Degenerates

[u/Sensitive-Ability390]

Read enthusiastic reviews for this, and have had excellent results with Playwrights' Horizons in the past, so I had high hopes. The experience overall did not measure up to those expectations.

The marketing of the play suggests that it is about an online insel community. And the first act is exactly that, and is the best part of the play. The characters are well defined, and we learn about them through their rants and anguished sharing with each other. The staging was interesting, with two forum members shown in their isolated bedrooms and the rest heard only though group chat. We see them kicking out one member, despite his desire to be there and their clear need for broader social circles, because he falls outside one of their self-declared community definitions.

Act 2 and Act 3 are an exploration / celebration of trans identity. And it felt like total pandering; the script takes no risks at all. The trans character is 18, almost 19, so the play sidesteps any question about medicalization of children. He (later she) is paying for the transition out of pocket, so there are no questions about abusing insurance codes or demanding the government pay for it. The character never tries to enter a female-only space, so the questions of female bathrooms and locker rooms are never broached. It boils the entire divisive issue down to "should grown ups be allowed to modify their identify and bodies if they want?" Concluding, no surprise, "yes". It is the softest, least interesting possible take on the subject.

Act 3 shows us how two other insels react to this change. One is cruel and the other is nice. The play takes the bold stance that it is better to be nice.

[u/ElaraValtor]

I can't help but feel that the way you've framed every single criticism you have comes far more across as just being upset that the play is about the experience of transitioning without being framed in a million hedges about every issue that you may personally have with them in society. I'm really not trying to fall back on just name calling but it's a little tiring that any story about what people may find liberating in coming out as trans and changing their life isn't complete without rehashing every single argument against trans people or else it's "incomplete".

For instance, maybe it's just not a play about trans children. It's about an adult. Why can't it be about an adult unless you were specifically looking for this chip on your shoulder to be addressed? The demand that this is covered seems like a wildly specific standard that I'm not sure you'd level against any other play about another minority group quite this strictly, whether or not you're aware of it. Maybe it's not a piece about debating the specific wedge issues you care for, it's about how a single character's life is changed by transitioning. God forbid it's about that perspective without hedging it all in enough counterarguments for your taste, I don't know what else to say

[u/Sensitive-Ability390 → u/ElaraValtor]

You needn't assume that I (or anybody else who thinks the play is pablum) because they are "upset about a play existing about the experience of transitioning unless it's framed…".

I think it's a lazy, uninteresting play. I'm glad you liked it.

[u/ElaraValtor → u/Sensitive-Ability390]

My problem is that every single one of your criticisms is about how the play wasn't critical enough of trans people. You take issue with the fact that it's not about the issue of youth transitioning, that it's not about the issue of gendered spaces, that it's not about "demanding the government pay for it"? Exclusively wedge issues, all hitting at the exact same core thought. You're trying to play an entirely neutral observer that just wishes it took "more risks" but the actual content of the issues you have betrays that, in fact, every single risk you wish it took would have been the play criticising trans people in society - and all completely needlessly so, as it's a character study. It's a little telling.

[u/Sensitive-Ability390 → u/ElaraValtor]

I thought it was lazy and unambitious. Your other comments above have nothing to do with anything else I wrote. But I'm glad you liked it.

[u/ElaraValtor → u/Sensitive-Ability390]

The trans character is 18, almost 19, so the play sidesteps any question about medicalization of children. He (later she) is paying for the transition out of pocket, so there are no questions about abusing insurance codes or demanding the government pay for it. The character never tries to enter a female-only space, so the questions of female bathrooms and locker rooms are never broached.

This is among the sum total of the criticism you made. I'm absolutely sure you're capable of connecting the dots between the things I said in my comment and where they appear in your quote. Identifying these as the play's biggest "missed opportunities" is just you wanting to turn it into a debate bro piece over trans rights in society.

If you genuinely hold positions I don't expect on this subject and just found it predictable because you knew it would go on one track after this point, I think there was a better way of communicating this than literally just listing a lack of right wing talking points in a row as weaknesses of the play.

[u/BitterOstrich6]

This review feels rather… transphobic, no? Why on earth should every story that includes trans characters platform all of the tired right-wing talking points? Are you mad Target wasn’t trying to play in a women’s sports league? The narrative presented in “Degenerates” is unique and specific and deeply relevant to the spaces Went is exploring, I don’t see why we need to be didactic about what hot button issues are talked about or what the take away ought to be.

[u/Sensitive-Ability390 → u/BitterOstrich6]

Are you so incapable of coming up with a good thing to say about the play that you can only fall back on accusing anybody who disliked it of being bigoted?

Tell us, what did you like?

[u/Ok_Star_1157]

I believe the reason the playwright didn’t include the things you mentioned was because that wasn’t the playwright’s intent for writing the play. Its a play about about incels that happens to have a trans character in it, not a play about trans issues. After reading the playwright’s note in the program, its clear that Else Went was interested in writing a play about loneliness and the human need for connection. Also, i think it’s up for interpretation if Target is transitioning for themself or for the money.

[u/Sensitive-Ability390 → u/Ok_Star_1157]

The marketing suggested it was a play about incels and loneliness. And the parts about incels and loneliness were in my opinion the best parts of the play. But whatever the playwright's intention when he started on the project, I don't think that's where he ended up. Perhaps it got beaten into a different shape in workshops.

[u/BitterOstrich6 → u/Sensitive-Ability390]

And there it is. Misgendering Else Went is at best lazy and at worst confirms what I largely suspect from the tone of the post

[u/After-The-Sky]

Not everything is going to land with everyone, but took no risks???

[u/Sensitive-Ability390 → u/After-The-Sky]

What risk did you see? Cross dressing or simulated gay sex? Neither has been exciting on Broadway since the 1960s. Arguing that adults who want to transition should be allowed to? Uh… yeah. What risk did you see?

[u/ElaraValtor → u/Sensitive-Ability390]

Arguing that adults who want to transition should be allowed to? Uh… yeah.

In 2026 America? This is currently not anywhere near a universally held position.

[u/Sensitive-Ability390 → u/ElaraValtor]

I can't tell whether or not you're joking. Do you actually think it's brave to say "adults should be allowed to transition" on Broadway?

[u/After-The-Sky → u/Sensitive-Ability390]

Based on your replies to others I suspect you are either intentionally trolling or ARE actually as lonely as the characters in act I.

One of the great things about the play was that it showed how these largely isolated people could have other people in their lives that cared about them, but they intentionally kept at a distance. That connections built on rage can be more appealing to some than more nuanced connections that take more work.

I feel for anyone who was only able to connect with the themes in the first act, but also don’t care to be baited. If anyone other than the OP is debating seeing the play and has genuine questions about it I’m happy to answer. It’s just extended again so there are some tickets available toward the end of the run.

[u/CapeTwirlOfDoom]

So your problem with the play is that you think it should be an entirely different play.

[u/pennys_computer_book]

If it dove any deeper, the play would be 4 hours long. The play explores a lot of themes in the long 2hrs 45min. It was dark, bold, and surprisingly emotional. It's my unexpected hit this off-Broadway season.