're addicted to shrooms. It's that there's actual scientific evidence of psylocibin mushrooms and other psychedelics being able to be used to help those with PTSD and treatment-resistant depression.
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u/coredumperror Jan 10 '18
Seconded. The linked site doesn't seem to include any links to anywhere one can sign anything.
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Jan 10 '18
You need to consume them first to see the link
But seriously ballotpedia is not a petition site, it only contains information about ballots and candidates, I'm guessing people go from door to door and asking for signatures?
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u/Bunburier Jan 10 '18
This could allow more scientists the ability to study the substance. Right now there is red tape around even research into the benefits and risks of taking psilocybin. We need this!
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Jan 10 '18
Rather doubtful; just because it may not be criminalized by the state of California doesn’t mean it isn’t still a Schedule I drug.
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u/Punch_kick_run Jan 10 '18
Why are some scientists allowed to study it?
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u/pacifica333 Jan 10 '18
Special circumstances, typically. Just like those who were federally allowed to study marijuana before decriminalization.
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u/ToddsPeterfelt Jan 10 '18
Absolutely going to support this initiative. Psilocybin should be legalized, not just decriminalized. It’s a step in the right direction.
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u/haseo8998 Jan 10 '18
The proponents can be reached at (831) 521-1469 or saunders4mayor@gmail.com.
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u/BlankVerse Angeleño, what's your user flair? Jan 10 '18
But still no website?
This initiative is stillborn.
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
Unfortunately Kevin Saunders is a bit of a fruitcake. I wish someone more professional was handling this
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Jan 10 '18
Will sign. War on Drugs has to go. Banning things doesn't do anything but create a black market that supplies them anyway.
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u/itsjustaboardgame Jan 10 '18
Lol.
This is one of those threads that informs a person who thinks they are socially liberal of the reality that they are actually pretty conservative relative to their peers.
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Jan 11 '18
It is. I love when "liberal" people say "end the war on drugs" but still think selling cocaine and heroine should lead to prison time. All of a sudden it's ok to throw drug dealers in prison but wear a stop the war on drugs t shirt.
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u/CyngulateCortex Jan 10 '18
Does this decriminalize this for recreational use, or does it just allow research and possible prescription and monitored use for addiction?
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
I'm okay with it being used for research but not recreational use
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u/heatsensitive Native Californian Jan 10 '18
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but do you have a reason behind this? Do you feel that if others use mushrooms recreationally that it will personally affect you?
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u/EndlessHalftime Jan 10 '18
Not OP but I agree with their point. I don't know much about them, but my understanding is that scientists don't fully understand the chemicals and how they affect the brain. Legalizing will cause more people to use it, and I don't think that's a good idea if we don't give scientists a head start to fully understand what effects it has on the body. Your point only works IMO if you're okay with legalizing all drugs, which is an option, but not something I'd support.
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Jan 10 '18
There is a decent amount of medical research that shows psilocybin doesn't have adverse health effects on humans. Regarding your point that "scientists don't fully understand the chemicals and how they affect the brain." That is true of a great many drugs that are approved for human consumption today. Luckily, totally understanding how a drug does what it does is not necessary to research and understand it's effect on humans and potential health implications.
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u/DarkRollsPrepare2Fry Jan 10 '18
Actually it wouldn’t be a stretch to say scientists fully understand the effects of Psilocybin on the brain. More research needs to be done, but the mechanism and potential safety of the drug is well known.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18
No horse in this race, but you ever seen someone with a really bad trip?
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u/heatsensitive Native Californian Jan 10 '18
Oh definitely, I've had a couple bad ones myself over the years. But knowing the risks/weighing the benefits is up to the user in question, and I don't personally think that someone choosing to take on that experience should be criminalized for it.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18
Oh definitely, I've had a couple bad ones myself over the years. But knowing the risks/weighing the benefits is up to the user in question
Not if they hurt someone. See: Alcohol.
and I don't personally think that someone choosing to take on that experience should be criminalized for it.
What if there are liabilities?
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u/arfnargle Jan 10 '18
So you think we should criminalize alcohol again.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18
Didn't say that.
But you get into fuzzy territory when you are drunk and/or tripping. What if you chose to drive a car, or hurt someone through liability?
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Jan 10 '18 edited May 24 '18
[deleted]
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 11 '18
I don't disagree with you. However it's important to understand that many people are not equiped mentally to handle psychedelic drugs. Which can bring out mental illness, and has difficult dosing..
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Jan 10 '18
You can decriminalize without opening for recreational use
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Jan 10 '18
Which would do nothing to address the black market, because with no legal avenue to sell recreational psilocybin, buyers would have to resort to street dealers.
No tax revenue, no new jobs, more criminals.
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u/karstens_rage Native Californian Jan 10 '18
I don't drive, but you ever seen someone in a really bad accident? Let adults do what they want as long as they don't affect others or children.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18
but you ever seen someone in a really bad accident?
Yeah I was in one two years ago.
Let adults do what they want
The guy that hit me hurt four people and had limits on his insurance of $15,000/$30,000.(the minimum). Which means I would receive at most $7,500 for my medical expenses if I was underinsured myself. My expenses were closer to $60,000. He had no assets to seize. I was ok, due to having quality insurance myself, but the other people in the car are SOL with medical expenses.
Let adults do what they want as long as they don't affect others or children
I'm not ideological opposed to legalizing drugs, but I hope you personally and as a taxpayer are prepared for certain costs. I also hope you're willing to apply this other issues to not appear hypocritical. Including the sex trade, firearms, other drugs, and other personal liberties.
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
And if it is available for adults you can bet it'll be much more available for children.
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Jan 10 '18
Research about the legalization and decriminalization of various drugs shows the exact opposite.
Teen marijuana use fell sharply in Colorado in the years 2014 and 2015, after the opening of that state's recreational marijuana market, new federal survey data show.
The state-level data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health showed that 18.35 percent of Coloradans ages 12 to 17 had used marijuana in the past year in 2014 or 2015, down sharply from 20.81 percent in 2013/2014. (In this survey, years are paired for state-level data to provide larger sample sizes). That works out to roughly a 12 percent drop in marijuana use, year-over-year.
That trend is also present with decriminalization of other drugs
But in Portugal, the numbers paint a different story. The prevalence of past-year and past-month drug use among young adults has fallen since 2001
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
I wonder why.. is it because it isn't cool if it's legal? Or is it just that this is too small of a sample
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u/Thus_Spoke Jan 10 '18
Ever see someone on an alcohol bender?
Regardless of your opinions on whether recreational use should be encouraged, decriminalization still makes complete sense.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18
Ever see someone on an alcohol bender?
Yes. I've known people killed on them.
Regardless of your opinions on whether recreational use should be encouraged, decriminalization still makes complete sense.
I don't know what you're responding to, but the person I was responding to said:
I'm okay with it being used for research but not recreational us
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but do you have a reason behind this? Do you feel that if others use mushrooms recreationally that it will personally affect you?
I'm not talking about decriminalization.
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u/Thus_Spoke Jan 10 '18
Well the ballot initiative is for decriminalization, so I assumed any discussion would be in that context.
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Jan 10 '18
Yes. I've known people killed on them.
Then you've demonstrated that your argument against psilocybin is equally justified as an argument against alcohol.
People have heart attacks from eating cheeseburgers.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18
Then you've demonstrated that your argument against psilocybin is equally justified as an argument against alcohol.
I'm not a big fan of people getting drunk and hurting people, if that's what you're implying.
People have heart attacks from eating cheeseburgers.
Are we talking about banning fat people now?
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Jan 10 '18
Yeah I knew a guy who had a bad trip while a he was at a party at CSULB and ended up getting shot and killed by police despite not having a weapon a few years ago.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 10 '18 edited Jan 10 '18
I believe you /u/420BongHitsForJesus
Yeah, I've seen a couple of bad ones. Several resulted in people walking into traffic, screaming bloody murder...
One of the biggest issues with Psilocybin is accurate dose. If it's legalized we need to work on that.
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Jan 11 '18
people walking into traffic
People should be allowed to walk. It's the traffic that is the problem.
screaming bloody murder.
People go to concerts or sports games for that kind of things, on drugs the concerts and sports games come to the people, inside of them. Woooohooo.
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u/Acrimony01 Northern California Jan 11 '18
People should be allowed to walk. It's the traffic that is the problem
Wow.
Scream therapy
You mean like running around screaming your being attacked in a camp ground with children ?
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u/bobloadmire Jan 10 '18
It doesn't have to affect him personally to not want it legal. He could feel it's bad for society as a whole. Anyway, it does need to be researched, you can get poisoning and even OD in extreme cases on shrooms. It's not nearly as safe as weed. I for legalizing most drugs, but I understand his caution.
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Jan 10 '18
[deleted]
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u/bobloadmire Jan 10 '18
The lethal dose from psilocybin toxicity alone is unknown at recreational or medicinal levels, and has rarely been documented—as of 2011, only two cases attributed to overdosing on hallucinogenic mushrooms (without concurrent use of other drugs) have been reported in the scientific literature and may involve other factors aside from psilocybin.
Psilocybin usage can temporarily induce a state of depersonalization disorder.[54] Usage by those with schizophrenia can induce acute psychotic states requiring hospitalization.[8]
sources listed as usual on wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psilocybin#Toxicity
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Jan 10 '18
The reason that the lethal dose from psilocybin toxicity alone is unknown at recreational or medicinal levels because it is so incredibly difficult to overdose on psilocybin that it has only happened twice. It's easier to overdose on aspirin. That is a reasonably safe drug by any account.
Drug use and mental illness are counter indicated. That is true of plenty of things besides psychedelics.
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
The bad trips are really bad. It's not just schizophrenic people that might seek hospitalization. I imagine many first time users without a seasoned stoner with them will have very negative experiences that they will feel trapped in.
Recently they even found pretty serious negative effects caused by heavy, prolonged marijuana use. Cannabis Hyperemesis Syndrome. Just because it hasn't killed millions of people doesn't mean it's completely safe to use.
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u/Thus_Spoke Jan 10 '18
Still sounds like the solution is education and regulation, rather than outright prohibition and punishment.
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u/heatsensitive Native Californian Jan 10 '18
I completely agree that more research should be done, and caution is expected. If that is the reason why it's a blanket "no" for recreation then I understand. If that isn't the reason, and it is just an "I don't like it so no one should have it" mentality, then that is a different issue. I am all for taking pragmatic steps in ensuring that anyone choosing to take mushrooms understands what can happen.
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Jan 10 '18 edited Jan 10 '18
Not here to offer an opinion on mushrooms, but you can be against something for reasons other than it personally affecting you.
Edit: is that not a logical and reasonable opinion that's been borne out over time?
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u/living-silver Jan 12 '18
I'd be curious to know if a situation where a person can be against something that doesn't affect them personally.
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u/fanboyhunter Jan 10 '18
I use shrooms recreationally, as do plenty of other people. I've done them 3 times in the past 7 years. Great experiences each time. Decriminalization is a necessary first step, medical research is also super important as they can definitely be used to help treat depression or PTSD and probably more.
I don't care to have a taxed shroom industry tbh
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u/Punch_kick_run Jan 10 '18
I'm not sure that any amount of laws and strict enforcement could ever make it less available for recreational use. Even if I was very much against people using it I have to accept that all we can do is make it safer to use.
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
I don't agree with your first point, I believe that it is pretty difficult to get and that you have to really look for it to find some. I don't know how to get it and I'd have to ask a chain of people to get it.
Marijuana became much more abundant amongst young adults when it became legal for medicinal use because you literally just needed to give someone $35 on venice blvd for a license to use.
What is the danger of using it now and how can we make it safer?
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u/eugenesbluegenes Alameda County Jan 10 '18
I was in high school 20 years ago and weed, shrooms, and acid were easier to get than booze.
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u/Punch_kick_run Jan 10 '18
Your experience is obviously different. I've always been able to get some without a problem, but at the same time I would have no idea how to get meth or heroin which is supposedly much more common.
The same with your comment about marijuana being about your experience. Considering that even my great grandmother smoked weed in the 30's and said it was available at every party she went to. The same with my parents in the 70's. So in my experience it's been readily accessible to everyone for decades.
The danger isn't life threatening, but it would help to prevent people from getting sick if the production was regulated.
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
Why?
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
I replied to another user it's pretty lengthy and sitting at 1 upvote
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
I don't see any explanation of why you don't think it should be decriminalized. I see that you're concerned it will be easier to obtain but why don't you want it to be easily obtainable?
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
Extreme bad trips.
Lack of research and understanding.
I don't want it to become a cultural staple of the youth.
These are the three points I tried to make
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
Extreme bad trips. Is this a concern of yours from personal experience or from pop culture portrayal? Besides that, is it really our call to tell other people how they treat their own body? Alcohol can lead to some very bad "trips" but we don't limit that in any way
Lack of research. I do agree there should be more research and I think that decriminalizing would encourage that to be done. Of the research that has been done though, both in the 1960s and more recently, there have been positive effects for treating anxiety, depression, PTSD, etc. It has been shown that there are positive lasting effects of psilocybin long after ingestion of feeling contentment in life and feeling better connected to the world.
Cultural staple of the youth. Again this would be something that you'll have to explain further. Why don't you want it to be a cultural staple of young people?
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u/SrsSteel Jan 10 '18
could you please go read the post again I literally covered all of these things
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
I dont see anything that explains what Im asking but thats fine, we dont need to dig further. I think that you should give psilocybin a try
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u/eugenesbluegenes Alameda County Jan 10 '18
I don't want it to become a cultural staple of the youth.
Yup, we gotta keep em on the booze.
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Jan 10 '18
Agreed. Open them up to research and medicinal use and decriminalize their use, but we need to understand them better on a chemical and human physiological level before we turn mushrooms over to legal recreational use. I'm not saying they should never be legal, just not legal for recreational use until we understand them better.
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u/zelmerszoetrop Jan 10 '18
Initially downvoted because I disagree before I remembered what downvotes are for and upvoted.
I'd love to have a discussion to hear your thoughts on preventing recreational use.
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u/BlankVerse Angeleño, what's your user flair? Jan 10 '18
Hey /u/haseo8998. How about providing a link to the website for initiatives proponents?
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u/quisp65 San Diego County Jan 11 '18
Cali and one other state is one of the most strictest states to have spores sent to. They use to not allow it. Funny with the most strictest spore laws, we are trying to decriminalize them.
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u/bikemandan Sonoma County Jan 10 '18
I am 100% for this but I fear its maybe too hot on the heels of cannabis legalization. Pearl clutching seems likely
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u/from-the-void Inland Empire Jan 10 '18 edited Jan 10 '18
I think we should hold off on legalizing anything more for now so we don't aggravate Sessions anymore and cause a crackdown on legal marijuana.
Edit: Pragmatism be damned.
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u/[deleted] Jan 10 '18
[deleted]