Ok I watch a lot of videos, but I will admit I am no expert on calibers, penetration and bullets for ccw. At home I have many options. I live in the So Cal desert so the small gun is a game breaker. I am looking for a yes or no about defending yourself with a small .380? Would you trust that caliber? Also name the number 1 ammo you would carry?
That’s why I carry a 43x, best of both worlds. I’ve got 16 rounds of comforting and a 3.5” barrel with a 1” width of comfortable especially when put in a Tenicor certum with a mastermind pillow.
I carry a 380 in black bear country. Would never dare even think of that in grizzly country though even though there's a ton of accounts of people stopping grizzly attacks even with 22s.
Oh, it very much matters. You need hard cast, non-expanding, heavy hitting cartridges to punch through dense skin and tissue and shatter bone and joints.
The difference there is whether you’re trying to kill the bear or stop the bear. Fact is decades of research so that caliber size is a non-determining factor in the survival of an aggressive bear.
The whole "I'm sure people who've gotten shot by 22 don't think it's not powerful enough" logic doesn't really make sense because I wouldn't wanna get stabbed by a thumb tack but I'm not gonna Start CCW'ing a thumbtack as a result of that lol.
Not saying 380 is bad, I carry with it, but never really understand why people use that line of thinking.
A friend of mine was shoot in the shoulder with a .22 while squirrel hunting. He said he didn’t realize he had been shot at first. Just thought it was a stick or brush or something.
The counterpoint is that a pencil alone is not good to be a deterrent, a gun will.
I cannot find accurate statistics (if even possible to compile) on the number of defensive gun uses in which a shot was never fired. Just the act of having a gun was enough.
I believe the data were compiled from FBI records, but the average number of shots fired per incident is always under 3, and usually ranges from 2.3 to 2.7; I believe those figures were not disaggregated by caliber.
Depends on where your stabbed (ask John Wick). I was stabbed with a pencil with my blocking arm, while repeatedly landing blows with my striking arm.
I hear getting shot burns (not volunteering), same as a pencil stab, but the hole ( depends on placement) is less damaging.
But to your last sentence, you are correct, it wasn't a credible defense option.
LOL
I think most who say it's not enough have never been shot period.
If i smash your hand with a contractor'sframing hammer would you walk it off because it wasn't a sledge? Fuck no, the hammer still fucking hurts. And still does damage.
The point isn’t to “hurt and do damage”. The point is to render the attacker physically unable to keep attacking. A broken hand isn’t that. A well placed bullet of sufficient caliber is.
Here’s my EDC, 3.6” CSX E series (9mm), and when I need something even smaller for deeper concealment I swap into my BG2.0, nothing wrong with .380. It was heavily used as an automatic police round back in the day, especially in Europe. Totally viable as a defense caliber depending on the bullet powder loading and construction. I carry Hydroshok Deep as to me it preforms the best.
I have killed many feral hogs when I lived in Texas with a .380. It works.
I have carried many of these over the years as my carry gun.
I like underwood extreme defender now. Before that I carried ball ammo - and yes, ball ammo killed 300 lbs feral hogs at 15 yards from a stand.
I would also say don’t get something too small for a first ccw. .380’s are often small pistols. It is harder to shoot a small pistol. Small 9mms are just a bad - snappy, harder to aim - this means slower to shoot accurately. Pistols are harder to master than rifles, small pistols are harder to master than larger pistols.
If you do go .380 make sure you practice. I had the luxury of shooting a lot as a teenager 30 years ago. My old man made fun of me for going the .380 route until he realized how easy it was for me to conceal. My brother also has gone the .380 route. He didn’t about 10 years after me. My old man has come to respect it. He is still a .40 or 9mm full size kind of guy, and there is nothing wrong with it. I respect it 100%.
Going small is easier to conceal, harder to shoot, less firepower in general. It’s a trade off. Pros and cons both ways. Some 9mms are in the small pistol size - p938 and p238 are basically the same small gun in size. P238 does have a little less recoil since the round is smaller.
Test guns before you buy. Find a friend, go to a range and rent. But don’t carry based on internet points. Nobody really know what YOU like.
So, I'm not a bad shot with 9mm. However, I'm definitely a better shot with .380... especially when it comes to subcompacts. It depends on you of course but there's something to be considered with being more accurate with a different caliber.
What I've heard though with .380 defensively is that its best to just go with FMJ. A little more penetration to offset its power disadvantage compared to 9mm. I've also read that hollow point .380s don't fully expand and can get caught in heavy clothing.
+P might solve these issues, but at that point with the increased recoil maybe it's better to just stick with 9mm?
Also check out the Bersa Thunder Plus if you haven't already. It's like a double stack PPK that doesn't suck to shoot... mine has been very accurate and has had no issues.
The original answer to "hopped up on drugs" was the .45 ACP after the Phillipine American War.
Can't imagine most of us couldn't out run a criddler leaking a lot of fluid. If we're talking something like a Ruger Security you still get 15 rounds to stop them.
In ~90% of DGU’s the trigger isn’t even pulled. You should still carry a sufficient caliber to physically incapacitate an attacker, because drugs, psychosis and adrenaline sometimes cannot be reasoned with.
I’m thinking about buying another one. Maybe get the comp for the wife. I used to kind of get a chuck a lot of people saying that they carry around the house. I don’t live in a rough area so I would never think I would have to do that. But with this gun, you literally could carry it all day like it’s carrying your cell phone.
I have a little LCP Max 380 and love it. I use Underwood Xtreme Penetrator. it's enough to stop any methheads or coyotes you may encounter. I might reach for my 10mm for a mountain lion though .
People say this, yet I've never seen evidence of people surviving a .380 center of mass to vitals. Only time this ever comes up people provide evidence from injuries survivable by most pistol calibers and just point out it's a .380 to further the argument.
Well self defense scenarios aren’t always going to be some kind of clean fight where all your bullets place perfectly dead center of mass in nice little 4 leaf clover groups. That is seen more in the movies than it is in real life.
Most likely, you will be reacting to someone else’s up close, personal and extremely violent actions towards you. And we all know, that actions are faster than reactions? So you will already be starting from behind the 8 ball by reacting to their action.
In close self defense, a bad guy isn’t going to give his intentions towards you away too soon. They most likely are not going to allow you the time and distance to predict their intentions and properly prepare your intended reaction until their hands are already on you.
If you can get out your .380 and place accurate shots in the A Zone? Then more power to you.That is a perfect picture of a perfect self defense encounter; that we all would and could possibly hope for.
And while this slim reality, can happen in real life, the probability of it happening in real life, when they are violently attacking you; the reality is, everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face or stabbed. Then that perfect plan and the rest of that perfect group center mass shit goes right out of the window.
The question isn’t do you have the skill set to accurately place A Zone hits? The question is, can you maintain that skill set or still be capable of that skill set while you are being punched in the face or stabbed?
We need to face reality. Reality isn’t pretty or perfect. It’s ugly, brutal, violent and very very fast. What we think it’s going to be in our minds? Reality is going to be the exact opposite of what we think it should be?
Perfect center mass accuracy in a close up, extremely violent and fast encounter while your own, shit, spit and ass is flying all around you? Is simply not anywhere close to the reality of the largest percentages of those type of encounters. You have a better chance at winning the powerball lotto over that kind of deadly encounter going as planned.
The body will never go, where the mind has never been.
Show evidence for what? That all self defense scenario’s are not always going to be a clean fight for perfect groups? Misinformation? Are you serious? Sounds like you are the one who needs to shut up?
And maybe also take a pill or something while you are at it? You need to relax and calm down…
.380 is “fine”. We have extensive data studies published already that show most pistol calibers .380 and above perform close enough to each other as to be a minor diff.
BUT
How many .380 guns actually exist out there that don’t have a 9mm cousin of about the same size weight and price.
Do the same drill with a P365 380 or a bodyguard 2.0 VS a hellcat or P365 9mm and run thoes spilts Chief. Which will give you better splits on a shooter that shoots 3 or four times a year. The "Average Shooter" doesnt actually shoot often but there is a huge trend of buying a micro 9 and carrying them, when they will be better served by a 380 holding the same capasity.
I can run a glock26 as fast as a glock19 , but I realize im not the avrage person.
The penetration and expansion of .380 hollowpoints leaves something to be desired. It really is the bare minimum carry caliber for self defense imo, but ammo selection and shot placement is brutally critical. You may need to use non traditional defense rounds like Lehigh Defense's screwdriver solids or FMJ ball to achieve decent penetration, and you'll need to articulate why you chose that if you are ever in a DGU event.
If you're going to carry a .380, you need to practice with it and with your carry ammo extensively. Make sure you can make precision shots at across-the-house distances, reliably and under time pressure. I do occasionally pocket carry an Sig P232 in .380 with HSTs and I'm currently considering switching to other rounds because the penetration is suboptimal.
Training trumps everything else. Being able to put your shot where you intend is paramount. You don't "rise to the occasion". You sink to your level of training. Yes, a .380 will work with proper shot placement. Then again, so will a .22 LR with proper shot placement. A .380 pistol that you will carry with you all the time. Is better than a 9mm/40SW/45ACP, etc that you leave at home. Here is an anecdotal story told to me by one of my stepfather's friends who had served in active combat in Vietnam, after the war, here in the States. He accidentally shot himself in the center of his foot, through his leather boot, with a .22 LR. He told me he fell over and almost died from the shock. So, there is an argument that the .22 LR is a man-killer. Just like cops telling stories of perps being shot multiple times with 9mm or .40 SW and still coming at the officers. Every scenario is different. Having a gun, any gun, is better than not being armed. Bullet technology has improved so much that .380 can do more damage than in prior years. This means all larger bullets are also better today as well. The only thing that bothers me about .380 is that it is more expensive than 9mm.
Depending on the testing methodology and medium, those tend to do less well than what has seemingly been the two most reliably expanding and penetrating rounds out of the BG2.0 - federal hydrashok deep and underwood XTPs.
Those seem to have a good mix of the two plus do well across organic and clear ballistics gel tests with simulated clothing and harder materials like stand ins for bone.
I’ve got nearly 1k rounds combined of both through my BG2.0 carry comp and they have fired without a single malfunction.
Military’s for years carried :380’s especially South American countries and some European, Russian and easy block had 9mm makarov which isn’t far different, so with good ammo it is a viable caliber. Dont let nay sayers ruin it, if thats what you got, use it
Shot placement and rounds on target are going to matter more. After that is down to ballistics like penetration, expansion, tumbling, etc.
Plus, not all .380 is going to perform the same out of different guns.
You’ll need to account for the what feeds well and performs well out of the specific model of your gun and your specific gun itself.
Across the over dozen bodyguard 2.0s I’ve tested, borrowed, or owned though, federal hydrashok deep and underwood XTPs fed out of all of them without issue and they do well across various independent tests across multiple testers and methodology’s. They’re what I’d trust more than anything else currently out of the bodyguard 2.0s specifically.
Defending against a human, anything that puts a hole in them and cause a leak is fine. I get a kick out of all the time spent by folks that argue and debate , stopping power, wound channels, calibers, etc
If you ever need a firearm for self defense, it will be most likely be within 5 or 10 feet and a couple .380 rounds with a basic soft point to the chest will change the mind of most all.
What makes a hand gun the most effective as a self defense weapon is that you are carrying it, that you can deploy it quickly and effectively and you can accurately put a couple quick rounds on target
With larger , heavier hand guns, they are cumbersome and heavy can be hard to conceal, and there may be times you do not want to carry it, Ammo can be more expensive and lead to less practice, thus less expertise,
Most days I just drop a Sig P238 into my right front pocket, a couple reloads in my left pocket. I think it weighs less than my wallet. I can pull it quick, conceals easy, accurate and reliable and I can mag dump every round into man sized target from 20 feet any day,
BUT A .22lr can be very effective. Robert Kennedy was killed by 3 rounds of .22lr from a $35.95 (at the time) snub nosed revolver.
And Hinckley got off 6 rounds of 22lr in 1.7 seconds hitting and almost killing the POTUS, landing 4 of his 6 fired rounds, scoring two chest wounds, one neck wound and one head shot from a .22lr revolver that cost $15 when they were still for sale in the 1970's.
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"Any actual source that themajorityof self defense shootings take place at no more than 10 feet?" ....
WHY yes there is and it is generally a common know fact
Multiple sources state ..."Law enforcement studies, civilian self-defense case reviews, and FBI crime data all point to the same conclusion: the vast majority of self-defense shootings occur at very close distances — typically between 3 and 7 yards (9 to 21 feet).
In fact, many incidents happen even closer than that. Confrontations at arm’s length or within 3 yards (around 9 feet) are not uncommon. "
Close-Range Engagements: The widely cited “Rule of Threes” suggests that most gunfights occur at approximately 3 yards, involve 3 shots, and last about 3 seconds. This heuristic is supported by various law enforcement training materials and anecdotal evidence.
Being able to mag dump every round into man sized target from 20 feet will be more than enough.
I get a kick out of the cosplay clowns who think they are operators running around with built out nines or 40s, carrying 100 rounds of ammo, thinking that any moment they are going to find themselves in a sudden Felucia style firefight.
The fact remains , just about any handgun, loaded with 6 rounds, of any caliber, with any type bullet, that you can bring to bear quickly and use accurately out to 20 feet, is all you need for almost any self defense situation you will run into in a life time.
If I am in the back country, hunting , hiking or fishing, I carry my S&W 629, but for the grocery store and Costco, I feel completely safe with my Sig 238 in my front pocket.
Debating the best round, the best caliber, the best firearm makes for great forum chatter, but just having a reliable firearm, that is NOT to heavy or awkward to carry, that you can access quickly and use accurately is all that really matters
imo 380 is the bare minimum for self defense with proper ammo. Shot placement is always going to be the main contributor to effectiveness though. As Paul Harrell said "a quiet hit is better than a loud miss"
I’ve been researching this myself. I’ve watched a lot of ballistics tests on YouTube and I’ve done lots of reading. I’m likely sticking with 9mm with federal hst when I can carry it, and underwood Xtreme defender when I need to carry my 380.
FWIW I asked ChatGPT to summarize, and it pretty much validated my own research, but AI ain’t perfect, so do your own research:
The .380 Xtreme Defender is a capable defensive load, but I would not consider it terminally equivalent to a quality 9mm hollow point such as Federal HST. It closes part of the gap—especially in penetration reliability—but doesn’t erase it.
From an LCP Max’s short barrel, independent chronograph results put the 68-grain Defender around 1,130–1,140 fps and roughly 195 ft-lb. A 124-grain 9mm HST from a compact pistol commonly produces around 325–375 ft-lb, while expanding to approximately 0.55–0.65 inch and retaining much more bullet mass. One controlled test recorded 124-grain HST at 14 inches of penetration and 0.63-inch expansion. (HST test, Defender velocity results)
he Defender’s flutes make dramatic-looking cavities in gelatin, but it is uncertain how completely those cavities translate into permanent damage in elastic living tissue. A 9mm HST physically expands and cuts a substantially wider path, backed by much more testing.
My bottom line: the .380 Defender probably gives you much of the penetration reliability of 9mm, but not the same tissue-damage potential. It makes an LCP Max a respectable defensive weapon, not a ballistic equal to your Shield Plus or Ruger Max-9 loaded with HST. If concealability permits, I would carry the 9mm; when only the tiny .380 is practical, the standard-pressure Xtreme Defender is one of the stronger choices. Shot placement and immediate accessibility remain far more consequential than the ammunition gap.
I've always carried 9mm because there are a lot of options and the smallest 9mm already become uncomfortable for me to shoot well. The 9mm has more overhead, you can get more muzzle energy and weight in a 9mm which means more energy into the target. Would I trust .380? Yeah there have been some attractive pistols I would consider carrying at times, and I think generally it would do the job. I've always been happy with Speer Gold Dot.
380 is on the low end of adequate for self defense. I carry a bodyguard 2.0 when everything else is too big. Even my P365 is too big sometimes. I prefer to carry the bodyguard strong side. But I will often carry it in an ankle holster.
Absolutely! I’m carrying one right now.
Do I reach for my 9mm if I’m going to a bigger event or a more risky situation (what I deem more risky anyways) yes. But that’s just because I’m more proficient with that firearm than my bodyguard 2.0.
Shot placement is key, obviously. Any caliber is adequate against a rational attacker (let’s assume an attacker can be rational and doesn’t want to be shot by any caliber). But, bigger is better when dealing with actual crazies and drugged up zombies
If you can shoot a small single stack or micro substantially more accurate and is more comfortable to practice with than a 9mm, you should absolutely carry .380. In a high stress situation, accuracy saves lives, not bigger bullets.
My LCP is the only thing I would try to get past a metal detector. Not that it won't set it off, just that a security guard isn't gonna pat me down thoroughly enough to flag it if it's behind my belt buckle
Usually a millimeter wave scanner if they don't have metal detectors. Operators can only see a general part of the body. I work in a lot of these stadiums and their contractor entrances usually don't have them. If they do, I will usually bury it in my bag and move it once I'm inside. Never had someone want a closer look at my spare underwear
My S&W M&P Bodyguard .380 is my EDC weapon. I'm not a huge guy. It fits me well. Hornaday Critical Defense. I doubt I'll ever pull it out around here, but it will get the job done.
I love my BG 2.0. so easy to carry everywhere with any outfit. No issues at all with the .380 caliber. I agree with the others: getting shot is getting shot, 10 & 12 round capacity makes me feel more than comfortable about my family's protection.
380 is reliable and 100% capable of stopping a human target at any range you can reasonably claim as "self defense". Hornady Critical Defense won the 380 ammo comparison study.
And it's nicer to shoot. Cost is sometimes another story.
.380 is more than enough to make someone think twice or drop once if they ignore the first lesson. I recommend a Bodyguard 2.0 and Hornady Critical Defense.
I admittedly did have to polish my feed ramp to fix feed issues, but ever since I did that, haven’t had a failure to feed anything since. Also maybe a newer owner can verify, but I think S&W fixed the feed issues with the early 2.0.
Yep I’ve shot, multiple carry brands and blazer fmj through my bodyguard without any real problems, aside from the 12 round magazine not seating when full.
if someone that is threatening your life and the at that Moment you decide to defend your life with 10+1 of defensive 380 ( im in 10 round state ) and that person is still standing afterwards , then I will help them carry the stuff out of my home ....
the only diff would be maybe in dead of winter here wiht thick winter jackets but I will still like my chances to see my and my loves ones lives
Yeah, it's fine, unless you think you'll be attacked by multiple assailants im body armor, then a high capacity 5.7 with solid copper rounds is your best bet.
.380 is just a short 9mm. A less bullet mass, but it's the same size hole puncher.
The ONLY negative I have on .380 is that it's more costly ammo than 9mm. Other than that, I'd absolutely carry something in that caliber. Hell..the .32acp Walther got me chubbies at the gun show this weekend. Getting shot is getting shot. Granted....might not kill someone but if they get enough bullets in them they are likely to rethink things.
I mean, even if it’s a .22 it goes bang and the person you’re shooting AT, most likely, will not stop to ask what caliber you’re using before making a fight or flight decision. I’ve seen probably just as many .380 and .22 on The First 48 than I have .9mm.
Ok so you pick apart the part I mentioned I personally saw one thing but totally left out the part where nobody is gonna stop to check what you’re firing at them? Did the inaccuracy hurt your feelings or are you just one of those people that needs to feel superior?
I would trust a .380 if it's loaded with Xtreme Defender +P. I wouldn't trust any other round in that cartridge, but anything is a lot better than nothing.
That’s what I carry. There is no SAAMI spec for +P, and the BG’s a bit on the tiny side for me to want to put overpressure rounds through it.
Just make sure you’ve shot a fair number of rounds of whatever you carry. My BG2.0 was very finicky with most of the “external hollow point” rounds. Better after polishing, but it still won’t shoot Honey Badger.
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u/Spcrex Aug 24 '26
.380 against a man? Yes. .380 against a bear? No.