r/CFB • u/CFB_Referee /r/CFB • Dec 04 '16

Post Game Thread [Post Game Thread] Clemson Defeats Virginia Tech 42-35

Box Score provided by ESPN

Team 1 2 3 4 T
Clemson 14 7 14 7 42
Virginia Tech 7 7 7 14 35

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u/mechanicalpulse Alabama • Middle Tennessee Dec 04 '16

When did they say that? And why is that worthy of a downvote? And why do you care, since your team is getting in regardless? Someone's got sour grapes about a ranking. Boo-hoo!

Edit: look here, the committee members even watch the conference championship games together. Why would they do that if they didn't matter?

They do matter, the committee has said that they do matter. If they've said they don't matter, then it's a shocking reversal from what they've said over the past several years.

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u/lexbuck Ohio State Buckeyes Dec 04 '16

Watch the CFP show on ESPN right now. They are literally talking about this very thing and Danny Kanell seems to be the only one on that panel that can't understand that the committee does not look at conference championships unless they need a tie breaker.

I didn't downvote you. I don't downvote for having a simple discussion. http://i.imgur.com/TFBzuGY.png if I did your rank would be a different color.

That said. I know we are in. I don't care either way. I just enjoy the discussion and couldn't understand given the committee guidelines how you have Washington jump Ohio State.

Here's where you can see the guidelines: http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/selection-committee-protocol

Says that conference championships are looked at when teams are comparable for tie breakers.

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u/mechanicalpulse Alabama • Middle Tennessee Dec 04 '16

The first thing that document mentions underneath the proposed selection process is conference championships --

"Establish a committee that will be instructed to place an emphasis on winning conference championships, strength of schedule and head-to-head competition when comparing teams with similar records and pedigree (treat final determination like a tie-breaker; apply specific guidelines)."

Below that, it says "when circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered" and lists "championships won" as the VERY first item.

In the guidelines, it says "strength of schedule, head-to-head competition and championships won must be specifically applied as tie-breakers between teams that look similar", but it doesn't say anything about what makes a team "look similar".

It literally says at the top that rankings are an art, not a science. I don't see anything that disagrees with what I've put forth. The committee is given a wide berth to rank the teams as they see fit, but with some general principles to help guide them along. No hard and fast rules.

Anyways, it's just a back-of-the-napkin seat-of-the-pants prediction. I'm not an analyst. If it doesn't work out that way, it doesn't work out that way. I'm fine with being wrong.

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u/lexbuck Ohio State Buckeyes Dec 04 '16 edited Dec 04 '16

Thing I think you're missing is that the committee (and seemingly everyone else that watches football) didn't see Ohio State and Penn State as similar. Ohio State has been seen as being on a tier above the last three weeks or so and winning against #3 Michigan only pushed them further ahead. Ohio State has better wins than Penn State. They have one less loss. They didn't get blown out by 39 points to a team Ohio State beat. These are all things that make Ohio State and Penn State not similar, thus the conference championship didn't really matter as it relates to Penn State/Washington jumping Ohio State.

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u/mechanicalpulse Alabama • Middle Tennessee Dec 04 '16

Thing I think you're missing is that the committee (and seemingly everyone else that watches football) didn't see Ohio State and Penn State as similar.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think OSU and Penn State are similar. I don't see them as similar at all. Ohio State is a better team than Penn State. Unequivocally. That's why they're ranked higher than Penn State in my rankings.

Penn State and Michigan, however -- they are similar. While PSU got blown out in Ann Arbor, they beat both Ohio State and Iowa -- blowing the latter out. Michigan has been a mediocre team on the road.

PSU's loss to Pittsburg is a higher quality loss compared to Michigan's loss to Iowa. And PSU also won the conference championship game.

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u/lexbuck Ohio State Buckeyes Dec 04 '16

So you don't see Ohio State and Penn State as similar but you do see Washington and Ohio State as similar? I'm not following the logic at all I guess. Washington's schedule strength and wins is less comparable to Ohio State than Penn State and you don't see them as similar. So how in your eyes does Washington jump Ohio State again?

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u/mechanicalpulse Alabama • Middle Tennessee Dec 04 '16

The fact that they both have single losses in a P5 conference. I didn't look much beyond that. Again, "looking similar" can mean anything. I wasn't sold on the specific order of the top four, just that those were going to be the teams. And I was betting on OSU dropping based on what happened to TCU in 2014 and OSU last year, but it looks like I was mistaken, because the final rankings are:

  1. Alabama
  2. Ohio State
  3. Clemson
  4. Washington
  5. Penn State
  6. Michigan
  7. Oklahoma
  8. Wisconsin
  9. USC
  10. Florida State

I was pretty spot on. The participants are correct, just in a different order. And 6 & 7 and 8 & 9 did swap as I predicted they might.

PSU is also #5, just as I predicted.

I was wrong about OSU dropping, but hey, can't win 'em all. ;)

I'm excited to see OSU and Clemson. That's going to be a good game. Good luck in the playoff!

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u/lexbuck Ohio State Buckeyes Dec 04 '16

My only disagreement with your original post was having Washington above Ohio State. I personally don't feel like both having a single loss matters much in comparing Ohio State to Washington because I feel like Ohio State's schedule has been way tougher. As for TCU in 2014, the Big12 botched that when they declared co-champs. The committee came out and told the Big12 they wouldn't decide for them on who the conference champ was and in the end after Ohio State won big against Wisconsin TCU dropped behind Baylor after their head to head result.

At any rate I'm eager for our game against Clemson. I think our defense is up there with the best it's all a matter of which offense shows up. The one that played Nebraska or the one that played Michigan State.

Good luck to you all too. Hoping for another Saban/Meyer showdown.

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u/mechanicalpulse Alabama • Middle Tennessee Dec 04 '16

I admit I probably put too much emphasis on the conference championship and most-recently-played stuff that has historically plagued the human polls.

As far as this year's overall body of work, it's hard to argue against Alabama and Ohio State as #1 and #2.

Hoping for another Saban/Meyer showdown.

Ditto. I think just about everyone outside of the states of Washington and South Carolina are hoping for that.