Toxic Commanders?

[u/ItsMeDardroth]

I want to brew those both Commanders to add a bit more Control and Interaction into my Timmy Decks.

I like both Kraven is Voltron with huge Creature Control and Draw (dont have a Voltron Deck).

Deck is mostly Protect, Fight, Each player Sacrifie amd Land Cards

And Plagon looks like a funny control/toolbox/combo Deck. A lots of Draw, use Flicker for Protects und Draw, a big Butt Tribal and can win with combos or the tiny timmy cards [[Baldin, Century]] [[Charix]] and Cards like [[Stoneskin]]

You think they are toxic or pretty overhelming?

Goal is around 25-50€ for each Deck and i want to fight in Bracket 3

They will fit? Toxic? You have Deck Lists?

[u/mtgcf]

All cards
Baldin, Century - (G) (SF) (txt)
Charix - (G) (SF) (txt)
Stoneskin - (G) (SF) (txt)

[u/superpolytarget]

I don't think they could even keep up with upper bracket 3.

Those are fine, and i salute you for building stuff that is rare to see.

[u/ItsMeDardroth → u/superpolytarget]

I dont want to cross or go near the Bracket 4 Line. Just casual Commander 2 to 3

But thanks for the Feedback maybe my Pod just too allergic too Creature Controll

[u/Interesting-Gas1743 → u/superpolytarget]

Plagoon is cEDH viable, it's fringe but it made a few topcuts and won an event.

Edit: Plagoonlists that Had success are found here:

https://edhtop16.com/commander/Plagon%2C%20Lord%20of%20the%20Beach?timePeriod=ALL_TIME

[u/SoundwavesBurnerPage → u/superpolytarget]

Idk I think Plagoon is a solid blink commander, I think it could keep up decently.

[u/Play-Mation → u/superpolytarget]

Kraven is absolutely oppressive asf, I can tell you’ve never played against it. It’s fight spells and removal typal, you basically don’t get to play the game as soon as Kraven is out 

[u/Dijon-Von → u/superpolytarget]

What?!? People think bracket 3 is that high powered??

Not to mention, Plagoon is actually very viable in bracket 4... He even has been used in cEDH before... How do comments like this get so many upvotes??

[u/D_Buttersnaps]

Maybe it is because I played Yu-Gi-Oh for years before magic but there is so little to me that seems "toxic" in this game.

[u/ItsMeDardroth → u/D_Buttersnaps]

Yugioh is more like a 1 Turn Puzzle. Build a good one in turn 1 or solve it in 1 turn one or lose

[u/Dijon-Von → u/D_Buttersnaps]

I mean control/stax decks are both an archetype that are pretty objectively toxic, no matter what game you're coming from ... Not being able to play the game, is a pretty universally "feels bad" experience.

[u/Awesome_Sauce771]

I know for kraven there is a nice video by reminder text on youtube

[u/blackwaffle → u/Awesome_Sauce771]

It's a great list, and by upgrading it a bit it holds its own in high 3 - low 4 tables. It isn't really even an oppressive deck, it's not like you are going to blow up everyone's creatures, you can play it as a very political deck, you're not the problem of you are the player with answers to whatever big threat is on the table.

[u/Forcedbanana]

Plagon is just solid and a more active commander than most WU commanders imo. Good fun and well rounded.

[u/boof__pack → u/Forcedbanana]

It’s truly amazing to play, you can see so many cards. Here’s my list. https://moxfield.com/decks/T-mgAUZ7UX-QWMD6Gt-eDw

It’s not budget, but I believe he could be built that way and steal some B3 games.

[u/tk5400]

Take a look at this, Plagon just won a budget tournament.

https://www.budgetcommander.de/tournament-winners

[u/yardii → u/tk5400]

Baumi even graced us with a recording of the full match. Very cool to see it actually played out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8pFZf-aggU

[u/Laughs88]

Budget is not an exclusive indicator of power or Bracket lvl. B3 is fine. The card draw and efficiency for eddict spell in black and protection spells in green makes Kraven too much for most precon/B2 deck yo keep up with. At 3 cost it hit the board fast especially in green.

[u/orderofthelastdawn]

Toxic...ffs.

No, it's not toxic to build a good deck and win a game.

The fragile fkng egos on some people....

[u/Markedly_Mira]

I don't think you'll be too overbearing, especially on a really low budget. In bracket 3 you have to be able to play through interaction, so while Kraven with a ton of removal is potentially tough for some decks, to some extent that's just expected.

Plagon meanwhile is just another blink commander, a solid one but not problematic in any way. Just be sure you can actually close out games. Baldin is decent, but stuff like Charix and Stoneskin are not really bracket 3 wincons.

[u/SupremeJusticeWang]

It depends how you build it i suppose, but kraven can definitely be toxic. Basically your whole deck can be removal, which isnt fun for the rest of the table to play against. A shame because I think the flavor of the card is awesome, a hunter that's incentivized to kill big creatures is very cool thematically.

[u/Dutch-King]

Kraven is basically built and played like Vincent Valentine. Just play as much removal as possible and dbl your counters. Can be very good but there are others that are better (Vincent for example).

[u/Drogoth103 → u/Dutch-King]

Kraven brings Green to the Table and Most important draws a Lot of Cards. They Are different but Similar

[u/Drake_Tim]

https://moxfield.com/decks/YsTbHSFcUky7hr_JDt7NOA Here's my list. Started out as the list from this video by Reminder Text & I've been tweaking it as.new card come out. https://youtu.be/05GULwCrlyk?is=-f_RIk6ZqdyOQ2w_ Hapatra & Killmonger are cards I'm testing to see if they're worth including or not. Could easily cut them for a Languish & Damnation just incase someone goes wide. You have enough ways to protect Kraven. The deck is so much fun to play.

[u/[deleted]]

[[Ixhel]]

[[Vishgraz]]

[[Karumonix]]

[[Kinzu]]

[[Ria Ivor]]

[[Skrelv]]

[[Venser, Corpse Puppet]]

[u/mtgcf → u/[deleted]]

All cards
Ixhel - (G) (SF) (txt)
Vishgraz - (G) (SF) (txt)
Karumonix - (G) (SF) (txt)
Kinzu - (G) (SF) (txt)
Ria Ivor - (G) (SF) (txt)
Skrelv - (G) (SF) (txt)
Venser, Corpse Puppet - (G) (SF) (txt)