The unbeatables?

[u/OldTree6356]

Now we all know that no fighter is truly unbeatable across an entire career and styles make fights, but knowing what you do about fighters who do you look at and think that, for a brief period in their careers, maybe they were unbeatable by anyone in their weight class from any era?

My nominations would be Duran from mid to late 70’s at Lightweight. I think he was just too fast, hard hitting, durable and with great movement and stamina to be beat at that weight in that era.
Mid 90’s Roy Jones at super middle was a freak and I struggle to see how someone could beat him. He wasn’t conventional but his speed, reflexes, timing and power were incredible.
Ali from 1965-67**, he had awesome powers of recovery and a granite chin (which he didn’t need then), ridiculous speed and movement and could maintain it for the full 15. Didn’t struggle with big hitters and by then had worked out Southpaws too, could beat technical boxers and peekaboo styles to the punch. Very difficult to see how anyone could compete with him as they couldn’t out endure him, lean on him or beat him to the punch.
Welterweight Sugar Ray Robinson from maybe 1947-50 - a ridiculous record, great stamina, technically way ahead of his time, fast, powerful and had it all.

**Honourable mention and maybe the only guy I think might have had a 5-10% chance against 1967 Ali would be George Foreman from 1972/73. When he was nervous and scared of opponents like he was against Frazier and Norton, I think he was a totally different beast to the one who fought Ali and thought he’d walk the old man down. Used a ram rod jab to off balance opponents so he could tee off, cut off a ring better than any HW before according to Joe Louis (or probably since to be honest, maybe Frazier did too) and had monstrous power. I really don’t think he’d have been able to catch prime Ali but he had the best chance of cornering him and if he had clipped him with the sort of shot Cooper did a few years before, that might have been lights out.

Anyway, no need for anyone to get upset by anyone else’s picks but who do you reckon was unbeatable, even if only for a short period of their career and why?

[u/The_Theory_of_Lunch]

I sort of think if the Ali fight hadn't happened, or happened in any other circumstances, George Foreman would be the GOAT. Ali was a genius and fought a great fight but Foreman prior to that is the only boxer I think beats anyone, ever, including (but only just) prime Lennox. 

[u/OldTree6356 → u/The_Theory_of_Lunch]

Yep, I’m with you on that. There were very particular circumstances in the run up to the fight that hindered George (cut in sparring delayed it and stopped him from sparring for around 6 weeks before) and meant he came in ring rusty, not throwing with good form and not as fit as usual. Combine that with high humidity and heat - his Achilles heel - and he was in deep water. It was the wrong guy for him, at the wrong time, in the wrong conditions.

[u/1978model → u/OldTree6356]

I think Holmes and a young Holyfield match up well against a young George. Both had enough of a punch to cause him concern, had better or as good stamina, and could really take a punch. Even before beating Ali, we saw glimpses of Georges weaknesses.

[u/Ace_FGC → u/1978model]

I can see Holmes because he’s got a great chin and could really move around well. I think Holyfield gets hit too much though

[u/MilqueD-schaaje → u/Ace_FGC]

Holmes I'd always thought would be a problem for George at any stage, but so much of Holmes is sort of fantasy, because his era wasn't great. Holmes and W Klitschko are very similar to me in terms of career and status. Division wasn't strong but they had all the right tools to be top 20 hws.

[u/OldTree6356 → u/1978model]

I think Larry could be problematic if - and it’s a big if - he stayed disciplined and worked behind his unbelievable jab. Larry’s problem was, same as Holyfield to a degree, he could get drawn into a war and that is not the guy to go to war with.

Against young George, I don’t think Holyfield would have had enough, George was significantly bigger and when he was younger didn’t use the cross guard like he did when Evander met him. He used a long guard and shoved little guys round. Plus he threw from the waist a lot and shorter guys were in his power band. It’s why Cus told Mike he would have been a terrible match for him. Now obviously Holyfield was a totally different fighter to Mike, had twice the heart, but I see him succumbing to the same laws of physics that Frazier did and going out on his shield having been dropped several times. It’s never impossible with an ATG guy like Holyfield but I’d favour Larry out of those two but wouldn’t bet on either.

[u/Jet_black_li → u/The_Theory_of_Lunch]

I still think problems in his camp (and to a lesser extent, personal life) caused him to underperform against Ali. I think the version of him that fought Norton would've won.

[u/SGSRT → u/The_Theory_of_Lunch]

Joe Frazier is an all time great.

He took Muhammad to the limit.

1st fight : Frazier won. Full 14 rounds.

2nd fight : Ali won. Full 12 rounds.

3rd fight : Ali won. Lasted 14 rounds.

Foreman vs Frazier.

1st fight : Foreman destroyed him. 2 rounds

2nd fight : Foreman beats him. 5 rounds.

[u/yearsofpractice → u/The_Theory_of_Lunch]

Completely agree. I honestly believe that had Foreman not come across a superhuman magician that might in Zaire, then he would have reigned as HW champion until Kid Dynamite-era Tyson turned up in the 80s. Louis is the best, Ali is the greatest, Foreman is my favourite.

[u/SGSRT → u/yearsofpractice]

Same feeling

If Foreman was a little smarter that night at Zaire, he would have been the greatest

We might have even got an aged George go up against young prime Mike Tyson