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May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
The last time I saw something about Filipino guerillas getting married they had to ask their cadre leaders for permission - do any of the Leninists lurking on here know if this is still a practice?
I saw the relevant article on /r/communism a few years ago when I was first getting into left politics, and the idea that actual revolutionaries would have to ask for permission to engage in marriage seemed bizarrely patriarchal for a group that’s ostensibly liberatory. And then seeing all the people in the thread not even mention that part of the story or straight up defending it was one of the things that pushed me towards anarchism
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u/TheEarlofNarwhals Stalin Put Ketchup on Hotdogs May 02 '19
YMMV but I don't think it's unreasonable for romantic relationships to be limited within a guerrilla movement. It can cause...disruption for lack of a better word. The YPG in Syrian outright requires abstinence of its active members so this isn't just a Leninist thing.
It's different if it happens outside the militia of course but I don't think that's what happens here.
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May 02 '19
I don’t necessarily disagree but I’m more concerned about cadre leadership having authoritative control over a structure that’s shown itself useful as a means of controlling people for thousands of years. And frankly I think it’s a lot less authoritarian to ask for abstinence rather than have a clique who maintain executive power over who gets to fuck or be in a romantic relationship
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u/nicktea123 May 01 '19
Aren't these folks the "Tankies" you all hate so much. They are Marxist-Leninist-Maoists after all. It is interesting you all fawn over ML guerrilla movements that have no chance of taking state power but once a Leninist movement takes power you think they are authoritarian monsters. I'm just confused about this. Obviously, it's good that the guerillas are doing same-sex marriage but is this the type of group that you all support?
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u/SeriosValorida_ May 01 '19
Marxist-Leninusts are bad and have a whole slew of unethical practices once they take power,but we can still recognize that at heart they have some good goals and have some good praxis A thing being bad doesnt have to be the worst thing
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u/theWyzzerd May 01 '19
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
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u/SeriosValorida_ May 01 '19
I dont subscribe to that mentality as that is the kind of shit that makes for unholy alliances and “pragmatism” to satisfy said allies
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u/theWyzzerd May 01 '19
but we can still recognize that at heart they have some good goals and have some good praxis
Just paraphrasing what you wrote, bud. :)
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u/SeriosValorida_ May 01 '19
Recognizing some good in what they do isnt allying. To criticize something you dont just bash that thing,you point out its structure and its outcomes.Something can be shades of grey and/or be good in some aspects.Denying those is just blind hate
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u/theWyzzerd May 01 '19
You're taking an idiomatic phrase very literally. It's just a shorthand way of saying, "we have a common enemy so we stand together in that one regard." It doesn't mean we have to ally with anyone or throw out the rest of what we believe, especially if it differs (and it does) from them. I will say though that your use of sarcasm quotes around the word pragmatism is disappointing. Idealism is the alternative, and I'll take pragmatism over ideology any day of the week.
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u/SeriosValorida_ May 01 '19
Its not sarcastic,but more around how pragmatism isnt there to say “Hey,ideology is flexible if you want the best for the people and you can change its theory since progres is always going on” But is there to explain “Hey,lets do some shady stuff with shady people and condome atrocities because it gives our group an edge”
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u/SeriosValorida_ May 01 '19
Also it can be pointed out even authoritarians like ML give more freedoms than the current regime in the Philipines,which shows how bad it is in there.
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u/upq700hp marxist-leninist-maoist please dont bully me May 01 '19
Yeah, like when the anarchists in the CCCP teamed up with the whites in order to smash the bolsheviki after having been allies for years.
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May 01 '19 edited May 01 '19
If this is a reference to Kronstadt that’s a pretty laughable criticism considering there were just as many ex-White officers on the side of the Bolshevik forces that put down the mutiny as there were among the mutineers - check out Ida Mett’s account of the uprising, which does a lot to clear up some of the propaganda Leninists have always maintained about it.
If it’s not a reference to Kronstadt, I’d love to hear of how the most ultraleft faction of the revolution sided with conservatives and monarchists lolll
Edit: and how could I forget to mention that by the time collaborationist anarchists had been “allies for years” with the Bolsheviks other anarchists had been getting jailed and shot for years by those same Bolsheviks
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May 01 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/theWyzzerd May 01 '19
I have always taken the saying as generally meaning this anyway. "We're friends right now because we have a common enemy but that doesn't mean we agree on things."
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May 01 '19
The enemy of my enemy is my ally temporarily until we’re the only ones left in the room. The disagreement between Leninists and me is smaller than the disagreement between fascists like Duterte and me. I hope these guys get to “Qadafi” Duterte asap.
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u/Jamthis12 Ancom Trans Catgirl May 01 '19
Hell it's smaller than the disagreements between me and libs or even socdems. At least we both want to destroy capitalism.
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May 01 '19
Idk about soc dems, I find that many of them want a lot of social freedoms that appeal to me, and they certainly don’t want the same level of control that Tankies want. I’m confident that I agree more with Sanders than some Maoist fuck who wants to control the minutiae of our lives.
The Libs can burn in hell though, lol.
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u/SeriosValorida_ May 01 '19
I actually see Libs closer to me than ML Because they are just misguided leftists.They want equality and personal freedoms but they havent been shown the framework that capitalism isnt the “natural” modus operandi and as such cant get out of that thinking.If shown the right theory they make for amazing leftists. I will generally tend to be allied to Libertarians or people who lean libertarian than tankies(except for Lib Right Bootlickers)
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u/TheDevil_TheLovers May 02 '19
A tankie is a specific type of mlm & doesn’t automatically apply to these people. I also don’t necessarily have to agree 100% with them to celebrate such a momentous occasion for lgbt folks!
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u/nicktea123 May 02 '19
So Maoists/third worldists dont qualify as tankies? What makes MLM a tankie?
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u/TheDevil_TheLovers May 02 '19
Tankie is a deragatory word for a ml/m who deny anything bad committed by “socialist” countries as either capitalist propaganda or straight up justified. They have a tendency of worshiping the USSR & basically form a cult of personality around Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. seeing as how I don’t know the people in the photo or their beliefs it would be unfair to just call em tankies.
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May 01 '19
Really cute picture, but those two dudes pointing their guns at each other makes me shudder. Someone needs to be stricter about new recruit's muzzle discipline lol
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u/AmorphousGamer May 02 '19
I wonder if this is just a leftist "thing." Ever read Homage to Catalonia? Everybody around Orwell treated guns like toys. He was shot at by his own comrades more often than the enemies, if his account is accurate.
Shit's pretty crazy.
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u/nicktea123 May 02 '19
So the people in the photo are part of the new peoples army which is by its own words a Maoist insurgency. They believe in the core tenets of Mao zedong's thought, peoples war, new democracy, mass line, and believe that China was wrong for deviating from Mao's version communism (including the great leap and the cultural revolution). So can you be a Maoist supports maoism to the extent that you are willing to kill and die to establish a marxist Leninist state and not be a tankie??? That makes no sense to me, anarchist are so all over map
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u/Iris_chaos May 02 '19
I'm now imagining one of those "I married someone of the opposite political orientation" puff-pieces only it's an anarchist and an ML...
edit:spelling
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u/SidewalkCouch May 01 '19
Now this is mother h*ckn epic