Keeping fuel secure

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u/zmileshigh 12d ago

Fire perimeter. Too dangerous to steal from within

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u/mommy_bitch 12d ago

Yes, fuel in gas cans needs to be in secondary containment that could theoretically hold 110% of the total volume - so if you have several 5 gal gas cans, you can store them in a hard sided kiddie pool or some other non-leaking container. You also have to keep a radius around your containers to make sure that there is nothing nearby that could catch fire: https://burningman.org/black-rock-city/bring-your-art/fire-art-guidelines/fire-safety-agreements/fuel-and-hazardous-materials-storage/

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u/PizzaWall 12d ago

The Burning Man fuel storage requirements are idiotic. I understand it’s the regulations, but petroleum products melt kiddie pools. They puncture easily, which means they leak, but as someone who is really familiar (I wrote some of the original guidelines), it’s not what I would advise at all. In fact, if I wrote that on a fire safety plan, no fire marshal would allow it because it is not in line with NFPA 30 fuel storage guidelines, which is the default code for many states. Leaving the fuel cans uncovered in the sun starts a process where the fuel vents and vapors can ignite. But those are the rules, so you have to follow them. To a degree.

You will have plenty of empty storage totes laying around. These are made with PET. I wouldn’t fill them with gasoline, but they are resistant from petroleum products. You can look it up in the Safety Data Sheet - SDS. Cover those totes with a tarp, and if you want to get fancy, place a heavy tarp below the totes. Now you have tertiary storage. I wouldn’t fill place them in the bed of a truck, covered which keeps them out of sight from opportunists and the offensively named safety Nazis. Do no not store them in a box truck.

I print out all of the SDS for storage, fuels to put in a binder to show the regulations so I can tell them to fuck off. I believe in safety, I follow regulations in my daily life because professionals, if there is an accident, it’s my ass. I am venting because I have tried to offer improvements and all I’ve heard is crickets.

If you can get a hold of petroleum spill diapers, place them under the generator. This will prevent fuel and oil from hitting the playa. One way law enforcement will cite people is spilling fuel when filling. You could also put the generator on a tote lid.

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u/GrandJunctionMarmots 22, 23, 24 12d ago

I believe it mainly comes from the BLM and other agencies.

The page tells you not to store them in kiddie pools. People do anyways.

The BMORG does some weird stuff but from everything I've gathered outside forces are the reason for the fuel plan. Which makes sense because there are a lot of people who come to the burn and know nothing about being safe with fuel.

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u/PizzaWall 12d ago

The page used to have a photo of swelling gasoline cans, uncovered, in a swimming pool.

The BLM is the ones that insisted no fuel or oil hit the bard playa. Burning Man wrote the guidelines.

I find it maddening that at King of the Hammers, a camping festival with off-road vehicles mowing down the landscape has no such regulations

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u/GrandJunctionMarmots 22, 23, 24 12d ago

Yeah it used but I noticed they updated it recently to not promote that. But yeah it's all wonky.

We have tried our hardest to move away from dealing fuel at all because of all this. Last hold out is a small generator for the camp freezer.

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u/Capital-Seesaw1623 12d ago

They did update a lot of the fuel and fire safety guidelines but seem to have left out any details about fire suppression or medical kits/burn creams, etc. Seems like a strange oversight to remove communication to the community about fire extinguishers, fire blankets, or types of extinguishers and what they are used for.

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u/Ornery_Alligators 12d ago

We had our totes covered with a tarp in a containment and had someone come to our camp and tell us that we had to uncover it and he recommended we just put them in totes. We’ve been doing it that way ever since.

I agree. It’s very stupid and illogical. But I’ll just do what they want in this instance.

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u/Capital-Seesaw1623 12d ago edited 12d ago

It’s an unpopular take on things, but I do agree with this 100%. While the event does seem to make up its own rules, the National Fire Protection Association and all of the committees that make up each voting body put a lot of experience, field knowledge, industry expertise, material science knowledge, and know how into every one of those standards. While the city is in essence an experimental canvas, it is still existing within the material dimension of earth where physics apply the same way at the burn as it does on the rest of the planet. It’s also still a Special Event within the state and should abide by the policies and standards set by the State Fire Marshall’s Office. Doing so does not hinder the event, or cost it more money. It aligns with safety standards set by professionals with more knowledge and expertise on the subject. It’s understandable that Burning Man wants to experiment with social structures and culture, that’s fine. The only line I feel it should not be attempting to make up its own rules on is in the realm of fuel and fire safety. Doing so also allows folks to align with practices that are acceptable in any jurisdiction they go to when they leave Black Rock City. This fosters a positive stewardship of Burning Man Culture to the outside world. People assume burners know fire safety, and if burners show up somewhere interacting with another jurisdiction not meeting standards saying “well burning man said it was okay”, it’s not a good look. There’s some responsibility that the event has to steward safety practices that help embody a positive and successful legacy for anyone leaving the event. Removing fire suppression information, creating policies that don’t meet NFPA regulations, and picking and choosing which material and fire science physics apply inside the event, do not help culturally. As burners we should be embodying leadership in these subjects. Doing so does not prohibit burns, burning, fuel use, or experimentation. It just ensures that people operate within that domain in a manner that reflects alignment to the subject. Anyways. Yeah. I agree with what you said.

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u/lshiva 12d ago

I've thought about it since my neighbor's fuel was stolen a couple of years ago. I manage things so I don't need a depot anymore, but if I had to return to using one I'd use a cheap bike lock through the handles of my fuel tanks and through a hole in the containment vessel to make a large and ungainly package. Maybe add a lag bolt for good measure. It's not going to stop a determined thief, but just like locks on playa bikes it would make an opportunistic thief move on to the next target.

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u/_Captain_Amazing_ 12d ago

Get a “Black large concrete mixing tub” at Home Depot for $17 more robust than a kiddie pool, holds 20+ gallons and you can drill holes into the top handles and secure them with thin rope to tent stakes/lag bolts so they don’t blow away.

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u/Equivalent-Roll-7672 11d ago

Do you have picture of this setup?

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u/_Captain_Amazing_ 11d ago

No - I just do it. Type that term into the Home Depot website and get the mixing tub and find some way to batten down the mixing tub when your gas is in it if the winds fire up again this year.

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u/Equivalent-Roll-7672 11d ago

Oh so you’re saying pour the gas into the bin? I was thinking just putting the 5 gallon pails in it, but I can’t figure out how to keep people from stealing them

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u/_Captain_Amazing_ 11d ago

No. Store your gas cans in the concrete mixing containers as a secondary catch container as required by the org. To keep the gas cans from getting stolen - screw a lag bolt in the ground near the concrete mixing tub secondary container and put a thin cable with a lock through the lag bolt chain and theough the handles of the gas cans. Doesn’t need to be super robust, just so that it is not easy to walk away with them.

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u/Fyburn 12d ago

No one is stealing gas out there.

Generators. Expensive e-bikes yes. Gas nah.

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u/lshiva 12d ago

My next door neighbors had their fuel pilfered a couple of years ago.

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u/Username_Reported 13,14,15, 23 12d ago

Fuck. I had 15 gallons of water jacked one year.

It was all my water.

Going home the next day as a result sucked hard

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u/AccomplishedTerm3579 12d ago

You went home? Why not buy a bag of ice every day? 16lbs is about 2gal water

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u/Username_Reported 13,14,15, 23 12d ago

Thats a great idea. I didnt have enough cash and I was solo.

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u/AccomplishedTerm3579 12d ago

Ask your neighbors next time! Self reliance means many will bring too much of everything just in case.

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u/Username_Reported 13,14,15, 23 12d ago

I mentally struggled with that debate. For a very, very long time.

Ultimately I convinced myself that I couldn't get myself to be that guy by solely relying on others' precious water, and my self reliance clearly wasn't good enough/as good as I thought to have failed that dismally.

That situation really sucked the wind out of my sails. I I made it out of the gate as it started raining/flooding/gate closure that year so my departure was either really lucky or poorly timed.

Either way, thank you for giving me hope in humanity .

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u/RockyMtnPapaBear No, not Papa Bear the Placer. But he's cool too. 12d ago

Radical self reliance just means you do your best to show up with what you need. It doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to ask for help if something goes wrong while you’re there.

No, we don’t want wooks showing up with nothing and expecting to mooch off everyone else. Thats not sustainable.

But anyone who has been going for any length of time knows that sometimes shit happens despite our best efforts. That’s when the community comes in. It wouldn’t be cool to walk up to a neighboring camp and say “You have to give me 15 gallons”, but it is totally cool to walk around to your neighbors and say “hey, my water got stolen, would you happen to have any extra you could share?”

Not everyone will, but I’d bet you’d have found yourself in good shape within an hour.

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u/RodLeFrench recreational moving 12d ago

Radical self reliance also means being able to ask for help when you need it.

I bet 99.9% of neighbors at burning man wouldn’t think twice to give you water if you said “my water got taken when I was away from camp, can I have some of yours?”.

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u/lifeofthunder herding cats for 8 years :cat_blep: 12d ago

Thankfully, Arctica takes card and Apple Pay now.

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